The Amish as a source

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Andy BB

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
3,290
1
Hampshire
But these events are noteworthy because they are so exceptional

Agreed. Or should I say, they were exceptional because they were actually reported to the police and made public? From everything I've seen and read about the Amish, they tend to keep their issues within the community, and rarely call in outside help.

I guess I just find it rather interesting that a bushcrafting site like this one - whose members are, on the whole , fiercely independent and protective of their right to do what they want to do without let or hindrance - should find this type of autocratic, limited and stifling way of life so fascinating, however bucolic it might appear on the surface!
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
To me, the removal by force of a hugely-important symbol - as I believe the beard is in their culture - is violence by definition. And it wasn't just beards - they also cut the hair of both men and women.

"Several members of the group living in Bergholz carried out the attacks in September, October and November by forcibly cutting the beards and hair of Amish men and women and then taking photos to shame them, authorities have said."

Not violent? I think most would beg to differ....

Their beards are NOT symbolic. They have them because to shave would require personal vanity and a mirror (which WOULD be symbolic of personal vanity) Both of which are abhored by the Amish.

As to the reports of force, I frankly have serious doubts about their authenticity (merely because it is so out of character for the Amish) but I won't dispute them (merely because I wasn't there) IF!! And I do mean IF!! they are true, then it is unlikely that whoever perpetrated such acts are still allowed within their respective communities.
 

ReamviThantos

Native
Jun 13, 2010
1,309
0
Bury St. Edmunds
No community is perfect however some are more perfect than others and given the balance of consideration, on what I have seen of several "communities" albeit in a limited sense, theirs is considerably more towards the better end of the scale than the one I currently find myself a part of. Perhaps this says more about myself than them.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,422
614
Knowhere
I feel sorry for the children. Never get to see the world, experience other cultures, choose their own partner, speak their own mind, discover the infinite wonders of science, see the sea, scuba-dive, sail a boat, ride a motorbike, or otherwise enjoy all this magnificent world and civilisation has to offer.

But they make pretty quilts, so thats ok then......

Rumspringa notwithstanding?
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
Oh, Im in favour of the Amish

But Im also in favour of this new fangled thing called `Progress`

I have little personal experience of the Amish so am loath to comment but....
Back in the 80s a friend and I led a Student Conservation Association program trail building on the Appalachian Trail. 8 kids 16-18 living up the hill in a camp for 5 weeks and working on a section of trail. It was quite an experience for all of us. We had one Amish lad with us and he gave me a fair insight into both the pros and the cons of the life. Maybe he was at that stage of deciding whether it was the right life for him or not as most of us question the life we have been brought up with when we are that age.
He told me that with regard to technology when any new invention came along the elders met and talked long and hard about whether this development was actually beneficial to society or not. Now it may or may not work in practice but I find the thought of a group of wise old souls taking that decision interesting, as against our system that says, does it pay? and is it against any current law, no? then we will do it.
The lad concerned was the only one of our group that came to us with basic skills, could light and maintain a fire and cook on it, basic camp hygiene, use tools, build structures, get on with people etc. In fact so much so that my co-leader ended up giving him a job.

I do find the use of the word cult rather loaded.
 

Charlz9mm

Forager
Jul 1, 2012
121
0
USA
To put the cultural issues to bed I would say that one must look at the Amish the same way we look at tribes in the Amazon. There is much to learn, much is strange but they have a culture that must be respected (barring law breaking). They neither need nor asked for our approval. Their skills are priceless if the grid went down as are Amazonian tribal skills if lost in the rainforest.
 

Andy T

Settler
Sep 8, 2010
899
27
Stoke on Trent.
I know very little about the Amish and so i've found this thread very interesting. One small point, if they shun all modern technology what did they use to take the photographs of the members they had shaved ?
 
Nov 29, 2004
7,808
22
Scotland
I know very little about the Amish and so i've found this thread very interesting. One small point, if they shun all modern technology what did they use to take the photographs of the members they had shaved ?

I don't know.

However they do not shun all modern technology, you can read the 'Ordnung' link above for more details, new technologies or devices are subject to a 'review process' to ascertain whether or they might encourage the wrong kind of outlook, thoughts and actions.

So a phone in your house - no

A phone in an unlocked outbuilding or barn - yes

An electricity supply from the 'outside' world - no

Gas bottles to heat an animal barn or workshop - yes

All very odd to us, but it works for them, mostly.
 

Biker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Gotta say I love the whole concept of taking a certain pride in something you've made for its form and function. I'm not a big fan of unecessary embelishing or decoration. Saying that though carvings are a whole different ballgame. Another style I like is the Shaker style furniture, clean and smiple lines on that too, whereas Baroque furniture is the other end of the scale. Pig ugly. Clever, but just too much. Gothic style is nicer but in a way another example of the maker just showing off. :lmao:

Seeing that the Amish ethic seems to be form and function yeah we could learn a lot from them, and in some respect their whole lifestyle. There's a lot of positives about being in a community that actually cares for it's own.

