Who do you believe? the government or the whole of nature?

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Gagnrad

Forager
Jul 2, 2010
108
0
South East
I used that title for a bit of fun - which I'll get to in a minute.

But this thread is really to make a book recommendation. I'm now part-way through a book that I think many people here might enjoy for the insight it gives into biological life, human and non-human. Specifically, the book explains how that life is related to cycles of light and dark and the seasons of the year - IOW, ultimately to the movement of the planet.

The book is Lights out: sleep sugar and survival:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lights-out-TS-WILEY/dp/0671038680/

Anyway, now for my bit of fun. As anyone who's awake knows, what makes you fat is excessive consumption of carbohydrates. The women's magazines - and the government - will tell you its eating fat. But it's not. Do these nicompoops never even stop to think why the stomach on overweight men is called a beer-belly? And the failure of low-fat diets - and the health problems they cause - are glaringly obvious enough by now and ought to be a national scandal. Now, I think many people here will have some reading in the ethnographic material and will know that people living by the chase ate up to 80% of their calories as fat. And you can live better on that than on what passes for a "healthy" diet among ourselves. The anthropologist and explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson proved this personally back in the 1950s when the low-fat nonsense first surfaced:

http://www.zerocarbage.com/library/FOTL.pdf

He'd eaten like this for years when living with the Eskimo:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Eskimo-New-Vilhjalmur-Stefansson/dp/1594626510/

And the Eskimo, of course, had been eating like it for aeons. They enjoyed superb health on it. But they, poor people, are now prey to all the diseases of modern civilization since they began eating as we do. And no-one ever saw a fat Eskimo - or a fat Maasai for the matter of that.

Anyway, some people will be aware of low-carbohydrate diets - and that they work. But one of the interesting aspects of this book is how it puts that in context.

Sugar is effectively crystallized sunshine. Fruit ripens through the long summer days and is there in late summer and early autumn. And, in nature, it's only available seasonally. So what does every bird, every vole, almost every damn creature out there do? They eat as many berries and whatnot as they can at that time in order to put on fat for the winter. That gives you a fat-pad to insulate you against the cold, and fat stores to draw on for energy. that's what they all do: they eat carbohydrates to get fat. So who are you going to believe? The government or the whole of nature. Of course, if you keep stuffing carbohydrates year-round (not just fruit, but, in human society, bread and booze) then you never get to the winter state. And, if you keep on, keep on doing it, then eventually you get insulin-resistant (c.f. Type 2 diabetes), you stop putting on fat, and your bloodstream starts filling up with glucose. And there's a biological reason for that: animals that become insulin resistant are then able to hibernate and damn near freeze without their cells sustaining damage. The sugar acts as an antifreeze - rather as ethylene glycol does in a car's cooling system. It also holds in water, so they have their own endogenous water while they hibernate. But, of course, humans never do hibernate ...

We're living in a permanently summer-state, where electric light prolongs the daylight hours (which, in itself, increases people's appetite for carbohydrates), and where sugary foods are available 24/7.

Anyway, there's much more in the book. The authors say that the only animals apart from Man that get cancer are domestic pets. Why? Because they live with us, they don't get enough sleep and what sleep they do get is rendered less effective by light-pollution. It seems that when you sleep your body releases melatonin, and that down-regulates other hormones. If it's not dark enough, that can't happen. And woe-betide you if your hormones get out of balance. Researchers have found out that shining a low-intensity light-source behind a subject's knee, is enough to stop him producing and secreting melatonin. Also, as many people will know, your gut hold about 4 pounds of bacteria that help you digest food and act as your immune system. Now it seems that harmful organisms among these can proliferate, but when you sleep these get thinned out. If you don't sleep enough, your immune system gets badly compromised.

In fine, sleep is very important - certainly far more so than people have realized. It should also be in total darkness. Not so long ago - just about within living memory - people got nine to ten hours sleep a night in winter (when you should get more in accordance with the natural cycle of the Earth.) Now, thanks to Mr. Eddison's invention, we can sit up past bedtime in a never-ending summer. And, when we do go to bed, we don't get the effects we should be getting because the council's got a streetlamp outside the window that leaks around the curtains. We pay the price in our health.

Anyway, the book is a hugely enlightening and important one that could literally save lives. It's also a fascinating glimpse into how life has evolved in sync with the movement of the planet.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,637
S. Lanarkshire
Mice and rats get cancer, so do horses, so do frogs and sealions.

