Mother Nature? Oh, please......

[British Red]

Erhm, the Wild Hunt comes to mind......and if you've ever seen humans as a gang pack hunting, yeah that's brutal.

Nothing wrong with the Herlaþing - much more sensible anthropomorphic deity than many - and at least realtively local - can't stand those cheap imported ones.

I suspect that half those old tales are firmly rooted in humanity's supposed 'idyllic' natural past, and it's not that peaceful.

Just like the present then really. Human beings are just animals after all - nothing will change those animal insticts and pack mentality - much as we like to pretend otherwise

 

[woodspirits]

Come now Woodspirits. Do you not find the Monty Pythonesque twitchings of the scientifically biased, as amusing as the wailing and threats of damnation issued by the men in strange pointed hats and clutching shepherds crooks, based in Canterbury and Rome??

both are equally entertaining in their own way wicca, im happy where i am as i suspect you are too. but its all about personal choice eh?

 

[TurboGirl]

Come now Woodspirits. Do you not find the Monty Pythonesque twitchings of the scientifically biased, as amusing as the wailing and threats of damnation issued by the men in strange pointed hats and clutching shepherds crooks, based in Canterbury and Rome??

Ahhh, we're all as bad as each other, I had to point a priestess west into the sunset once and Father Ted.... classic I'm a Born Again Funda-Mentalist myself.....

 

[Andy BB]

Come now Woodspirits. Do you not find the Monty Pythonesque twitchings of the scientifically biased, as amusing as the wailing and threats of damnation issued by the men in strange pointed hats and clutching shepherds crooks, based in Canterbury and Rome??

don't get me started on organised religion! Guaranteed thread-locker!

But as to science v religion - tell you what - we'll build two identical wood piles. I'll light mine with a scientifically-designed Bic, you light yours with prayer, and the winner is the first one to get a roaring flame

 

[Paddytray]

im pagan but not too stupid i look at nature and read through the myths and stories and realize that people put faces on everything they want to exsplain to thier CHILDREN it makes it easier to exsplain . and then religion is born from ones who cant shut up and just enjoy what they take from the exsplanations theyre given. Its easy to she how earth got the lable mother earth . the earth is a one off as far as we know and all life was born from it . and then there is biochemistry & atomic structure that tells us that nothing is actually solid anywhere in any galaxy so does some mystical force hold it all together I don't know or worry about not knowing I just keep an eye out and look after what I can keep a clean camp out of respect for the location and wildlife oh and Cernunnos.

 

[Andy BB]

Those last few words made me laugh out loud! Nice one Paddy

 

[Toddy]

don't get me started on organised religion! Guaranteed thread-locker!

But as to science v religion - tell you what - we'll build two identical wood piles. I'll light mine with a scientifically-designed Bic, you light yours with prayer, and the winner is the first one to get a roaring flame

..........but you forgot the Bushcrafter........who probably knows both but manages to make a bowdrill

M

 

[wicca]

don't get me started on organised religion! Guaranteed thread-locker!

But as to science v religion - tell you what - we'll build two identical wood piles. I'll light mine with a scientifically-designed Bic, you light yours with prayer, and the winner is the first one to get a roaring flame

Ah! Can't help you there, you'd need to challenge someone who is religious..

 

[woodspirits]

theres one or two of our regulars at NW that morph into Cernunnos after a few cans of strongbow!

 

[Andy BB]

..........but you forgot the Bushcrafter........who probably knows both but manages to make a bowdrill

M

Actually it'd be a pretty even contest - my firelighting skills are notoriously poor

 

[santaman2000]

Thats actually an interesting proposition. However, evolutionary theory specifically states that it applies solely to individual species, and not in any "co-operative" manner with other species.....

Yes but current evolutionary theory believs that life originated as single cell life and evolved to more complex life forms. With clusters of cells of a single type performing one function (say brain cells) and clusters of another type of cells performoing a different function (say intestinal cells) within the more complex organism. What's to say that planetary evolution isn't the next step?

