Survival whistles

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,539
702
Knowhere
If things got that bad, I'd fire my rifle.

That is not an option over here of course, unless you are out stalking, in which case I expect the shot would just be confused with any other shot, whereas a whistle is a signal. You asked how many people had been saved by whistles, which seems to be a question that cannot be answered. I wonder how many people are lost each year in your Northern wilderness and pay with there lives. I would guess that there are a lot fewer people out there than go onto the English, Welsh and Scottish hills each year, which is why what would seem to have little point to you, in your situation, is an entirely different matter here.

There were pheasants on my allotment today, but the rules specifically forbid shooting with good reason, too small an area, too great a risk. The only thing that get's trapped here are the rats. We live in a densely populated land, and whilst a couple of hundred miles might not be much to you, it is a long way on busy roads, to get out to what areas of wild still exist, and those we share with hundreds of others doing the same. Mind you if I want to go out all day and not see anybody I still can, in some of the local woods where the dog walkers don't go.
 
Hi laurentius

forgive me I wasn't criticising the whistle in your country. I was just surprised at how people relied on it and was curious knowing how many people get saved by it and maybe of some use here.

Of course I know your country is a bit smaller (I spent a month in Yorkshire recently!) lovely place!!

And people do die up here but generally only the inexperienced and ill prepared. Here's one well known one and he was from England. I've canoed past their graves a couple of times. http://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hornby&sa=U&ei=WWBiVKekCNXesAS9_oDIAw&ved=0CCMQFjAD&sig2=JQruqCP3cfIhg6qL7rGe2w&usg=AFQjCNE0F2f_3BCpw3VMuVgu4jXfITCYJg The party of 3 starved to death in the winter.
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,810
S. Lanarkshire
This newspaper article lists last years toll on Scottish Mountains.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/09/scottish-highlands-mountain-rescue

That the MR teams own websites recommend the MCoS advice with the whistle in among the kit list under Safety, Winter and Summer, is good enough for most of us here.
http://www.mcofs.org.uk/clothingandequipment.asp

Weighs very little, easy to keep at hand but not in the way. Why not ?

We do take the point about different wildernesses, ours are not a expansive as those on continental landmasses, but they can be ever bit as challenging otherwise.

Be safe out there :D

M
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,539
702
Knowhere
Case in point Toddy, up on the Aonach Eagach Ridge you are in sight of the A82. The quickest way back to the road is straight down, but you do not want to be doing that. It is far too many years now since I have been there and nowadays it is no country for old men like me, I shall stick to Snowdonia :)
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Really interesting too read the various points of view.

If i was out with a mate hunting and became concerned about him after splitting, if i heard gun shots i'd make the assumption he must be ok and go about my business.

If on the other had i heard a whistle i'd run to him as fast as i could.


There is no doubt a gun shot would be heard further away, but for a hunting party surely that'd be expected?
How could you differentiate between a hunting gun shot and help me gun shot?

I'd also be concerned about how much ammo i had.
If you're not expected to meet for say 1 week then you need to ration your bullets, firing say 6 shots per hour for 1 week is not really a realistic option (that's over 1000 rounds).
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,539
702
Knowhere
Really interesting too read the various points of view.

It's definately a case of horses for courses, as has been said in another thread, there are environments where a fire lighting kit and fishing kit are going to be of zero survival use either. When I am out for a local bimble all I will usually take apart from my SAK is a brew kit, not that I need a brew kit, but that I like to make a brew, I'll take a tarp too if the weather is not too good, as it is convenient to rig a shelter to enjoy your brew. That's not a survival situation. I'll usually have a compass, matter of routine really, even if it just a zip pull compass, it comes in handy now and then when the bearing is not going to be critical and a general sense of direction is needed when visibility is low. Most useful in central London actually as I can't think of a better place to lose your bearings :)

My original question was not anything to do with whether it is advisable to take a whistle but as to what kind of whistle to take. I have come to the conclusion having done the freezer test, that a metal whistle is not going to be any disadvantage over a plastic one. If you can blow a whistle that has been stuck in the freezer a couple of hours your lips are going survive a frozen whistle in the wilds. The question is all about how far the sound will carry. I am currently awaiting delivery of a heavy duty brass Acme Thunderer, now please nobody start on me that brass is toxic.