As I understand it, being of the fair skinned and inclined to freckle variety myself, that the crucial vitamin is D in our relatively sunless northern skies. Apparantly rickets is back because children spend so long indoors.
I still need only four hours average sleep in summer but I can sleep the clock round in Winter, and I am definitely well padded :D.........I'm also a gluten intolerant vegan, so that argument won't hold.

The book seems full of sound bites.

cheers,
Toddy
 
Nature intends for every thing to live only as long as its able to breed once done its surpluss to requirements so humans really anything beyond 30 ish is a freek of natures intention as we have evolved ofspringthat need a fair long time looking after before they can cope on their own unlike lots ofothers where parents die imediatly after spawning so most things dont live long enough or have already passed on teh genes so get sick only us Humans push the limits and find our bodies havent evolved yet to cope with old age etc and as we still breed relativly young we havnet culled out the short lived befroe etc human eveolution will only move on naturally once we stop the every body lives every body breeds medical mentality

ATB

Duncan
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
I'm guessing or ancestor didn't worry to much about having total darkness to sleep in either, i'm sure most houses before central heating would have a fire going, some in the bed room or some beds would just be in the room where the fire was, If sleeping outside you would only have total darknes for mabey 6-8 nights a month when the moon is dark, but then you've got star shine or in winter a fire again.

Yup I tend to agree with Toddy, it sounds like a jump onto a profitable band wagon.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
I think the problems of high carb low fat diet in cold climate are well known but low fat high carb works fine in warmer climates, 5 billion Chinese seem to do OK on it and I am just back from Japan which has one of the lowest fat diets and longest lived healthiest populations. Getting fat is a simple equation about how many calories you put in the boiler and how many you burn off, makes little difference what form the energy comes in. Of course the majority of the western world are eating a highly refined diet whether it be carbs or fats neither of which is "natural". The quickest easiest way to get fat is pile in a load of calories and then go to bed, what is your body meant to do with it? The easiest way to get rid of it? Get up and do 20 minutes hard exercise before eating anything, where is the energy going to come from?

All the stuff about summer and winter and light, I thought man was meant to have evolved and spent most of his existence close to the equator? I am not poo pooing it all, any book that makes us ask questions is good, I just tend to be wary of sweeping polemics.
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,198
1,568
Cumbria
The OP sounds like he has just read a book that interests him and has taken in the book's arguments hook line and sinker ignoring other ideas and evidence along the way. Cranks have ideas, cranks write a plausible book and suckers buy the book. Its the same old thing. BTW a guy called Atkins came up with a low carb diet you might of heard of it. IIRC he died obese of a heart attack after living his own diet so I'd personally follow the bulk of nutritional advice from true experts and not people who have a book to sell. That means I eat aa so called balanced diet. I have a suitable mix of fats, carbs and proteins that suit my body and my activity. I do eat more fats in winter as it is a slow burn source that is good for maintaining warmth when no too active. I will increase my carbs when working hard as I do tend to run through the carbs and when low I practically have to stop until re-fuelled in them. I also like to eaat plain peanuts just before a cold night out as it has protein, fats and carbs in a mix that is higher in proteins and fats than the ideal which is good for muscle regen and the fats for maintaining warmth in cold. Thermogenisis is also good as it will happen at about the time you are dropping off.

Anyway Thee OP sounds like a sucker for the crank stuff peddled in book form. Sorry if that offends you OP but it is my opinion that these sorts of books select the research and evidence that suits an agenda or a publishing brief. You can always find research that "proves" pretty much whatever you want without a better view on the evidence and research, which IMHO requires you to do a degree level course in an appropriate subject such as nutrition and not just a certificate in it. Do you know whether the research the book quotes is credible? Do you know whether is has been contradicted byt 100 other research? Do you know whether the statements of truth in the book based on research and evidence has even used peer reviewed research, evidence and published research in learned journals. Perhaps you just believe that all the learned journals and peer reviewed research that contradicts the books sources is some conspiracy against the truth?

You say animals eat berries to store as fat for winter. Yes but they contain carbs predominantly. That means they are eating mainly carbs and not less carbs as your book says we should be eating. I am probably wrong here but it seems the statements and "facts" they say actually contradict their own narrative.

