Survival whistles
- Thread starter Laurentius
- Start date
I think you may be misunderstanding.
As a Police whistle it's great, robust, doesn't matter if it's big and heavy, can be carried in a pocket or on a lanyard, as an officer would be doing his job on the beat he would not be in a bush survival situation and probably not in any kind of risk of hypothermic situation, in fact could probably knock on any nearby door for help.
In a survival situation, possibly in a cold climate, as an example possibly stranded on a ledge in Snowdonia with a broken arm and possibly having to resort to your survival kit you would probably want something that is light and with very little heat conductivity so NOT metal.
No. I understood. My point is that it gets just as cold in town as it does in the woods. I've blown my metal one hundreds of times (more often as a hunter than as a cop) in the cold. My lips have never yet frozen to it. Nor is any whistle particularly heavy to be a burden; either to carry or to lift with an injured hand.
Mst conventional whistles I've ever seen are rather small to be able to grip easily with gloved hands, but even so, they're certainly manageable.
Going by your response - no you didn't !
No worries, but can I just ask so I can get a better idea of where you are coming from when you talk about survival, your understanding of a survival kit, does it include small and light items so that the kit possibly in a small pouch or tin can be carried on your person if necessarry in case you have no other kit.
Being a Policeman and a hunter don't really scream survival situations to me. Certainly 'Policeman' would indicate at some point ending a shift then going indoors at the Police station to get changed back into civvies and driving home in a warm car, then sitting in a comfy sofa with the central heating on and watching TV while eating a lovely home cooked dinner. Do you class that as a survival situation?
As a hunter even then do you not carry a small pouch with basic survival essentials which are very light and small, enough so they can be carried on your person in a pocket or inner clothing, and when making use of them they don't exacerbate any risk of succoming to the elements or is it pretty warm where you frequent on hunting trips without much risk of hypothermia.
In many parts of the UK the risk of hypothermia is massive due to the combination of wet climate, cold temperatures and the effect of windchill which can move in within minutes.
If you feel that placing a metal part in your mouth (and blowing through it numerous times possibly for a day or more in the hope that a rescue team will hear it in low visibility due to cloud cover or even darkness and freezing cold) is not a detriment to retaining your temperature then I am truly at a loss as to what you class as survival skills.
Or maybe I should be a bit more generous as you may not have had the same experiences as some on here that feel that any dissadvantage you purposely give yourself in a survival situation is playing with your fate.
But again no big deal, you are clearly happy with what you would have in your survival kit and that is different to what I would be happy with.
Happiness and good health to you.
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bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'm not convinced how detrimental to you using a metal whistle would be in any situation.....but you could always wrap a couple of turns of black electrical insulation tape round the mouth piece....I used to do this with my old metal mug so I didn't burn my soft delicate lips when drinking hot drinks 
if physical contact cold is the only issue then that's a good solution and you get one more piece of survival material to boot
Although eventually over a period of time the heat dissipation from your lips will become an issue.
Have a look at this, it's an education.
Basically plastics are insulators whereas metals are conductors.
For me it comes down to which material gives me an advantage rather than a problem in a survival situation.
http://www.coolpolymers.com/heattrans.html
Although eventually over a period of time the heat dissipation from your lips will become an issue.
Have a look at this, it's an education.
Basically plastics are insulators whereas metals are conductors.
For me it comes down to which material gives me an advantage rather than a problem in a survival situation.
http://www.coolpolymers.com/heattrans.html
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Also:
watch this video and think about blowing your core body heat through a metal whistle all day or night and it transferring that body heat into the cold air massively faster than a plastic one would, basically in low ambient temperature situations you are placing a small radiator in your mouth, not a good idea in a survival situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH58krNymgE
watch this video and think about blowing your core body heat through a metal whistle all day or night and it transferring that body heat into the cold air massively faster than a plastic one would, basically in low ambient temperature situations you are placing a small radiator in your mouth, not a good idea in a survival situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH58krNymgE
also this:
Look at the difference between brass and plastics for instance, it's massive.
Again which one gives me an advantage rather than a problem in my survival kit.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
Look at the difference between brass and plastics for instance, it's massive.