Interesting post. Thanks.
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,691
710
-------------
Some Amish do some very nice woodworking.
Plus I don't know about anyone else here but there's something I like about using handtools to make things.
I suppose it depends on pricing and so on as productivity is (or at least can be in the right hands) far higher with powertools but I remember an old joiner who lived close to us having a waterwheel powered workshop. I went round his workshop as a kid and was fascinated by all the belts across the place and the water powered tools. He managed just fine.

Can't remember him carving any spoons though...
 

bronskimac

Forager
Aug 22, 2011
124
0
Dundee
At first glance a simple community lifestyle is very attractive. But realistically, for me, there would need to be several modern gadgets to survive:
Electricity (locally generated)
Internet, probably (still need my hit of BCUK)
Tractor and ploughs or at least a rotavator
Locally produced fuel for the tractor/rotavator

For farming it would be nice to use a horse or horses to plough, harrow, haul trees etc. Not sure at what scale horse power gives way to tractor in terms of time for tasks, acreage in a given time and cost of running. As a kid I remember a plank saw running with belts from a tractor. Perhaps the tractor could be used for electricity generation too?

Wind and Ground source heat pumps (my favourite) could also be used for electricity.

The first year would only be practical if there was money/stocks of foods and fuel to keep the community going until crops come to harvest. If we have a season like this one the security of our crops would be in grave danger. If the woodland is large enough to sustain harvesting for our needs and provide a surplus, then logs sales will bring in cash.

A sustainable woodland is probably the best solution for fuel.

Ideally we will have a collection of artisans why can shoe the horse(s), beat metal into usable shapes, build our beds, tables and chairs. More likely in the early days we will either have to muddle through or use money to buy in the skills/products.

My gut feeling is that a self sustaining community has a minimum number of members and a maximum, largely based on the land and woodland size.

So whose putting up the land and woodland?
 

BillyBlade

Settler
Jul 27, 2011
748
3
Lanarkshire
Mnn, yes.

Why dont we all aspire to live that way?

And yet, I don't. Sorry if thats not 'bushcrafty' or in the spirit of things.

I have a personality, and a free will, and a desire to experience new places and cultures. I also enjoy contact physical sports and one on one competitions with the same, both competing (although, it's at senior level now, and thats more about age than skill!) andwatching the same.

I will also protect my family. to mine or others death if I have to, from outside harm.

I also admire technology, and the pursuit of understanding. But then I'm Scottish with an engineering degree, and come from a small nation that has given the world more than I could ever list here. See link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries

All in then, I'd make a pretty rubbish Amish.

Not for me.
 

Dreadhead

Bushcrafter through and through
it seems everyone is completely ignoring the mods here. to get back on track a little does anyone know what firelighting tools they use as im curious if they use matches or fire steels etc. and perhaps what sort of knives they might use? they are not buying rambo knives off the shopping channels so would imagine they use fairly traditional styled knives probably passed down through their community
 

sandsnakes

Life Member
May 22, 2006
983
13
68
West London
Interesting lot the Amish.

Pal of mine and his wife were the doctors to a local community, it got a bit problematic when there was only one telephone per community and that was in a box in the middle of the street... no one could be bothered to answer it!

From the observations of Graham and Whitney the Amish sort of live in both worlds as they will trade with comunities who deal in more modern goods, so its not the utopian world that many wish for and of course who is going to distill the kerosen for the lamps?

Given there stand point the Amish have a rich cultural and well researched body of useable herbal knowlege that covers everything from medicine to meat preservation. W&G were invited to lots of pig slaughtering parties which were hard to endure, also could not wear buttons on there clothing when visiting, or zips for that matter. When visiting they wore long grey coats which made them look like extras in a vampire move! When I asked Whitey, who was a Plain Quaker, if she could live the life she replied 'hard, cold, tough, long hours and the shoes areawful'.

They do have a very strong sense of community so indivduals who fall on misfortune do not go hungry and the old are cared for. They said if you think of a turn of the century (1901) farming community that would be about what it was like. So if your interested look at the TV programs Victorian and Edwardian farm


Sandsnakes
 
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rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
it seems everyone is completely ignoring the mods here. to get back on track a little does anyone know what firelighting tools they use as im curious if they use matches or fire steels etc. and perhaps what sort of knives they might use? they are not buying rambo knives off the shopping channels so would imagine they use fairly traditional styled knives probably passed down through their community

Matches, zippo lighters, they use candles but also coleman lanterns and paraffin lamps. They don't shun technology par se, they are just a lot more selective on what technology they embrace.
 

Dreadhead

Bushcrafter through and through
cheers Rik. i thought they would have taken a more sustainable approach what with their ideals but maybe im not getting it clearly. also wonder about their methods for woodland management id like to think they use teams of 2-3 with axes and hand saws
 

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