Can I suggest to people reading the first post on this thread that they don't change their diet based on a book like this? The current advice is still the best we have and chances are the health problems we as a species do have are more to do with us not following that diet and lifestyle advice and advances in medicine keeping us alive longer so a lot of the deseases and conditions common today wouldn't have appeared as often as we wouldn't have lived as long.
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,806
1,533
51
Wiltshire
I like my fat, it keeps me warm in winter.

As for carrying round the weight, i need the exercise
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,198
1,568
Cumbria
Well I used to fatten up for winter whitewater paddling then thin down for summer of walking, backpacking and the like. It was the bits in between when I was neither fat enough to keep warm nor thin enough to make a difference when walking.

The range was about 1-2 stone in weight. not sure if it did me much good but althhough I preferred to be on the thinner side I did get very cold in winter when paddling. I do think that it does help to fatten up if going to somewhere cold. BTW whenever I have seen Innuits on TV for example they looked as if they had a bit of fat to them too. I hope that doesn't offend but they seem to me to be like that unlike what someone said above. Might be fat but not obese. That problem is different and down to diet and inactivity. Eat only what you need or exercise to the level that you eat. Simples. We are a compliicated machine in the simplest way afterall.
 

_mark_

Settler
May 3, 2010
537
0
Google Earth
I wrote quite a lengthy response about excessive calorie intake and inactivity but realized all I really wanted to say was wow, just wow!
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,198
1,568
Cumbria
only 21.5C according to my car sensor in the Lakes. Day off so very happy! Picked the right day. not hard to do as I only asked for day off afternoon on the day before.

Nice on Windermere paddling around in old kayak. Then a nice bit of carbs in the form of a beer and some crisps afterwards. Did me no harm.

half day tomorrow then offski into the hills. A bit of a pain the great north swim thingy at that hotel on the side of windermere. Way too much traffic this coming weekend. Why couldn't they have it on another lake or the other side and not on the main road through the Lakes. I mean it is likely to be quicker to get from Kendal to Keswick or even Grasmere via the M6 and Penrith junction this weekend.

Anyone see the Ambleside outdoor festivall that is coming up had bushcraft on it? When I looked it was for kids but they had very little events up so might have more stuff on it. Off topic but might be of interest to some. Kind of like the Grasmere thing a few years ago, Head for the Hills IIRC.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,432
626
Knowhere
Well with our bigger brains (and bellies) we have transcended nature, or have we?

What is it that gives us our bigger brains anyway but nature, and what do we make everything we use out of but what the earth provides even if that is the transmogrified ingredients of long dead plant life.

In one sense we can never escape nature, on the other hand not everything natural is good either.
 

wentworth

Settler
Aug 16, 2004
573
2
40
Australia
Eating more of any macronutrient than your caloric budget requires will make you gain weight. Not just carbohydrates.
Eat less.
 

pteron

Acutorum Opifex
Nov 10, 2003
389
12
59
Wiltshire
pteron.org
In the OPs defence there is definitely something in it and I'm afraid that my experience of nutritionists does not fill me with confidence that they have it right. The Americans (who are often ahead on these things) have changed their food pyramid from the one that UK nutritionists are still recommending see http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/food_pyramid.shtml - the previous recommendation to eat loads of carbs has been quite drastically changed. This is in line with the OPs assertion. If you are interested in how the health and food landscape is changing I recommend Dr Briffa's site, he keeps his finger on the pulse of recent developments.

Paul_B where are you finding these peer reviewed studies on eating loads of carbs being good for you? I can't. The fact of the matter is that modern agriculture is perhaps 10 to 20 thousand years old. That isn't enough for us to have evolved to deal with the change in diet from that we had previously. We were pretty much scavengers, eating berries, nuts, seeds and meat if we could get it. We'd generally be last at the kill, so we'd end up with the (fatty) bone marrow. The romantic notion of a hunter gatherer knocking off fresh kudu every day is a Hollywood fiction. We simply didn't have the modern purified carbs in our diet and I firmly believe this is why we have such a prevalence of type 2 diabetes in our culture. Ray Kurzweil believes it too - he applied it to his type 2 and cured himself.

If you need degrees to back it up - my wife is an anthropologist and studied this stuff.

For what its worth, we've been living the low carb diet for a while now and have lost significant weight, never catch the bugs that fly around the workplace and my wife's recent blood test showed the blood work of a teenager (she is significantly older than that). The doctor wanted to know what she'd been doing to achieve it.

So there you go. Someone has to break the trail and there is often a lot of vested interest in the status quo.
 

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