I may never so far have needed to summon help with a whistle, or been in an outdoors situation where I needed to be rescued from, but that is no reason not to be prepared is it? Hey isn't that a motto or something :)
 
Really interesting too read the various points of view.

If i was out with a mate hunting and became concerned about him after splitting, if i heard gun shots i'd make the assumption he must be ok and go about my business.

If on the other had i heard a whistle i'd run to him as fast as i could.


There is no doubt a gun shot would be heard further away, but for a hunting party surely that'd be expected?
How could you differentiate between a hunting gun shot and help me gun shot?

I'd also be concerned about how much ammo i had.
If you're not expected to meet for say 1 week then you need to ration your bullets, firing say 6 shots per hour for 1 week is not really a realistic option (that's over 1000 rounds).

Therein lies the difference my friend. No guarantees up here. We never hunt in groups. Only with one other. My brother in law is my regular hunting partner on long trips, But we're sometimes five, ten or fifteen miles apart for three or four days. There may be no one else in the bush for fifty or hundred miles. Even a rifle wouldn't work for signalling. A radio wouldn't be of use unless you were lucky enough to catch an bush plane overhead. Anycase we don't carry them.

Gunshot? If I heard one shot, I'd know my hunting partner had made a kill nearbye. If I heard him make a quick second shot I'd think he'd made a mess of the first shot. Anymore shots and I might worry. I'd wonder what the hell he was doing too. But I also know he can look after himself and not be a liability. I've done over twenty five annual trips with him, including a couple where we were out for three months.

I have to trust him not to make a mistake or have an accident and he has to do the same for me. Perhaps he is my whistle and I am his??

Wadji.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Therein lies the difference my friend. No guarantees up here. We never hunt in groups. Only with one other. My brother in law is my regular hunting partner on long trips, But we're sometimes five, ten or fifteen miles apart for three or four days. There may be no one else in the bush for fifty or hundred miles. Even a rifle wouldn't work for signalling. A radio wouldn't be of use unless you were lucky enough to catch an bush plane overhead. Anycase we don't carry them.

Gunshot? If I heard one shot, I'd know my hunting partner had made a kill nearbye. If I heard him make a quick second shot I'd think he'd made a mess of the first shot. Anymore shots and I might worry. I'd wonder what the hell he was doing too. But I also know he can look after himself and not be a liability. I've done over twenty five annual trips with him, including a couple where we were out for three months.

I have to trust him not to make a mistake or have an accident and he has to do the same for me. Perhaps he is my whistle and I am his??

Wadji.

I think the only guarantee is that we're all going to die sometime.

Some stuff is risky but we have to do what we have to do.

Personally i try and sway luck towards my favour as much as i can, some stuff is just basic common sense, other stuff needs a bit of planning.
Good example is tonight, we went through the "earthquake bag" checking everything was within date and nothing had been taken out.

My mates back in England think i'm crazy for having a earthquake bag, in fact even some of my Greek mates think i'm a bit daft.
Fact is though a big one IS going to hit Athens one day, fingers crossed it won't be in my life time but there is a chance.
It's also a certainty that there will be aftershocks.

So we have a bag with my camping gear in, a copy of all important documents, back up of all important digital files and pics, and other stuff like SAF and ny medication anyone is needing at the time.


To me a whistle is the same thing, it's something i hope i'll never NEED to use, but it's small, it's cheap and it's extremely lightweight so it's really no problem if i need to carry it around with me and it never gets used.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
68
Florida
......If i was out with a mate hunting and became concerned about him after splitting, if i heard gun shots i'd make the assumption he must be ok and go about my business......

......There is no doubt a gun shot would be heard further away, but for a hunting party surely that'd be expected?
How could you differentiate between a hunting gun shot and help me gun shot?......

......Gunshot? If I heard one shot, I'd know my hunting partner had made a kill nearbye. If I heard him make a quick second shot I'd think he'd made a mess of the first shot. Anymore shots and I might worry. .....

So we're back to the pattern of three shots in succession (or 6 in the UK) Just like they teach in survival courses.

Of course it only works if somebody's in hearing range. And has been stated, gunshots aren't practical in the UK.
 

Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
25
Europe
So we're back to the pattern of three shots in succession (or 6 in the UK) Just like they teach in survival courses.

Of course it only works if somebody's in hearing range. And has been stated, gunshots aren't practical in the UK.

