The Amish as a source

[ex-member BareThrills]

I would imagine there is always a tendency to portray the most positive outlook when TV cameras are there and you never really know what goes on behind closed doors. Overall i thought they seemed happy enough and the younger generation seem a little more liberal

 

[Tengu]

They are an ok bunch, if rather narrow minded.

Im sure theres lots we could learn from them; but they just think it ordinary.

Probably they think what we regard as ordinary as strange and marvelous.

 

[Charlz9mm]

People who don't appreciate beauty wouldn't put all the work into the elegant simplicity of their quilts, or their basketry, or their buggies
I think it's more akin to making a good job of making things. Items that look 'right' clean, tidy, organised, practical. Content in things well made, not pride.

A bit like BR or others who look at the shelves of home made produce and the jars shine like jewels; that's satisfyingly organised, seasonal work, and it has an intrinsic beauty that those who just run to the nearest supermarket will never appreciate.

cheers,
Toddy

Better said than I did. Thank you.

 

[Charlz9mm]

They are an ok bunch, if rather narrow minded.

Im sure theres lots we could learn from them; but they just think it ordinary.

Probably they think what we regard as ordinary as strange and marvelous.

They have many social problems that get them attention from the law. Still they have preserved a way of life that would have been otherwise lost. They are a living museum in a way.

 

[Andy BB]

I feel sorry for the children. Never get to see the world, experience other cultures, choose their own partner, speak their own mind, discover the infinite wonders of science, see the sea, scuba-dive, sail a boat, ride a motorbike, or otherwise enjoy all this magnificent world and civilisation has to offer.

But they make pretty quilts, so thats ok then......

 

[Tengu]

Me too, the same way I feel about all those primitive kids you lot so admire...

 

[Charlz9mm]

..probably because we're too individualistic to have every facet of our lives controlled by a dictator (which is, in effect, what the elders in these cults are)....

Oh I like that. Well said. They are trapped. The cost of leaving the Amish community is great. One loses, family, income, faith, friends. Once they leave they blunder into a world they don't understand.

 

[santaman2000]

I feel sorry for the children. Never get to see the world, experience other cultures, choose their own partner, speak their own mind, discover the infinite wonders of science, see the sea, scuba-dive, sail a boat, ride a motorbike, or otherwise enjoy all this magnificent world and civilisation has to offer.

But they make pretty quilts, so thats ok then......

Actually when their children turn 16 they're sent away to experience the outside world. Usually a few months to a year of almost total debauchery before they choose whether or not to return.

 

[Charlz9mm]

One major point they truly showcase in their world is that it is difficult to survive without community. The skills, crafts, etc. are meaningless if their is no one to carry you out of the woods if you break a leg. They get this. This forum is a community which I have learned much while lurking. I am grateful.

 

[Mesquite]

Actually when their children turn 16 they're sent away to experience the outside world. Usually a few months to a year of almost total debauchery before they choose whether or not to return.

Interesting... I'd not heard that before about them. I wonder how many actually return.

 

[Charlz9mm]

Actually when their children turn 16 they're sent away to experience the outside world. Usually a few months to a year of almost total debauchery before they choose whether or not to return.

Not all communities do this. The ones here do not.

 

[santaman2000]

Didn't I read somewhere that some of their stricter members been beating up and beard-shaving some of their members who weren't quite orthodox enough? Big court case in the USA if I remember correctly.

Beard shavings, yes; beatings, no. No violence invilved. They are often the victims of crime because they refuse to fight back or even resist.

 

[Toddy]

and they learn to be capable adults, they learn to thrive in a community that supports itself, that cares for it's disabled, it's elderly and infirm. No unwanted children, no unwanted, uncared for old folks mouldering with neither respect nor dignity in anonymous care homes.

They make good, able farmers who don't despoil their lands with pollution, they are excellent craftsfolks and if their way of life was so un satisfactory then why do over 80% of their young become full communicants and participants within their traditional lifestyle ? Their youth are allowed, indeed expected, to run wild for a while, so they do get a chance to see what's outside their communities.

There are those who would argue that while our lifestyles are untenable long term, their's certainly is. Population control might become an issue in the future though, but I'm sure they'll manage to address that in due course. Their society isn't static or frozen, it just moves at it's own pace and shuns politics and outside control, and there are shisms and divides among them enough to mean that their choices are current, and not locked in like armed cults.


Okay then, Mod hat on.

We have had complaints about this thread.
I will reiterate the rules, "No politics, no religion, no racism", and ask that we all pay heed.
So far we've been pretty good, but it might be better to concentrate on the OP's idea and maybe focus on the skills they have that might be relevant to 'this' community instead of criticising their social structure.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[sandbender]

"...I feel sorry for the children. Never get to see the world, experience other cultures, choose their own partner, speak their own mind, discover the infinite wonders of science, see the sea, scuba-dive, sail a boat, ride a motorbike, or otherwise enjoy all this magnificent world and civilisation has to offer..."

That pretty much goes for ninety odd percent of the children on the planet.

However the Amish have a period for 'adolescents' refered to as 'Rumspringa'. Which (and it varies from community to community) will allow a young Amish man or woman to experience all of those things (and more) for several months or even several years eventually either choosing to remain in the world of the 'English' or return to their communities.

 

[Tengu]

Oh, Im in favour of the Amish

But Im also in favour of this new fangled thing called `Progress`

 

[santaman2000]

Not all communities do this. The ones here do not.

Would you see it if they did? The ones I know of send their children to big cities out of state.

 

[rik_uk3]

Oh, Im in favour of the Amish

But Im also in favour of this new fangled thing called `Progress`

They live in a stable community, family support, next to zero crime et al so perhaps they have progressed more than us.

 

[santaman2000]

They live in a stable community, family support, next to zero crime et al so perhaps they have progressed more than us.

Partly true Rik. They don't COMMIT crimes but their lifestyle often makes them targets of outside criminals. Robbers/rapists love to break into Amish homes because they know they won't resist and have no phone to call police. we always got calls much to late to help actually them; we could only investigate after the fact (not that that's uncommon with the rest of the population)

 

[Tengu]

Mnn, yes.

Why dont we all aspire to live that way?

 

[Andy BB]

Beard shavings, yes; beatings, no. No violence invilved. They are often the victims of crime because they refuse to fight back or even resist.

To me, the removal by force of a hugely-important symbol - as I believe the beard is in their culture - is violence by definition. And it wasn't just beards - they also cut the hair of both men and women.

"Several members of the group living in Bergholz carried out the attacks in September, October and November by forcibly cutting the beards and hair of Amish men and women and then taking photos to shame them, authorities have said."

Not violent? I think most would beg to differ....