Mother Nature? Oh, please......

[Andy BB]

I'm not expounding - its an accepted scientific principle - feel free to look it up

I suggest that species that "co-operative evolution" can mean that species have evolved to co-operate rather than co-operated in deciding an evolutionary trait.

Not according to probably the leading (and certainly most well-known) scientist in evolutionary biology, but no doubt some know better

 

[British Red]

Ahh so you say that co-operative evolution is

The concept of them getting round a table and agreeing on a mutual defense policy just doesn't happen

presumably the same person defines single species evolution as

a single species sitting round a table deciding how to mutate

The point surely is that species have evolved to co-operate? Evolution has selected inter-species co-operation as a beneficial survival trait - if this is so - surely it is conceivable that many species could evolve to co-operate?

 

[Jared]

Ah - ok. So anything with more than one cell is therefore a "self-regulating super-organism"? Not sure exactly where that gets us! How do you go from there to a justification that all the various elements are working together in a co-operative basis? Fact is that the humans who developed a more effective use of intestinal bacteria lived to spread their genes more effectively than those who did not. The concept of the Earth as a self-regulating super-organism doesn't seem to be worknig at the moment though, seeing as the most effective way to protect 99.9999999999% of life on Earth would be to destroy humans!

Oh it's definitely self-regulating. At some point our population will exceed our ability to grow food, and we will be regulated like any other plague.

 

[Imagedude]

Mother Earth? I think not. The Earth was created by Odin, Hoenir and Lodur (male) from the body of the giant Ymir (male). Surely Father Earth would be more appropriate.

 

[Toddy]

Typical male centric view, like Osiris 'seeding' the stars
How about the Earth is our Mother, and the Moon is our barren Aunt who gives casts light and watches over her sister's children in the dark, while Mannan is the god of the Waters and nutures the Earth to fertility? You can imagine how he caused the ice that covered the Earth to melt though

There are countless different views, tales, rationalisations.
I suspect from time immemorial people have tried to make sense of the world. From stars are "other hearths", to simple (complex?) superstition.
Human imagination is rich, and worldwide is astonishingly so

What the hang Disney was on though, I do not know
However, if faith was power, his characters ought to walk among us creating havoc like thon marshmallow man thingie in the Ghostbusters cartoon For a while every child seems to believe in cartoons.

Thing is though, we haven't worked out how belief somehow stimulates the hormones/ emotions to leave people feeling more secure, happier, etc.,

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Andy BB]

Typical male centric view, like Osiris 'seeding' the stars
How about the Earth is our Mother, and the Moon is our barren Aunt who gives casts light and watches over her sister's children in the dark, while Mannan is the god of the Waters and nutures the Earth to fertility? You can imagine how he caused the ice that covered the Earth to melt though

There are countless different views, tales, rationalisations.
I suspect from time immemorial people have tried to make sense of the world. From stars are "other hearths", to simple (complex?) superstition.
Human imagination is rich, and worldwide is astonishingly so

What the hang Disney was on though, I do not know
However, if faith was power, his characters ought to walk among us creating havoc like thon marshmallow man thingie in the Ghostbusters cartoon For a while every child seems to believe in cartoons.

Thing is though, we haven't worked out how belief somehow stimulates the hormones/ emotions to leave people feeling more secure, happier, etc.,

cheers,
Toddy

I'd disagree with that last bit (surprising, I know )

Superstition acts to counter the fear of death - its really as simple as that. People fear dying, and its much "comfier" to believe that there is an afterlife, whether its in Odin's halls or the noodly appendages of the FSM..........Some are peculiarly depressing - one Amazonian tribe believes that your soul inhabits the body of a jaguar, to wander the rainforests in solitude for eternity - but still... Add onto that that it serves as an explanation for all of those things that Man does not yet understand, and you've got yourself a winner. Throw in childhood indoctrination and penalties for disbelief (ranging from hellfire and eternal damnation in the hereafter to death in this world for apostasy) and it gets pretty persuasive. Throw in the comfort blanket that your particular god is looking after you in this life and you have all the feel-good elements combined!

and Man - ever with an eye for the main chance - recognises that it is a wonderful political control tool too............... The Romans might have had bread and circuses for the masses, but control of the afterlife is much more powerful!

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Actually most bear species are omniverous.

Indeed they are (except polar bears) but the panda's dentition & short intestinal tract indicates that it was more carnivorous than Yogi

When Pandas evolved into bamboo eaters (specialists) that in and of itself pretty much limited their habitat.

When we became cereal eaters, that pretty much limited our habitat.