Again which one gives me an advantage rather than a problem in my survival kit.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
*My watches as a patrol cop? Well, no. I didn't go warm to a station and change into civies. I just drove the patrol car home at the end of my watch (they're part of your assigned equipment, just like the badge, guns, body armor, ticketbooks, etc.) Many watches, I never saw a station as it was over 40 miles away. And some watches lasted 24 hour or more during hurricanes. However, watches as a Corrections Officer were always in a warm building (either the County Jail, The State Prison, or the Courthouse) but they also never involve "changing clothes at the end of watch. But TBH, I rarely used the whistle as a cop, I just carried it; the radio was much better for signaling; the whistle was for directing traffic, and I rarely got that duty.
*"Being a policeman...doesn't scream survival situation to you?" Apparently you don't have Game Wardens; cops trained and assigned solely for enforcing fish and wildlife laws. Nor Forest Rangers; cops trained and assigned solely for patrolling large National Forests. Both of these agencies are among the main ones called for SAR.
*Where did I hunt? We that answer is far more varied:
-The swamps, wood, and hills of the Southeast when growing up. Average temps anywhere from 80f at the beginning and end of the season, down to 20f in mid season. Thunderstorms (to include tornados) unlike anything I ever experienced anywhere in the UK or Europe.
-The Nevada Mountains for a while. This included hunting trips living in a tent on a snow covered mountain for up to two weeks at a time (deer camp) Average night time temps usually about 15f. Average elevation ranging from around 8,000 to just shy of 12,000 feet. Infrequent but possible avalanches.
-The Nevada deserts. Average daytime temps in early Autumn and Spring usually around 90f; average in midwinter around freezing. Almost no moisture to speak of although when it did rain there was always a threat of immediate flash floods over 15 feet deep in the washes where we hunted.
-The Texas Hill Country. Also camping trips for these hunts. Average temps during hunting season around freezing or slightly warmer at night up to the low 80s (f) in the daytime. Heavy thunder storms were/are common and occasional snow. Same tornado danger as the Southeast.
-Finally on to the Florida Panhandle. Again, these trips often involve camping. Average temps during hunting season range from daytime highs over 80f down to 18f for night time temps (the wide variance occurs over the full season) Weather during hunting season here is similar to Texas.
-The danger of hypothermia here? It varies. No danger at all in the Summer. Winter time is another story; we lost two Army Ranger trainees to it a few years ago on a training exercise in the Yellow River Swamp (one of the swamps where I hunt)
-The same danger in the other places I've lived and hunted? About the same for most of them but considerably higher in the Western Mountains.
*Do I carry a survival kit? No. My gear is my gear. What I carry is what I carry on my person (in my pockets usually, or scattered about in various parts of my pack) all the time when in the woods. It usually includes:
-a whistle (either the metal one I inherited or; horrors; yes, I do have a plastic one that's built into one of my match cases that lives among my gear)
-a pocketknife in my pocket and at least one more knife on my belt
-matches
-a gun
-a bit of extra food
-sometimes a FAK
-sometimes a compass if I want to have a play or locate something particularly interesting.
In the truck I carry a bit more: more food, more water, more knives/machete/axe, a bigger gun (unless the purpose of the trip was hunting, in which case the biggest gun is likely the one on my person) more ammo, a shovel, a fishing pole with lures and a small tackle box, a space blanket, more matches, etc.
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We were issued the "acme Metropolitan" but they are of a poor quality & the base that the chains attach to comes off. For my entire service I carried my "acme scout". I've now been retired a year, & 2 weeks ago sold my tac vest, to which the scout was attached, but sadly while stored the whistle had got crushed & the seam split, a sad day as I've had it for over 40yrs.
Rob
Rob
Or you could go bushcrafty for your survival whistle and carve one yourself!
I have made several over the years and one particularly loud and penetrating one is in my Sporran Pouch, another is attached to my daysack.
The advantage of wood over metal is that it does not freeze to your lips in cold weather....a problem I found with my Acme Thunderer. For my canoeing I just used a Fox 40 plastic job.
Strangely enough, the only time I have ever needed a whistle to get help was in hot summer weather - other than that my whistles have only been used to gain folks attention on noisy rivers and on Scout Camps.
