Runes - any experts out there?

  • Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.

Kerne

Maker
Dec 16, 2007
1,766
21
Gloucestershire
Not sure if this should be in DIY and Traditional crafts, but here goes:

Some of you may know that I have been making stamps for leatherwork using the waste from a kid's project at my school. Well, I've been thinking about making a set of rune stamps but I know next to nothing about them. (Being a Celt rather than anglo saxon/Viking:) ) and a little research has shown me that there are different alphabets and not a little controversy about "authenticity". So, should I use the "futhark" alphabet or one of the others - what do you lot reckon?
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
1
Elsewhere
Use whatever you think is best.
The 'Futhark' runes are pretty much 'standard' and are the runes that most know. There are slight variations, but they are all more or less similar (as I recall, the only real difference hinges around the rendition of 'th').
Or maybe you could be really clever (I hesitate to use the word 'indigenous') and try your hand at Ogham script!
 

Ben Trout

Nomad
Feb 19, 2006
300
1
46
Wiltshire, GB
I hope someone who knows better than me is along soon.

The picture of inscriptions I've seen seem to suggest that the Elder Futhark tended more to straight lines. The later Runes, in more sophiticated carvings, had more curves.

How about you look at what pictures you can find and go for something you like? I like simple geometric versions of the Elder Futhark.

The 'fun with bindrunes' thread had some great stuff on it, but most of the pictures have expired. Eric Methven's avatar is a Bindrune of his initials. I think there are a few on here who have done the same. Have a closer look at avatars and you might spot them.
 

Indoorsout

Settler
Apr 29, 2008
509
1
Brisbane, Australia
Tandys used to do a Futhark stamp set although they called them Celtic I think. They are no longer produced though. I have a set I bought a few years ago. I'd quite like a Northumbrian/Anglo-Saxon Futhork set - that's the one with 33 runes. Have a look here, http://www.arild-hauge.com/eindex.htm they have quite a few of the Fuths on there as well as the ways to carve 'secret' runic messages
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
You might find this useful.

http://www.lore-and-saga.co.uk/html/the_simple_truth_about_runes.html

It is a subject that is often overcomplicated for no good reason.

If you want Early Germanic runes then this would be your set.

Elder-Runes.jpg


If you want Anglo Saxon runes this is a good set.

Anglo-saxon.jpg


If you want Viking runes there are a few variations but this is a good set.

Younger-Runes.jpg


The ones lower left are variations of the upper line common in Sweden and Norway.

The runes lower right were added around the tenth century to reflect the need for a wider range of sound values from a wider vocabulary.

Hope that helps.
 

Melonfish

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 8, 2009
2,460
1
Warrington, UK
about as much experience i have with runes is the inside sleave of an Amon Amarth album...
Ah Ogham, the old celtic tree alphabet. good stuff if you can get it right ;)
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
24,182
1
1,934
53
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
So Wayland, when one wants to use the alphabet (i've used the Germanic/Anglo one's a bit interchangeably) and you're short letters for a straight transfer of letters into english are there some traditional runes to use or do people just make them up?

for example, there's no q, v, z etc (I used to use the u rune interchangeably)

Hope that all makes sense :D
 
I would have thought if the letters were missing then they were not required by that people in their everyday life. One thing that may be interesting is (correct me if I am wrong) but we do not know if they used different pronounciations based on those letters to get another. These wouldn't be written down.

What is there to say that all the letters have been found, what if one piece of stone was broken off which was the letter Q?



So Wayland, when one wants to use the alphabet (i've used the Germanic/Anglo one's a bit interchangeably) and you're short letters for a straight transfer of letters into english are there some traditional runes to use or do people just make them up?

for example, there's no q, v, z etc (I used to use the u rune interchangeably)

Hope that all makes sense :D
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,613
239
Birmingham
I would have thought if the letters were missing then they were not required by that people in their everyday life. One thing that may be interesting is (correct me if I am wrong) but we do not know if they used different pronounciations based on those letters to get another. These wouldn't be written down.

What is there to say that all the letters have been found, what if one piece of stone was broken off which was the letter Q?

For a start it is still spoken, I belive, or some very close relatives. A lot of it is still in English as well. You can listen to the sagas as they would have been spoken.

You do have a point in one way, unlike our alaphet it does also have a symbol side. They each have a name, a meaning, can be used like prayers, and even combined to form different meanings. How the Vikings used this no one really knows for sure.

As for Ogham, as much as I hate to say this, Runes are much nicer looking. :(
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
24,182
1
1,934
53
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
yeah, i appreciate that they didn't use them but some people these days use them in a straight swap for the english alphabet, so my question was based on that.
 

Kerne

Maker
Dec 16, 2007
1,766
21
Gloucestershire
Thanks for the pics, Wayland - and the info. The ones I have seen most are the early germanic ones (I think). None of the alphabets seem too difficult to make stamps from - just got to find the time...
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
So Wayland, when one wants to use the alphabet (i've used the Germanic/Anglo one's a bit interchangeably) and you're short letters for a straight transfer of letters into english are there some traditional runes to use or do people just make them up?

for example, there's no q, v, z etc (I used to use the u rune interchangeably)

Hope that all makes sense :D

When transliterating into or out of runes it is important to remember that standardised spelling is a much later invention.

Runes are a phonetic system so it is the sound of the rune that is important.

Most book publishers that have limited understanding of the runes can't stand the idea that they cannot lay down a simple substitution set for the alphabet, so they fill the gaps by suggesting that the Viking rune for k can be simply be substituted for our c for example.

That sounds reasonable enough if you are inscribing the word "cat" > kat but consider the word "circle", it doesn't make sense as > kirkle does it? A better substitution would be s for the first c and k for the second c. > sirkle

With the letters above, it would all depend on the way they sound according to their use in the word you are transliterating.

Btw. The term "Alphabet" should not really be applied to the runes as it is specific to letter systems which start with A "Alpha" and B "Beta" hence "Alphabeta" shortened to just alphabet in common usage.

I would have thought if the letters were missing then they were not required by that people in their everyday life. One thing that may be interesting is (correct me if I am wrong) but we do not know if they used different pronounciations based on those letters to get another. These wouldn't be written down.

What is there to say that all the letters have been found, what if one piece of stone was broken off which was the letter Q?

The pronunciations have changed over the years as can be seen from words in our own language that are now pronounced in ways that bear no relation to the standard spellings frozen in time when laid down by Samuel Johnson's dictionary in 1755. Languages evolve quickly, spelling much more slowly.

Notice the Early Germanic a and the Viking o, same rune, different sound.

As for all the letters being found, the futhark, futhorc and futhork have all been found in multiple inscriptions so we can be reasonably confident that they have survived complete and intact.


Thanks for the pics, Wayland - and the info. The ones I have seen most are the early germanic ones (I think). None of the alphabets seem too difficult to make stamps from - just got to find the time...

As far as stamps go you should only need a short and a long bar to make any of the runes in theory. I make any inscriptions on my silverwork with just two chisels.
 

BCUK Shop

We have a a number of knives, T-Shirts and other items for sale.

SHOP HERE