 

[JohnC]

Thing is though, we haven't worked out how belief somehow stimulates the hormones/ emotions to leave people feeling more secure, happier, etc. cheers, Toddy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/21131703

Oddly enough I saw this this morning about animals being chums..

 

[AndyJDickson]

IMO Mother Earth is an amazing theory and one to embraced if it helps the lay person (not one of us crowd) appreciate the land more. I do take a keen interest in the Native Americas and they were extraordinary in their skils of buscraft, survival and conservation and they firms believe in this.

I myself believe in alot of things including the 'power of the earth', Jesus and science and I think a melody of all is a combination to greater knowledge. I have been thinking recently (with a pipe by the fire) that we are progressing alot in some areas of science (mainly physics) but biology advances have seemed to cease at the theory of evolution. This brings me to the questions of are we really open minded enough to advance at the rate we have been?

 

[Cliv]

A little confusing this thread, I don't know if this is helpful but I heard this quote as a child I have never forgotten it.

Martian: There is no secret. Anyone with eyes can see the way to live

Wilder: How?

Martian: By watching life, observing nature, cooperating with it. Making common cause with the process of existence

Wilder: How?

Martian: By living life for itself don’t you see, deriving pleasure from the gift of pure being

Wilder: The gift of pure being

Martian: Life is its own answer, accept it and enjoy it day by day. Live as well as possible, expect no more.
Destroy nothing, humble nothing, look for fault in nothing, leave unsullied and untouched all that is beautiful. Hold that which lives in all reverence, for life is given by the sovereign of our universe, given to be savoured, to be luxuriated in, to be … respected.

But that’s no secret, you’re intelligent, you know as well as I what must be done

(From the ‘Martian Chronicles’ TV Mini-series)

I have always thought that this pretty much sums it up

I will now depart to my bunker

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

A little confusing this thread, I don't know if this is helpful but I heard this quote as a child I have never forgotten it.

Martian: There is no secret. Anyone with eyes can see the way to live

Wilder: How?

Martian: By watching life, observing nature, cooperating with it. Making common cause with the process of existence

Wilder: How?

Martian: By living life for itself don’t you see, deriving pleasure from the gift of pure being

Wilder: The gift of pure being

Martian: Life is its own answer, accept it and enjoy it day by day. Live as well as possible, expect no more.
Destroy nothing, humble nothing, look for fault in nothing, leave unsullied and untouched all that is beautiful. Hold that which lives in all reverence, for life is given by the sovereign of our universe, given to be savoured, to be luxuriated in, to be … respected.

But that’s no secret, you’re intelligent, you know as well as I what must be done

(From the ‘Martian Chronicles’ TV Mini-series)

I have always thought that this pretty much sums it up

I will now depart to my bunker

Excellent mate!

 

[woodspirits]

never watched the program, so the martian was a buddhist then?

 

[wicca]

never watched the program, so the martian was a buddhist then?

Snap!..same wavelength..

 

[santaman2000]

IMO Mother Earth is an amazing theory and one to embraced if it helps the lay person (not one of us crowd) appreciate the land more. I do take a keen interest in the Native Americas and they were extraordinary in their skils of buscraft, survival and conservation and they firms believe in this....

Many believe this fictionalized ideal. The reality is that they could be just as wastefuls as we are today. Particularly before Columbus landed and the Europeans brought horses and gunpowder.

One of the most common hunting methods was to set fire to the woods and wait for the fire to drive the deer to them. Or to stampede buffalo(the entire herd) over a cliff.

And not all nations were neccessarily hunter'gatherers that would have been so skilled at bushcraft; many were farmering cultures. The Anastazi even had stone villages built into the cliffs.

 

[Andy BB]

Ah - the good old story about the "noble savage" in North America being an example to us all, living at peace with each other and their surroundings! I suppose it is, if you include raiding, murder, kidnapping, rape, slavery and ritual torture as an ideal............................. So pretty much like virtually every early-stage development of homo sapiens then!

 

[santaman2000]

And lets not forget human sacrifice and ritual canabalism.

 

[British Red]

So pretty much like virtually every early-stage development of homo sapiens then!

Why "early stage" as a matter of interest - those things are still happening today

 

[Shewie]

Moved to Other Chatter

 

[Andy BB]

Why "early stage" as a matter of interest - those things are still happening today

True - but at least in the more "advanced" countries, they're frowned upon, not part of state policy!

 

[Elen Sentier]

Treading on thin philosophical ice here Red - what is love? Do kids love there parents? Or deep down is it a need for food and protection? Does a dog that greets it's owner and noone else by wagging it's tale show affection? Or is it merely recognising the hand that feeds it.

What is Love?

(Baby don't hurt me...) etc.

Nice one ... *chuckle*