Survival whistles

[cbr6fs]

Couple of things on the number of whistles


1/ If the SAR is not out looking for you then i don't see as it really matters how many times you blow, how many hikers are going to know that 3 or 6 blasts is a emergency?

My experiences so far lead me to believe very very very few.

So as long as you make deliberate whistles enough to get someone close bys attention i don't think it really matters



2/ IF SAR are out looking for you then they know they'll be looking for a casualty, so they'll come to anyone blowing a whistle, so again i don't think it really matters how many times you blow.



For me the most important thing is that the sound must be alien enough in the environment for it to get someone's attention, the blows need to be sustained and deliberate enough for folks to realise it's not some kid playing about.


3 or 6 i don't really see any situation in the hills of the UK that it'd make a blind bit of difference.

 

[santaman2000]

Perhaps it originates in military signals. Bugles and Fifes were both used to carry above the sounds of battle in times past. Neither bugles nor fifes can be blown easily by those who are not experienced, whereas a whistle can. Whistles as a call for help seem to have there origins in the metropolitan police, but then the history of the whistle also seems inseperable from the referees whistle.

Yes, Yes, and Yes. All of those ideas sound quite logical to me too.

 

[Laurentius]

Couple of things on the number of whistles


1/ If the SAR is not out looking for you then i don't see as it really matters how many times you blow, how many hikers are going to know that 3 or 6 blasts is a emergency?

My experiences so far lead me to believe very very very few.

So as long as you make deliberate whistles enough to get someone close bys attention i don't think it really matters



2/ IF SAR are out looking for you then they know they'll be looking for a casualty, so they'll come to anyone blowing a whistle, so again i don't think it really matters how many times you blow.



For me the most important thing is that the sound must be alien enough in the environment for it to get someone's attention, the blows need to be sustained and deliberate enough for folks to realise it's not some kid playing about.


3 or 6 i don't really see any situation in the hills of the UK that it'd make a blind bit of difference.

The point is not initially to attract SAR, but to attract someone else out on the hills who will hear and understand your distress signal and alert SAR. I cannot say how many casual hill walkers know the correct signal, but there is a plethora of information out there for those who do pay attention. The purpose of a system is to distinguish the call from any random or other use of a whistle, torch, mirror or whatever and there are enough people who know to make a difference. Six is going to appear more deliberate than 3 that is for sure.

 

[cbr6fs]

The point is not initially to attract SAR, but to attract someone else out on the hills who will hear and understand your distress signal and alert SAR. I cannot say how many casual hill walkers know the correct signal, but there is a plethora of information out there for those who do pay attention. The purpose of a system is to distinguish the call from any random or other use of a whistle, torch, mirror or whatever and there are enough people who know to make a difference. Six is going to appear more deliberate than 3 that is for sure.

I've been hiking, mountain biking and doing outdoors activities on a very regular basis for around 30 years, i've not heard anyone blowing a whistle.

Not 3 times, not 6 times and not once.

So IMO there is nothing to distinguish from.

A whistle blown in a remote outdoors location should be investigated by the rest of us outdoors enthusiasts.

 

[santaman2000]

I've been hiking, mountain biking and doing outdoors activities on a very regular basis for around 30 years, i've not heard anyone blowing a whistle.

Not 3 times, not 6 times and not once.

So IMO there is nothing to distinguish from.

A whistle blown in a remote outdoors location should be investigated by the rest of us outdoors enthusiasts.

Maybe not where you hike, but you will hear whistles if you hike around bird hunters. I certainly have heard them; granted it's not as common as it was back when the wild quail population was more abundant, but it's still out there. Or if you happen to be one of those hunters.

Likewise you will hear gunshots and if you used gunshots to signal distress, you'd need a pattern that that differs from normal hunting shots.

 

[leon-1]

I'd go for this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294

but you can also get the likes of these

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aluminium-S...703562&sr=8-4&keywords=metal+survival+whistle

I own the Fox40 classic, the Sharx and the micro. The Micro sits on the lanyard for my knife sheath. The Classic sits in my daysack as a spare and the Sharx I use at work, it's impressive, we have to give people due warning that I am gonna use it so they can put fingers in they're ears. It impressed the company directores so much that they asked me to source whistles for them as well. Now nearly all of us use them.

