The Amish as a source

[sandbender]

"...also wonder about their methods for woodland management id like to think they use teams of 2-3 with axes and hand saws..."

Perhaps they do.

However there is no reason for them not to use a chainsaw, the problem for them would be if one individual owned a chainsaw and others were forced to borrow it, a community owned selection of chainsaws would possibly be ok.

"...Modern technology is used selectively by the Amish for fear that it may weaken the family structure...Anything which could promote sloth, luxury or vanity is strictly prohibited...a new technology can be considered into their society once it has passed a rigorous examination...A proposal may be accepted for business reasons, but never for personal wishes, for entertainment or for self indulgences..."

A machine that can cut timber for selling - yes
An ipad to check my facebook page - no

"...Amish dairy farms have discarded the metal milk bucket and three legged stool in favor of an automated milking system. The Food and Drug Administration and the United States Department of Agriculture demand that certain guidelines be followed before milk can be marketed. Thus, power equipment and refrigerated bulk tanks are a necessity and are thereby permitted. However the electricity needed to run a modern dairy must be produced from gas or diesel generators. This is more expensive than power line electricity, but lacks the degree of intrusion on Amish values and households that would result if fixed-line external power were used..."

"...In farming, horses are used to pull wagons, buggies, and agricultural equipment. Gasoline engines may be allowed to run the machinery but horses are required for locomotion. The Old Order Amish are permitted to use modern transportation as long as they don't own or operate the equipment..."

A tractor to plough my fields - no
A taxi ride for a particularly long journey - yes

Ordnung

 

[Corso]

from what i've read they are also big into preparedness - they are expected to store atleast a years worth of supplies

 

[santaman2000]

cheers Rik. i thought they would have taken a more sustainable approach what with their ideals but maybe im not getting it clearly. also wonder about their methods for woodland management id like to think they use teams of 2-3 with axes and hand saws

What you have to grasp is that their lifestyle isn't about "sustainability." They choose it for religious reasons. Hope I'm not violating forum rules here; just pointing out WHY they live the life they do. Please don't ask me (or anyone else) to explain their beliefs. I'm sure that WOULD violate rules; even IF any of us were knowledgeable enough to explain it (which I doubt. I know I'm not)

 

[santaman2000]

I know very little about the Amish and so i've found this thread very interesting. One small point, if they shun all modern technology what did they use to take the photographs of the members they had shaved ?

As others have said they don't shun technology per se. However they DO shun photography specifically as they see it as a form of vanity. They go so far as to avoid having their pictures taken by tourists as well. That's another reason I have difficulty believing the reports.

 

[Dreadhead]

What you have to grasp is that their lifestyle isn't about "sustainability." They choose it for religious reasons. Hope I'm not violating forum rules here; just pointing out WHY they live the life they do. Please don't ask me (or anyone else) to explain their beliefs. I'm sure that WOULD violate rules; even IF any of us were knowledgeable enough to explain it (which I doubt. I know I'm not)

cheers for clearing that up for me. i wont ask any more as mods have said keep it on bushcraft related track

 

[santaman2000]

from what i've read they are also big into preparedness - they are expected to store atleast a years worth of supplies

No. Again you're confusing them with Mormons.

 

[rik_uk3]

No. Again you're confusing them with Mormons.

You beat me to the reply lol.

 

[santaman2000]

Thee communities I have experience with (limited experience) were in Ohio and Tennessee. It was fascinating to see them plowing with teams of horses. I mean I grew up plowing a small kitchen garden with a horse. It's all we used. But thet was a SMALL kitchen garden with a single horse hitch. The first time I saw the Amish was as one of them was plowing a field of at least 200 acres with a team in Ohio.

When in Tennessee I was told about how before they were allowed to have a telephone (a single telephone to be shared as has been said) they would knock on neighbors' doors (non Amish neighbors) to use the phone for emergencies. The horses they use are chosen for their suitability fot their individual tasks; the plow horses are obviously draught horses whereas the ones pulling their buggies are generally retired harness racing horses which they can buy cheaply.

 

[Toddy]

So, after three pages worth do we think they have much to offer bushcrafters ?

Tbh, I don't really think so, though we do find their craft skills interesting, but then we find the skills of the Sammi, the bushmen, the south sea islanders, as well as those of our own traditional craftspeople, interesting.

I think Sandsnakes kind of summed it up; they are farmers following the practices of Europeans of the recent, cusp of industry, past, but who will slowly accept some innovation into their lives.
I suspect that there is a satisfaction and security within their lives and communities, but it's a hard working life, even if they do take joy in it

Tbh, I don't think any in depth discussion of them can be truly valid without the inclusion of the religious beliefs that underpin everything in their world.
However, the forum guidelines clearly state that such discussion may not take place here, and from the Mods point of view we thank you all for your restraint It is appreciated.

Anyone else ? or shall we just draw a line here ?

atb,
Mary

 

[santaman2000]

Interesting lot the Amish.

Pal of mine and his wife were the doctors to a local community, it got a bit problematic when there was only one telephone per community and that was in a box in the middle of the street... no one could be bothered to answer it!....