I have made several over the years and one particularly loud and penetrating one is in my Sporran Pouch, another is attached to my daysack.
The advantage of wood over metal is that it does not freeze to your lips in cold weather....a problem I found with my Acme Thunderer. For my canoeing I just used a Fox 40 plastic job.
Strangely enough, the only time I have ever needed a whistle to get help was in hot summer weather - other than that my whistles have only been used to gain folks attention on noisy rivers and on Scout Camps.
There are certain areas and situations where hypothermia would be a concern but i wouldn't say they are massive.
In some of the more remote areas of Scotland if your car breaks down in winter then unless you have extra clothing or a sleeping bag hypothermia is a worry.
Most other areas though a house is in easy walking distance even in heavy snow.
BTW being stuck in a car in the middle of nowhere a whistle isn't going to be much use.
Outdoors, hypothermia is a worry in winter if you get lost or sustain a injury, in this situation a whistle will be a useful method of signalling that your in distress and need help, even if you have a mobile phone signal it'll help SAR find your location quicker.
Just found this after a search
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9078273/Hypothermia-deaths-double-over-five-years.html
Have to say i'm really surprised, 260 deaths related the hypothermia in 2010/2011 was way more than i would have thought.
To put that into context though around 100 people are murdered by their spouse each year, in 2010 405 pedestrians, 111 cyclists, 402 bikers and 835 car occupants were killed on UK roads.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/359012/indicator-table.xls
Would be interesting to see how those hypothermia deaths were broke down, i.e. hikers, homeless, elderly etc
I would guess that by far the most deaths would be from the elderly or homeless IF that is the case the vast majority of those cases would be in cities, towns or areas with enough of a population density that a shout could have been heard.
So i think that the amount of deaths from hypothermia a whistle could have prevented would be very very small, the amount of deaths that would be caused my using a metal whistle even fewer.
The other thing is if the whistle is cold you can always stick it in your pocket, under your arm pit or somewhere else warm.
If hypothermia has set in to the point where this is not possible then it's highly unlikely you'd have the dexterity to blow a whistle of any type.
For me personally a whistle is a emergency device, if i need to blow it i'm having a bad day, so i want the loudest i can buy for the least amount of energy expelled.
Not sure how many have had broken ribs here, but from first hand experience it makes breathing difficult and painful, never mind blowing a whistle, so i don't care what colour the whistle is, what shape it is, as long as it's tough i don't care what it's made out of, i just want a reliable very very loud whistle.
I agree, I doubt you would ever see a report that death was caused by a metal whistle. But the issue is more complaex and it's
about degrees of advantage with the kit you choose.
Not sure I'd want to be putting it in my mouth after that ;-)
And why would you want to do that every time you want to blow your whistle. You'd effectively be taking your body heat and repeatedly sending out into the cold atmosphere, not sure in the sense in that one. Especially when you can make a decision about the type of whistle when initially setting up your kit.
Each to their own. But I feel that a plastic whistle gives advantages over a metal one, but everyday is a school day which is why I am here and will listen to any considered argument about why a metal whistle gives advantages over a tough plastic one(volume and effort to produce that volume being equal).
So that's it then - what is the advantage of a metal one over a plastic one, plain and simple question?
Think about this for a min, if we hike in say -10c conditions and we have both a metal and a plastic whistle in our rucksack, the plastic whistle doesn't have any heating abilities so both the metal whistle and the plastic whistle will have exactly the same temperature differential to our lips.
At least the metal whistle will conduct the heat from our lips more efficiently than a plastic whistle (warming the whistle up quicker).
So i don't see that the material the whistle is made of makes a blind bit of difference.
Even IF metal whistles caused heat loss or were uncomfortable to blow in really cold conditions, plastic isn't without it's compromises when subjected to really cold weather.
Many plastic will become very brittle, i've seen a plastic water bottle literally smash to pieces when dropped in really cold conditions.
So as i say i honestly don't think it makes any real world difference.
In my opinion 1st priority is it needs to be tough enough to survive being bashed around in my rucksack, next is how loud it is.
If they bought out a metal whistle that was as tough as the storm whistle but louder then i'd buy one and work around any possible cold weather issues.