 

[santaman2000]

Thought you'd say that.....see post 57................so if a species becomes endangered through human activity, it's the fault of evolution.?........Pandas have already 'evolved ' & adapted to an enviromental change when they turned from being carnivores into Bamboo eaters which is pretty impressive in evolutionary terms.....

Actually most bear species are omniverous. When Pandas evolved into bamboo eaters (specialists) that in and of itself pretty much limited their habitat.

 

[santaman2000]

....And no, Mother nature doesn't take care of us; she provides for us. And as long as the inhabitants of the Earth honour that by not taking more than needed, she will continue to do so.... But here is were some evolutionary faults within humans come into play; greed and hunger for power. You don't find those in any other living thing on this planet. Those two faults will be our undoing, unless we evolve and overcome them. So human behaviour is a part of our evolution, too.

Actually most animals fight for the right to breed (wolves in particular fight to the death) That is the basis of almost all hunger for power; an evolutionary trait in and of itself.

 

[santaman2000]

I think we may have less time than that.........As the earth's core is cooling we risk loosing our electro magnetic shield & so life on this planet will be fried by solar radiation.................................then there's the tiny matter of the Milky way colliding with Adromeda........which will come first, the death of the sun or the astral orgy.. ?
Now if we can only find a Stargate, our futur will be secured.

Lets not forget that the moon is also getting farther away (about two feet farthat will dwarf any and every thing er per year) and will likely loose from its orbit before the sun goes nova. The climate change from that will dwarf any and every thing we're experiencing today.

 

[British Red]

However, evolutionary theory specifically states that it applies solely to individual species, and not in any "co-operative" manner with other species (and potentially even its own).

How do symbiotic relationships develop ? Surely mutalism within symbiosis is a textbook example of "co-operative evolution" Clownfish protect anemones and in return are protected by them The Clownfish has evolved a protective mucus from the anemone stings.....even better perhaps siboglinid tube worms that are wholly dependant on bacterial strains for nutrition - they will literally become extinct without them so close is the mutualism.

 

[greensurfingbear]

Interestingly the Inuit I lived many moons ago with didn't like the idea of letting their kids watch Disney type movies. They didn't like thinking of animals as people. As far as they were concerned anthropomorphising animals was down right strange.

Not bothered either way what folk feel about nature, worship it or not all I ask is that they try to appreciate and look after it. there ain't any life boats on this rocket ship

Orric

 

[greensurfingbear]

Ahhh, we're all as bad as each other, I had to point a priestess west into the sunset once and Father Ted.... classic I'm a Born Again Funda-Mentalist myself.....

All for putting the fun back into fundamentalist me


Orric

 

[pastymuncher]

Is this just about animals or does this mean I cant call my boat a she then.

 

[Andy BB]

How do symbiotic relationships develop ? Surely mutalism within symbiosis is a textbook example of "co-operative evolution" Clownfish protect anemones and in return are protected by them The Clownfish has evolved a protective mucus from the anemone stings.....even better perhaps siboglinid tube worms that are wholly dependant on bacterial strains for nutrition - they will literally become extinct without them so close is the mutualism.

simple per the evolutionary theory - the clownfish that developed a mutation protecting them from the anemone stings survived better than the ones that didn't and therefore the mutated gene fish prospered. Ditto with the tube worms. The concept of them getting round a table and agreeing on a mutual defense policy just doesn't happen, whatever Disney says Again it must be stressed that evolution occurs within a single species when mutations beneficial to that species become dominant due to their increased survival rates. This "mutualism" you expound is just a side effect of that. The fact that this change has a beneficial impact on another species is incidental - in some cases its good, in other cases bad. Re the clownfish scenario, the spin-off is that the additional food source for the anemones allowed them to grow in number and size had a spooling-on effect of providing more shelter to the clownfish, in this case a good result for both species!

 

[British Red]

I'm not expounding - its an accepted scientific principle - feel free to look it up

I suggest that species that "co-operative evolution" can mean that species have evolved to co-operate rather than co-operated in deciding an evolutionary trait.