The Fox 40 Micro is a good little whistle for it's size though, it's a three chamber whistle and looks relativley innocuous, it does however pack a fair punch at 110db, I think they are also made for AMK (Adventure Medical Kits) and the American DOD have them for their divers. The Sharx is about double the size, it's twin chamber with four resonators and very loud, it is more than twice as loud with it being 120db. Both whistles are SOLAS approved (Safety Of Life At Sea).

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I have to say that insofar as whistles not sounding when the pea is frozen, that is a myth securely busted. It still blew and it did not give me frostbitten lips either. On that basis I am content to add it to my possibles, it is built like a tank, I reckon you could run a bus over it and it would still blow.

In the interests of keeping the experiments repeatable, please remember to remove the whistle from your person before trying to see if it survives being run over by a bus

We do not have much wild land in this country, but, yes, it is dangerous even to the experienced. This is because our weather changes so much.

Guides to Britain say that you can experience all four seasons in one day.

They are right.

Don't like the weather, wait ten minutes. Occasionally you can get Wind, Rain, and snow at the same time, which livens up the afternoon...

J

 

[leon-1]

Yes, Yes, and Yes. All of those ideas sound quite logical to me too.

The British military actually trialled whistles to find out how effective they were in comparison to a normal person yelling and screaming, waving arms and the like. For a start obviously the noise carried further, secondly after 20 minutes of yelling and screaming the average person can make no more than a faint squeak. It requires less energy.

Using a whistle doesn't require the ability to walk, speak or wave arms in the air, it requires very little energy to maintain whistle blasts over a sustained period of time so is achievable even by those who are quite badly injured, if you can breath you can blow a whistle is the theory (not wholly true, but close).

The six and three combination was established back in 1894 by the alpine club and a man named Dr C. T. Dent was one of the men responsible for it.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Couple of things on the number of whistles


1/ If the SAR is not out looking for you then i don't see as it really matters how many times you blow, how many hikers are going to know that 3 or 6 blasts is a emergency?

My experiences so far lead me to believe very very very few.

So as long as you make deliberate whistles enough to get someone close bys attention i don't think it really matters

I would say that every single customer of a Deuter backpack will know. Every owner of a Swiss or Liechtenstein map. Anyone who's been in the scouts or the guides, or the cadets? I think you may find it's more common than you might think.

2/ IF SAR are out looking for you then they know they'll be looking for a casualty, so they'll come to anyone blowing a whistle, so again i don't think it really matters how many times you blow.

Disagree given that I have detailed at least one instance of a SAR team using a whistle for intra team comms. Thus if they keep the whistle blows to something other than 6 blasts, wait a minute, repeat, they can do that without false positives.

For me the most important thing is that the sound must be alien enough in the environment for it to get someone's attention, the blows need to be sustained and deliberate enough for folks to realise it's not some kid playing about.

Then 6 blasts, wait a minute, repeat, sounds pretty good to me, avoids any opportunity for a single blast to echo and create 3. Avoids some kid just blowing away. I think you are arguing in favour of 6 blasts here.

3 or 6 i don't really see any situation in the hills of the UK that it'd make a blind bit of difference.

I think this thread has presented several.

The point is not initially to attract SAR, but to attract someone else out on the hills who will hear and understand your distress signal and alert SAR. I cannot say how many casual hill walkers know the correct signal, but there is a plethora of information out there for those who do pay attention. The purpose of a system is to distinguish the call from any random or other use of a whistle, torch, mirror or whatever and there are enough people who know to make a difference. Six is going to appear more deliberate than 3 that is for sure.

As mentioned, my Deuter backpacks include a label under the lid with details of the emergency signals. This is a feature I think all backpacks designed for the outdoors should include. Really useful.

I've been hiking, mountain biking and doing outdoors activities on a very regular basis for around 30 years, i've not heard anyone blowing a whistle.

Not 3 times, not 6 times and not once.

So IMO there is nothing to distinguish from.

