The cost.

[Broch]

Yep, I really am persuaded to go and buy that Rolex Oyster GMT-Master now (at £29,550) because it tells the time so much better than my Timex (not), it's more robust (not), it's more waterproof (not) and they are much more ethical (not). Oh, and I would be supporting the Swiss economy (why?) instead of global including the Swiss. The only thing that's stopping me is they look so ugly!

 

[Toddy]

 

[GuestD]

Yep, I really am persuaded to go and buy that Rolex Oyster GMT-Master now (at £29,550) because it tells the time so much better than my Timex (not), it's more robust (not), it's more waterproof (not) and they are much more ethical (not). Oh, and I would be supporting the Swiss economy (why?) instead of global including the Swiss. The only thing that's stopping me is they look so ugly!

Don't forget the waiting list. Oh, and the Wilsdorf Foundation is a registered charity.

 

[Janne]

Really? I would like to see some evidence backing up that claim Janne! What do you mean by cleaner anyway? You mean like we wash more? If you mean a cleaner environment, I think you may find that we are kidding ourselves. I think you will also find that we have replaced the idea of being 'mucky' with a false cleanliness - polluting the planet with toxins we cannot possibly remove from the environment but are on the whole 'invisible' because we can depose of it and forget about it - NIMBY at its best. Most of the plastic waste circulating in the sea now has been produced in the last 15 years of our long life on this planet.

Diesel could be seen as one of the worst polluters of them all and how many diesel fumes are in the world now compared to 1945? 200,000 flights a day in 2019 compared to.... what - the very earliest signs of a commercial airlines coming into existence in 1945?

Blood dripping from a meat carcass in the butchers is NOT A PROBLEM. That could be seen by some as unclean? Micro plastic is now in every living organism on earth, including ourselves, who yes as a species could be considered very clean!

To keep it short:
Vehicles today emit a tiny fraction of pollutants compared to the past.
Far more vehicles today, but far less total pollutant.
Diesel oil was full of Sulfur,
Petrol was leaded.
Agriculture spread huge amounts of chemicals, including DDT.
Most people threw rubbish around, around roads, while bushcrafting.
The collected rubbish was deposited in open dumps, or, ( a London specialty,) dumped in the (North) Sea

Aircraft today have engines that are clean burn, and quieter. No black smoke after those new engines.

River Thames is a good example of a modern success.
City air is much, much cleaner. No smog. No coal smoke.

( In -45, much of Europe was poisoned by the chemicals resulting from the around 5 million tons of explosives used in WW2.
Buy recycling rate was good.)

I think Europe was at its low in early 1970 or so.

 

[Janne]

Apart from the price ( and probable future value increase) one benefit with the Rolex is that, as most mechanical watches, it will last your life, and your childrens life. All it needs is a service as recommended ( a kind of benefit as it creates work)
Benefit two - no plastic components.
Benefit three - no battery needed ( environmental aspect)

Btw, they cost under 8K?
Your example is the full gold version.

No watch is ‘water proof’ but ‘water resistant’
Timex maybe 10 Atm. Designed but untested.
Rolex GMT is also 10Atm, but tested to this pressure plus 10%.

 

[santaman2000]

Those of us who have quietly and contentedly reared children who have grown into adults we not only genuinely like, and love, but are proud to say that they are part of the solution, not the problem, would really take umbrage at that statement.

The children are pushing for change, are changing their own behaviour, and doing their damnedest to clean up the mess we've been making....much like our generation cleared up the pollution of the Industrial Revolution.
It's a new Revolution, one clearing up the plastic one.

M

I believe It’s those of us who’ve raised children into quality adults that should shout that statement the loudest. That said, I wasn’t just speaking of environmental sensitivity when I said it.

 

[Broch]

Apart from the price ( and probable future value increase) one benefit with the Rolex is that, as most mechanical watches, it will last your life, and your childrens life. All it needs is a service as recommended ( a kind of benefit as it creates work)
Benefit two - no plastic components.
Benefit three - no battery needed ( environmental aspect)

Btw, they cost under 8K?
Your example is the full gold version.

No watch is ‘water proof’ but ‘water resistant’
Timex maybe 10 Atm. Designed but untested.
Rolex GMT is also 10Atm, but tested to this pressure plus 10%.

Believe the hype if you like. I have mechanical watches that I have had for decades and they still work - I didn't even spend £1K on them nor would I ever. I wouldn't even pay the service price of a Rolex for a watch There are many, many, watches you can buy with no plastic parts, mechanically wound, tested to dive rating, for a fraction of the price. You can also buy that weight of gold for a fraction of the price. Put the two together and you're buying a badge or just bragging rights (IMHO )

But you've re-enforced my point very eloquently; we all have things we think are worth spending money on but half the time, in my opinion, it's standard 'purchase justification'.

 

[santaman2000]

Does anybody even wear a wristwatch anymore?

 

[Janne]

Oh yes.
Absolutely!

Every day!

 

[GuestD]

My daily wear wrist watch is a Soviet era Zim. Like this,

A Ukrainian gentleman charges me £18 plus post to service it.