Dunno, i drank some sports type drink yesterday and given the choice i'd sooner lick my own armpit than drink any more
/pedantic mode on
But if we are exposing our face and lips to the said cold that means we are exposing more surface area to the cold than a whistle could offer, effectively our face would be a bigger heat sink
/pedantic mode off
At the min the loudest whistle i've tested and read about were all plastic, so it seems plastic whistle do offer a real advantage right now.
My only concern with plastic whistles is their fragility.
So far this hasn't been a problem with any of the whistles i carry/own (all but 1 plastic).
Might not sound like much of a worry, but living in a very active earthquake zone i have a whistle on my or near me 24/7, for some that's 15 years of being banged about and dropped.
The best whistle i own is the storm whistle, unfortunately it's just to bulky to carry every day, so i carry a fox 40 daily instead, still ear splitting loud (not as loud as the storm though) but far less bulky to carry.
If a metal whistle came out that was louder than my fox40 but was smaller and stronger then i'd have no worries about buying it and carrying it.
I'm of the view that if a situation occurs where you really need it ANY whistle is better than none.
I have something like the following long link attached to my compass. it has the Marmot brand logo on it and a nylon cord loop (tied loop) through the end. It is useless and really doesn;t whistle loudly at all but it was free so I carry it on the lanyard (then often forget my compass as well, leaving it in the car or at home).
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...ae0m_rf-ZkFaD6Paq_28QLNA&ust=1415288625286579
The main whistle I own and carry was the Lifesystems Mountain-lite whistle. Supposedly 120dB but not really that loud IMHO. I used to have it but my lass took it for a keyring to give her parents our front door key. Personally wish she had't given it away and am still waiting for her to make good on her promise of a replacement. She got a replacement, for herself, but it was only a cheap copy of the basic, solid Al whistle style and not really worth the £1 paid. The mountain-lite whistle is found in most outdoor shops and in many different colours. Worth having as a keyring if nothing else. There is bound to be better whistles out there like the highly rated (in outdoor instructor and MRT circles I believe) Fox 40 whistle. IIRC Opinel have a new plastic handled version of their knives which have a whistle built in. I think I read the whistle part was designed by the people behind the fox 40 so should be a good whistle too.
https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/product/outdoor-survival/mountain-lite-whistlee
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...ae0m_rf-ZkFaD6Paq_28QLNA&ust=1415288625286579
The main whistle I own and carry was the Lifesystems Mountain-lite whistle. Supposedly 120dB but not really that loud IMHO. I used to have it but my lass took it for a keyring to give her parents our front door key. Personally wish she had't given it away and am still waiting for her to make good on her promise of a replacement. She got a replacement, for herself, but it was only a cheap copy of the basic, solid Al whistle style and not really worth the £1 paid. The mountain-lite whistle is found in most outdoor shops and in many different colours. Worth having as a keyring if nothing else. There is bound to be better whistles out there like the highly rated (in outdoor instructor and MRT circles I believe) Fox 40 whistle. IIRC Opinel have a new plastic handled version of their knives which have a whistle built in. I think I read the whistle part was designed by the people behind the fox 40 so should be a good whistle too.
https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/product/outdoor-survival/mountain-lite-whistlee
I agree with most of what you have said there but I have to disagree with this bit.
Slightly fuzzy logic, as you say the metal whistle is a better conductor, that does mean it warms up, but unfortunately also dissipates the heat away from your lips very quickly into the air around it.
Plastic insulates and so keeps the heat on the lips better than metal. This is why metal will stick to the lips because depending on the temperature variance it reduces the temperature of what it touches very quickly by conducting the heat away and if it is below freezing it can reduce the contact point of the skin quickly to that level.
When you touch something metal and it feels cold it is actually your skin that is reducing in temperature that you can feel.
Slightly fuzzy logic, as you say the metal whistle is a better conductor, that does mean it warms up, but unfortunately also dissipates the heat away from your lips very quickly into the air around it.
Plastic insulates and so keeps the heat on the lips better than metal. This is why metal will stick to the lips because depending on the temperature variance it reduces the temperature of what it touches very quickly by conducting the heat away and if it is below freezing it can reduce the contact point of the skin quickly to that level.
When you touch something metal and it feels cold it is actually your skin that is reducing in temperature that you can feel.
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