....Given there stand point the Amish have a rich cultural and well researched body of useable herbal knowlege that covers everything from medicine to meat preservation. W&G were invited to lots of pig slaughtering parties which were hard to endure.....

....also could not wear buttons on there clothing when visiting, or zips for that matter.....

Pig slaughterings were hard to endure? It wasn't that long ago that "hog killing" was a common communal thing among all non-Amish farmers. As late as the 1960s it was still comon in the South; not unheard of even now.

Yes they believe buttons are "proud." I can concede the notion. They use hooks instead.

 

[santaman2000]

So, after three pages worth do we think they have much to offer bushcrafters ?

Tbh, I don't really think so, though we do find their craft skills interesting, but then we find the skills of the Sammi, the bushmen, the south sea islanders, as well as those of our own traditional craftspeople, interesting.

I think Sandsnakes kind of summed it up; they are farmers following the practices of Europeans of the recent, cusp of industry, past, but who will slowly accept some innovation into their lives.
I suspect that there is a satisfaction and security within their lives and communities, but it's a hard working life, even if they do take joy in it

Tbh, I don't think any in depth discussion of them can be truly valid without the inclusion of the religious beliefs that underpin everything in their world.
However, the forum guidelines clearly state that such discussion may not take place here, and from the Mods point of view we thank you all for your restraint It is appreciated.

Anyone else ? or shall we just draw a line here ?

atb,
Mary

Just a quick question Mary. The rules prohibit debating religion obviously (and I think we all agree with that rule) But my question is are we prohibited from the occassional mention of relgious beliefs in order to clarify another point of discussion? Such as "why they do what they do?"

 

[Toddy]

Usually because it doesn't stop there

Technically this thread shouldn't have been allowed to run, however, it was a 'relatively' amiable discussion, with mostly known characters chipping in their tuppence ha'penny worth, it was in Chatter, so it was just kept a watch upon.
After three pages though.............still no skills that we would make use of have been shown and it's still focused on a group to whom religion is the be all and end all.

Clear ?

M

 

[Hoodoo]

Grew up around a lot of Amish in Indiana. There is a lot of variation from community to community. Some farm with tractors, albeit with steel wheels. I've been in their homes, ate their food, hunted their lands, rode their sleighs in the winter behind a team of horses, drank with them in bars. They put the roof on my parents farmhouse. They like to party and they drop their kids off at Dairy Queen where they change into "street clothes" and go roller skating at the roller rink. When the parents leave, the kids get the car batteries out of the barn and take them in the house and listen to rock and roll. Their parents park their buggies behind the bars when they go in, never in front. Never met an Amish person I didn't like. They don't like to lose at pool though.

 

[HillBill]

Sorry Mary, couldn't resist

[video=youtube;lOfZLb33uCg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg[/video]

.......still no skills that we would make use of have been shown and it's still focused on a group to whom religion is the be all and end all.

 

[robin wood]

Well I am glad the thread ran, I learned a little from Sandbenders and others interesting posts. It would have been nice to hear more first hand expereince of craft skills or farming practices but I guess they are a relatively closed group so we don't know so much about them. Also the photography thing obviously means no fun pics of barn raising etc on the web.

 

[robin wood]

Never met an Amish person I didn't like. They don't like to lose at pool though.

Thanks for that first hand account Hoodoo and the last sentence says it all for me, I would say the same for quakers.

 

[Toddy]

That's kind of how I felt about the thread, Robin

M

 

[Hoodoo]

Some Amish have ice houses. They run a gas driven mill for cutting lumber, and save the sawdust to cover the ice. The ice is cut from a lake in winter. The ice house covers a pit where the ice is placed and covered with the sawdust. The ice stays frozen nearly year round.

 

[santaman2000]

Usually because it doesn't stop there

Technically this thread shouldn't have been allowed to run, however, it was a 'relatively' amiable discussion, with mostly known characters chipping in their tuppence ha'penny worth, it was in Chatter, so it was just kept a watch upon.
After three pages though.............still no skills that we would make use of have been shown and it's still focused on a group to whom religion is the be all and end all.

Clear ?

M

As to the skills bit. I think the skills they have are somewhat fascinating to us, as are homesteading (crofting) and crafting skills as evidenced by many of British Red's posts et. al. Perhaps they aren't directly relatable to BC as we tend to think of it now because we're usually thinking of "beginning" or setting up campsites rather than "sustaining" and "lifestyles." That said I think their way of life is as interesting a topic as any of the aforementioned homesteading and craft threads we have discussed here. Particularly as they do it on a family or comunity level rather than an individualistic one.

 

[Hoodoo]

The Amish farm pretty much the way my grandparents did and my dad and uncle, when they were kids. Horses did all the work, although as I said earlier, some use tractors. They spread manure on their fields for fertilizer and sow wheat and oats the same way I did it when I was a kid, walking the fields and using a hand spreader.

A few years back an Amish farmer I know was complaining about the high cost of energy. His farm did not have the kind of land needed to raise much hay, so he had to buy hay from local farmers to feed his horses and livestock and because of the increased gas prices, the price of hay was going sky high and killing him. The Amish are not immune to the problems of the modern world. Horses may not run on gas, but you still have to feed 'em.