The Rolex "thing" is consumerism at its worst. I am not ashamed to own up to having one, it cost less than £200 in the 1970's, £40 more than a Seiko diver at the time. I know because I still have the price lists. In those days Rolex was not a component of conspicuous consumption, it was a well made tool watch. I also have one of the very first Timex Q electro mechanical watches, which I bought new. It still goes, and keeps good time, despite a lifetime of abuse. It was £140 less than the Rolex.


With regards to ordnance dropped in world war 2,
"It is estimated that over 7 1/2 million tons of bombs were dropped on Indochina, the vast majority on North Vietnam. Compared to less that 2 1/4 million tons in all of WW2, and the 1.5 million tons dropped on Germany and it's held territories in Europe."

add in Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc, etc. The info is there, if you can be bothered to look. War, and it's pollutants has never ceased. Air pollution ?

https://ourworldindata.org/air-pollution

 

[Janne]

Believe the hype if you like. I have mechanical watches that I have had for decades and they still work - I didn't even spend £1K on them nor would I ever. I wouldn't even pay the service price of a Rolex for a watch There are many, many, watches you can buy with no plastic parts, mechanically wound, tested to dive rating, for a fraction of the price. You can also buy that weight of gold for a fraction of the price. Put the two together and you're buying a badge or just bragging rights (IMHO )

But you've re-enforced my point very eloquently; we all have things we think are worth spending money on but half the time, in my opinion, it's standard 'purchase justification'.

What hype? I stated known facts.
But those are not Rolex specific. All Quartz movements ( no matter where they are made) contain plastics. Environmentally very unfriendly batteries.
It is advisable to service a mechanical eatch, just as a car engine. I do not follow manufacturers recommendation, I follow a 10 year interval on my watched

Modern synthetic oils do not oxidaze as the old organic oils, but they still migrate away from the areas where they should be.
The watches I immerse in water I have tested each year for the WR.
Cheap insurance.
Rolex is surrounded by an incredible amount of hype. But the product is good.
But, because people believe in the hype, some of their models go up in value.

Check out the value of a Daytona, S/s case, silver dia, the Zenith movement.
The latest version, with Rolexes own movement, has also started to go up sharply. Again, S/s, silver dial.

Do I think they are worth the money? No. Not as new, not as used.
Omega, sadly, are inching into the Rolex price range now.

There are more interesting watches out there. Swiss JlC.
German are even more interesting.
Sinn. Stowa. Laco. Nomos
In the expensive level you have the best watches in the world, ALS ( sorry, Patek!) which are far better value than similarly priced Swiss watches.
GO.

 

[Broch]

You really are making my point for me Janne

 

[Janne]

Deekin, your Timex, is it the Tuning Fork movement?
My first Omega ( given by my parents for the Confirmation) was a Constellation f300.
Still have it, but a water ingress damaged it so I had to send it back to Bienne. Works beautifully.
It has the Bulova / Omega branded movement.

Rolexes were first class ‘working’ watches in the past. Still can do the hard work, but are status symbols now.
( just like a Range Rover..)

Check out the value of your old Rolex!

The Russians made good watches, the Czechs too. Prim.
I have a few Prims, plus a few Poljots and Slavas.

https://brilliantmaps.com/uk-us-bombs-ww2/

The Soviets dropped or fired (artillery, rockets) a huge amount of explosives, probable more than the American and Brits.

The chemical remains of the Soviet explosives are still detectable in the areas they flattened. No clue about influence on organisms though.

The chemical effect US bombings and Agent Orange ( specially) are still felt in Vietnam.
Bith on plants and animals.
Huge number if cleft palate/lips sufferering children are birn each year.
Sweden, a long time Vien Nam friend, operates ( operated?) a hospital where these defects are corrected surgically and orthodontically

The link you posted shows clearly that Europe and N. American air pollution is dropping sharply. Just as I wrote. Excellent link.

As I wrote, 90% of the plastic crap is introduced into the oceans by a few rivers. 8 in Asia, two in Africa.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/
Our efforts and money ( us in Europe and N. America) would be more efficiently spent if we helped stop that plastic ocean pollution. Of course, we need still to improve our use of resources, and recycling where we live..


To go back to the origial subject,
Recycling old stuff
Buying quality, longlasting new stuff made by companies where environmrnt friendliness/ sustainability is a priority
Learning to use a few items only

This is important.
Not the cost in Pounds, Shillings and Pennies.

To expensive to buy today when you fancy it? Save and buy in a couple of months. You might not even want it by then!

That is what our forefathers and mothers did. They were happy too.

 

[GuestD]

Regarding Rolex,


https://blog.crownandcaliber.com/rolex-submariner-watch-prices/

use a period currency converter, and you'll see how (relatively) cheap they were.

 

[santaman2000]

My daily wear wrist watch is a Soviet era Zim. Like this,

A Ukrainian gentleman charges me £18 plus post to service it.