A whistle blown in a remote outdoors location should be investigated by the rest of us outdoors enthusiasts.

I've not been doing it for 30 years. But I have heard whistles blown when in the outdoors. Usually connected with a 4 legged fur ball bounding off into the distance.

It's not just on mountains. When I was a kid orienteering, we were given a whistle as standard issue along with the instructions on how to use it. Given we were running around parks, woodland, and the grounds of Sandringham Palace. Whistles were in common use in that environment, be it the football match nearby, or the dog walkers.

The six and three combination was established back in 1894 by the alpine club and a man named Dr C. T. Dent was one of the men responsible for it.

OOh, that's a really nice useful piece of information. Do you have a source for that one, I would like to put make a note of it in case I want to cite it in future.

Julia

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Apologies if my previous post came through garbled. Hit the wrong key and posted it while I was halfway through writing it. Have edited and it should make sense now. Well, at least as much sense as I can make...

J

 

[cbr6fs]

Have a couple of Deuter packs Julia and i have been in the Scouts, neither taught me how many blows to whistle.
Since i moved to Greece i've always have a whistle with me, it's also peaked my curiosity on who else carries a whistle and if they know how to signal with it.

Might sound a bit weird but i have asked a fair few folks over the years, i'd bet money that i've asked over 100 people, only a hand full carried a whistle and only 1 knew how many times to blow (off duty SAR).
The funny thing was several of those i asked said they didn't have a whistle yet i could see one on their sternum strap of their rucksack.


Is there much of a need for SAR around Sandringham palace?

I'm not being factitious, but your examples are not really relevant, it's like saying a whistle wouldn't be much use for signalling help needed at a football match.
Common sense stills rules supreme here, it's no good thinking a whistle of any amount of blows will be your saviour, there are other signalling methods that might be more useful depending on the environment.

As an example, if you start a fire that puts out a lot of smoke in Greece in the warmer months i'll guarantee you'll get noticed, it'll probably end with at least 1 night in a cell but then it might be better than the alternative.

It's very very rare for dog trainers to use whistles, sheep herders will whistle but it's not common that they will use whistles, usually the whistling is down by mouth or they shout abbreviated commands.
Again though why on earth would you whistle for help if you're within earshot of some sheep dog trials?


As a adult it's your responsibility to provide safety for yourself, if that means that you will blow 6 times a min that's your choice, i'm not saying your wrong.

My point is, it's better to blow any number of times than not all because your unsure.

It's also important to note that all blows of whistles are not the same, i'd guarantee that i could get myself noticed at a football match, i'd just need my whistle to be loud and long enough to gain attention.

 

[leon-1]

OOh, that's a really nice useful piece of information. Do you have a source for that one, I would like to put make a note of it in case I want to cite it in future.

Julia

I'll try to find you some clarification of that one, but the mans whole name was Clinton Thomas Dent, he was british surgeon and mountaineer. He wrote a book called above the snowline back in the 1880's when he was Vice President of the Alpine Club.

I don't like it as a lot of the information is rubbish, but if you look up his name you'll find him on Wikipedia.

 

[leon-1]

My point is, it's better to blow any number of times than not all because your unsure.

You obviously missed the point about C. T. Dent being to do with the Alpine club, which is where this comes from.

As to your point about blowing as many times as is necessary and it's better to blow a whistle than not at all, yeah that's fine.

One thing though, things may have changed since you were a scout. I have taught to scouts, army cadets, schools, local authority groups, companies and to the military. I teach hundreds of people in a year and one of the very first things that they are taught is the international distress signal using a whistle. When I served in the military I had been taught it as well and that was when I did the Mountain And Arctic Warfare Cadre. All of the guys that did JSMEL and ML knew it as well.

 

[santaman2000]

.....It's very very rare for dog trainers to use whistles......

Not really.

 

[santaman2000]

.....Again though why on earth would you whistle for help if you're within earshot of some sheep dog trials?....