I still can't help but think that 3 of something as an emergency signal has the potential to create too many false positives. A car catching the sun right could easily give you three flashes (wind screen + drivers window + rear passenger window), a canyon could easily give you 3 echo's off a single whistle or gun shot...

The fact that there are 2 standards in the first place, plus the marine version is also slightly disturbing. Perhaps I'm just paranoid, but it doesn't make me feel safer knowing this.

Julia
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
68
Florida
I still can't help but think that 3 of something as an emergency signal has the potential to create too many false positives. A car catching the sun right could easily give you three flashes (wind screen + drivers window + rear passenger window), a canyon could easily give you 3 echo's off a single whistle or gun shot...

The fact that there are 2 standards in the first place, plus the marine version is also slightly disturbing. Perhaps I'm just paranoid, but it doesn't make me feel safer knowing this.

Julia

I certainly can't dispute your logic; in fact I partially agree (I only say "partially" because I don't have any firsthand knowledge of it having happened) But then again, the best advise I could offer would be to learn the local protocols.

Edit to add. I suspect the reason it's a pattern of threes here has to do with the magazine capacity of most hunting rifles and shotguns in North America. Most hunting rifles are usually limited to no more than 4 or 5 shot capacity whereas shotguns are often limited to three shots. Of course you can reload, but that would interrupt the pattern.

Be advised, this is just my best guess as to why.
 
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Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
25
Europe
I certainly can't dispute your logic; in fact I partially agree (I only say "partially" because I don't have any firsthand knowledge of it having happened) But then again, the best advise I could offer would be to learn the local protocols.

My advice would always be not to get lost or injured and need to signal for help, but that may be a bit to idealistic and simple :p

J
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,539
702
Knowhere
I certainly can't dispute your logic; in fact I partially agree (I only say "partially" because I don't have any firsthand knowledge of it having happened) But then again, the best advise I could offer would be to learn the local protocols.

Edit to add. I suspect the reason it's a pattern of threes here has to do with the magazine capacity of most hunting rifles and shotguns in North America. Most hunting rifles are usually limited to no more than 4 or 5 shot capacity whereas shotguns are often limited to three shots. Of course you can reload, but that would interrupt the pattern.

Be advised, this is just my best guess as to why.

As far as risk goes I don't think it gets a lot more risky than speculating about differences between the US and the UK.

I would speculate that it all comes from morse code originally, but that it would seem that morse code is considered too complicated for the Hoi Polloi to remember, therefore it got dumbed down, to three in the US and six in the UK and parts of Europe.

It makes sense to use the local protocol whatever.

I don't think the origin of the signal has anything to do with rifles and there capacity whatever. Whistle blasts are not limited by magazines, mirror flashes are not either and torches are ultimately limited by batteries.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,539
702
Knowhere
Ok. I have got my whistle now, it came yesterday, it is an ACME thunderer, a metal one, and I was surprised how big and heavy it was. However in that respect it satisfies my original hankering for something traditional and solid. I thought as an experiment I would run it under the tap and then stick it in the freezer until the pea froze solid.

I have to say that insofar as whistles not sounding when the pea is frozen, that is a myth securely busted. It still blew and it did not give me frostbitten lips either. On that basis I am content to add it to my possibles, it is built like a tank, I reckon you could run a bus over it and it would still blow.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,120
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Florida
.....I don't think the origin of the signal has anything to do with rifles and there capacity whatever. Whistle blasts are not limited by magazines, mirror flashes are not either and torches are ultimately limited by batteries.

Possibly, but I believe the pattern of threes here predates when most people carried flashlights or whistles. TBH I'm only throwing out my best guesses and hoping for logical replies (such as yours about Morse Code) That said though, Morse code wouldn't be possible to simulate with gunshots (no long and short blasts; they're all equal) nor with signal fires.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,539
702
Knowhere
Perhaps it originates in military signals. Bugles and Fifes were both used to carry above the sounds of battle in times past. Neither bugles nor fifes can be blown easily by those who are not experienced, whereas a whistle can. Whistles as a call for help seem to have there origins in the metropolitan police, but then the history of the whistle also seems inseperable from the referees whistle.
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
13,017
1,639
51
Wiltshire
Thats a re-se-war....I mean, artificial lake.

We do not have much wild land in this country, but, yes, it is dangerous even to the experienced. This is because our weather changes so much.

Guides to Britain say that you can experience all four seasons in one day.

They are right.
 

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