The Rolex "thing" is consumerism at its worst. I am not ashamed to own up to having one, it cost less than £200 in the 1970's, £40 more than a Seiko diver at the time. I know because I still have the price lists. In those days Rolex was not a component of conspicuous consumption, it was a well made tool watch. I also have one of the very first Timex Q electro mechanical watches, which I bought new. It still goes, and keeps good time, despite a lifetime of abuse. It was £140 less than the Rolex........

A Timex was usually my watch of choice back when I still wore one. Seiko was my choice for classier wear although I never found any difference in reliability.

Back in the 1960s Times had a series of tv commercials demonstrating their ruggedness. They featured dramatizations such as cliff diving with one, waterskiing, putting it in a dishwasher, attaching it to an arrow and shooting a target, and assorted others. They always ended by holding up, the watch for the audience to see the watch was still running perfectly and the announcer saying, “Takes a licking, and keeps on ticking.” Usually they also asked, “What time is it” just before holding it up for the audience to see. This waterskiing one is representative of all the others:

HOWEVER! The best one was one in which they attached the watch to the bottom of a circus stool then had an elephant stand on said stool. When One announcer asked, “What time is it?” the other retrieved the watch and replied, “Time to get a new Timex.” I wish I could find that episode.

 

[Janne]

Regarding Rolex,


https://blog.crownandcaliber.com/rolex-submariner-watch-prices/

use a period currency converter, and you'll see how (relatively) cheap they were.

I do not have to, I remember them. Cheaper than many Omega, less ‘image’ than Omega and Longines.

Smart marketing!

Check out the value today of your old Rolex.

Topic;

Of course we all buy into the hype and brand recognition.
All of us, be it ‘little spenders’ or ‘big spenders’

Why do people here buy a knife that is more expensive than a basic Mora?
In many cases, hugely more expensive?
And - to be truthful, why buy a Mora when you can have a chinese clone for much less?

Or - even worse- why buy a special, handcrafted knife for outdoor use?
Only because a guy that makes a fortune through tv programs tells you to?

Why, when you already have at least one knife, fully functional, in the house?

See the point? We all buy stuff, because it is fun. Not a neccessity.

For most of my treks up unyil age 19( 1-2 weeks in the forests close to the Swedish-Norwegian mountains) I carried standard clothes I used normally, including the Grönlands jackan.
After my premature retirement from the Army, age 23, my issued Army stuff mixed with the everyday stuff. Plus the same old, waxed now, Grönlands jacka.

Had two knives. A Mora, ( Classic called today) and a EKA 60 as a backup
The specific outdoor stuff I bought the best I could get, no matter the expense. Saved, worked extra in the weekends.

I still have most of it, 40 years later.
Buy the best, no matter the cost. Disregard ’brands’. Think before you buy.
Learn to use what you have, adopt.

You do not need an axe, a saw and multiple knives with you.
Only the shop where you buy them wants you to think so.

 

[Tengu]

So, the answer seems to be to consume less, and buy less clothes.

I do not clothes shop (Car boots and I find stuff or folk give me stuff as they know I will use it until it wears out) I have some nice kit which I cherish and look after. I also, oddly enough, for someone who buys an estimated one or at most two new garments a year, (probably my beloved Marks and Spencers underwear which is comfy and lasts a long time) have far too many clothes....

Of course, according to the Green companies I am doing it all wrong and should give up my fleeces and buy the latest fad in the antilabel clothing.

Like a now deceased relative, who had lots of negative things to say about my dressing, and how I should not be wearing the latest in unethical labels (All second hand, and all to be worn until they wore out...Funnily enough, some of the most nicest and robust things I have are those labels) I got that lecture so many times.

(They should have gone and lectured the Chinese factory workers on how much better off they would be going back to their farms, yes?)

(And of course the joys of DENIM! Bring on the Revolution, comrades!)

Anyhow, you will want to know what this person wore. They ordered lots of stuff from the cheap nasty catalogue, (No idea where this stuff was made, but at that price it must have been pretty dodgy) and it looked cheap and nasty. (I never dared say this and I am a scruff.)

(I am so scruffy I had to become an archaologist...)

To ensure fit...and this is the clever bit that we should all emulate, they bought several sizes, generaly about three. The ones that didnt fit would be returned. But this person was too busy to repack and go down the post office.

When they died, we found several wardrobes packed with brand new cheap rubbish. It had not been returned. We did not count...think of several shelves worth of tightly folded items.

You will understand we were pretty unpopular with the local charity shops that month.

 

[Toddy]

(I am so scruffy I had to become an archaologist...)

I'm sure Dave, Robbie, myself and the others thank you for that comment Tengu
I'll have you know I field walked wearing Lowe Alpine triple point ceramic
Everything else ended up a sodden soaked through mess

Most modern clothing is deliberately pretty disposable. Built in obsolescence and fashion changes drive that on.
I'm old enough now to not fuss with fashionable but aim for comfort and pieces I find I like.
Hard for the young not to fit in though, and not everyone has a bushcrafter's (or archaeologist's) quirky fashion sense, or confidence.

M

 

[Keith_Beef]

Does anybody even wear a wristwatch anymore?

Yes, almost every day.

 

[Herman30]

Does anybody even wear a wristwatch anymore?

Of course!