You reference "trials" here and earlier "trainers." But you fail to take actual hunters into account using their whistles to recall their bird dogs (actually quite common) Yes, you're correct in assuming that there should be no need for a whistle to signal for aid if you're within earshot of such people. But that's not the point. The more likely situation is that someone alone might be injured (whether it be a hunter, a hiker, a farmer, or whoever) and there isn't necessarily a glut of other such people around (I often hunt alone)

Of course that begs the question, "Just who would hear the whistle then?" and that's somewhat valid. As any audible signaling method, it depends on either hoping that someone is within hearing distance by chance; or there actively searching for you.

 

[santaman2000]

......I'm not being factitious, but your examples are not really relevant, it's like saying a whistle wouldn't be much use for signalling help needed at a football match.
Common sense stills rules supreme here, it's no good thinking a whistle of any amount of blows will be your saviour, there are other signalling methods that might be more useful depending on the environment.......

Perhaps you're not being facetious, but you are dividing the usefulness of a whistle into two very defined categories:
1) An absolute method of signaling that will always work or
2) A method that will never work

You're further arguing that since the first category is beyond possible then the second must be true.

The reality is somewhere in between; a whistle is a useful tool that can work if used properly and the circumstances allow.

 

[leon-1]

The reality is somewhere in between; a whistle is a useful tool that can work if used properly and the circumstances allow.

Yep, I agree totally and a whistle is one of those items that can be carried by anyone of any age. It doesn't matter if it gets wet and requires little physical ability to use. It does not require a permit or certificate to use (as mini flares do in the UK now). It doesn't require the sun, or even daylight, so it is used for signalling both day and night.

It is considered an aid to search and rescue as are many other things including heliographs, torches, flares, Pieps (Avalanche transponder),EPIRB, radios and mobile phones, however it is not dependant on batteries and does not require you to find firewood or a vantagepoint.

Noise, motion and contrast are the things most likely to draw attention. All three can be supplied with the use of a brightly coloured jacket and a whistle during daylight. With the jacket tied into a tree or onto a walking pole fluttering in the wind and someone blowing a whistle and at night just replace the jacket with a torch. In survival you never rely upon just one thing, use everything that you have at hand without expending energy unnecessarily.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Have a couple of Deuter packs Julia and i have been in the Scouts, neither taught me how many blows to whistle.

Interesting. Both of the Deuter packs I own have a label in the lid with signal instructions:

I don't know how long they have been doing so, but I have a pack from about 2000, and another from about 2007. Both have this label under the lid.

Since i moved to Greece i've always have a whistle with me, it's also peaked my curiosity on who else carries a whistle and if they know how to signal with it.

The sternum strap on my pack (Osprey) has a whistle integrated into the buckle, which is common on many modern packs. Tho I think that given how little it would cost both in terms of weight and money, to include a label like dueter do with how to use the whistle it's slightly annoying that they don't.

Might sound a bit weird but i have asked a fair few folks over the years, i'd bet money that i've asked over 100 people, only a hand full carried a whistle and only 1 knew how many times to blow (off duty SAR).
The funny thing was several of those i asked said they didn't have a whistle yet i could see one on their sternum strap of their rucksack.

Were they using the sternum strap at the time? You would be surprised how many may think the orange part of the buckle is there as a colour trim, not as because of another reason.

Is there much of a need for SAR around Sandringham palace?

I was Orienteering at the time, British Schools Orienteering championships. So actually given that I was jumping over logs and running through stinging nettles, the chance of my tripping over and hurting myself were quite high. Such a situation is ideal for a whistle to be useful. This was when I was 14, so before mobile phones.

I'm not being factitious, but your examples are not really relevant, it's like saying a whistle wouldn't be much use for signalling help needed at a football match.
Common sense stills rules supreme here, it's no good thinking a whistle of any amount of blows will be your saviour, there are other signalling methods that might be more useful depending on the environment.

I think you may be not thinking a wide enough set of possibilities. It's very easy for our view of the outdoors to largely involve yomping across the remote far north of Scotland as the only human for miles. Or tabbing across a windswept lonely hill in the breacon beacons.

But the reality is that unless we live very close to those areas, most of us our regular trip outs are going to be a lot closer to civilisation. For me, a walk in the Kings Wood (near Wye, Kent) is a common walk. The area is frequented by dog walkers. The downs that neighbour it are full of sheep.

I've done orienteering events in country parks where 80% of the park is "natural" woodland, but as it was a Sunday morning, part of the park was used for the local kids 5 a side league.

As for the sheep, remember, we're not talking about sheep dog trials, but actual shepherds herding their sheep. Most of Britain's uplands are used for sheep farming. So the idea of hearing a whistle from a shepherd herding his flock seems not unreasonable.

As an example, if you start a fire that puts out a lot of smoke in Greece in the warmer months i'll guarantee you'll get noticed, it'll probably end with at least 1 night in a cell but then it might be better than the alternative.

If I've fallen over and twisted an ankle, I doubt I would be able to get enough dry wood to make a fire... I'm also more likely to carry a whistle than I am my Polymath products EDC Fire kit (I left it at home yesterday by mistake when at work). Signal fires need to be maintained long enough for help to arrive, they need to be fed. That is not something easy to do if you are injured.

It's very very rare for dog trainers to use whistles, sheep herders will whistle but it's not common that they will use whistles, usually the whistling is down by mouth or they shout abbreviated commands.
Again though why on earth would you whistle for help if you're within earshot of some sheep dog trials?

Who said anything about dog trainers, or sheep dog trials? I am talking normal dog walkers (who head into the woods too), or working shepherds on the uplands. Both are actually highly likely. I could be laying next to a rock on the east side of the hill with a broken leg and worsening hypothermia, and on the west side a farmer could be herding his flock together.

As a adult it's your responsibility to provide safety for yourself, if that means that you will blow 6 times a min that's your choice, i'm not saying your wrong.

My point is, it's better to blow any number of times than not all because your unsure.

Blow a whistle enough you should get someone's attention. But I must admit you are likely to not get it as fast as 6 blasts. If I heard a whistle while out, I would stop and count the blasts. Then take the conditions into account as to what is going on. If I heard 6 blasts, I would take my phone out, and call 112, while trying to find the source of the blasts.

You are right, I am an adult (what a scary thought), and I am responsible for my own safety. I think it is irresponsible to head out into the outdoors without understanding basic safety procedure, be that 6 whistles, or to dial 112.

When I go for a walk, I give my general route (either a gpx or a "heading to Denge woods"), as well as my expected ETA ("back at 1700") to a trusted friend (who happens to be in the local SAR group). This is my primary source of aid. If I am not back by 1800, someone will come looking. If I fall over at 1505 and injure myself, I'll start blowing the whistle on my pack.

Being that we are in a civilised 1st world country I am assuming that my mobile phone won't have signal...

It's also important to note that all blows of whistles are not the same, i'd guarantee that i could get myself noticed at a football match, i'd just need my whistle to be loud and long enough to gain attention.

What if you were laying with a twisted ankle in the woods 300 yards from the kids 5 aside game on the village green?

Julia

 

[cbr6fs]

It's a tough one because although you are right in what you are saying, i do feel we are starting to go into the realms of fantasy here.

If i wasn't in the middle of nowhere with a busted ankle then i'd crawl out, i certainly wouldn't sit there blowing my whistle in the hope that someone would hear it.

I know for a fact i can drag myself or hobble 300 yards if i knew there would be someone there (i.e. 5 aside game on a village green).

You could blow your whistle exactly 6 times per min for hours and even if someone hears it, there is no guarantee they'll come to you even IF they recognise it as a emergency signal.

So my first priority would be to see if i can self rescue.

If i can't then can i drag myself to a busier path/road

If it's no to the above then i'll take in my surroundings and the weather and decide the best plan from there.
Whistle, torch, bright bit of clothing being waved around, shouting, i'd even consider throwing stones if i saw people below me.

That's the point i was trying to make, a whistle is no guarantee that help is coming, it's more important to have a plan A, B, C and then a plan D if the others don't work, even then common sense comes in.

 

[santaman2000]

......That's the point i was trying to make, a whistle is no guarantee that help is coming, it's more important to have a plan A, B, C and then a plan D if the others don't work, even then common sense comes in.

Of course the whistle's no guarantee. Indeed, it is either plan A, B, C, or D. And THAT is the point.