More restrictions??

[Swampy Matt]

If they have to ban a knife there is no knife more worthy of banning than the Stanley. I have had knives pulled on me on far too many occasions (grew up and lived in some dodgy areas ) and it has always been a Stanley style knife that the idiot was waving around.

These things cost a couple of quid, are available from hardwear stores, supermarkets, newsagents, etc and no-one bats an eyelid when you purchase one as every builder, plumber, chippy and sparkey has one in their tool box.

I used to have one in my tool box until i realised that there is no job that they can do that can't be done better with my Opinel or my Petzl Spatha (which is an awesome UK legal carry knife - looks funky too!)

On the other hand, what level is this going to be taken to? a few years back i saw a guy stabbed with a steel ball point pen. the wound was really nasty, but fortunately the guy survived. So do we start a campaign to ban BIROS? (they are being used as weapons against freedom by pen pushing bureaucrats!)

or was this just an example of the pen being mightier than the sword

 

[leon-1]

I think that what has been said before about education is on the correct track, people need to be educated and not just kids adults as well.

How many of those people that are campaigning for a ban have to use a knife for work for instance, when at home are they so adventurous to actually cook something from scratch or is it a case that they get their meals precooked in something that can be thrown in a microwave or conventional oven for X amount of minutes. If they are well enough payed they may not even eat at home at all!!!!!

The problem is that good intentions often go awry and although the intention is good the thought process behind it is flawed.

If they want to go mad on things why don't they just ban cars, they enable criminals to get to and from thier crime scenes without being noticed, they can be used for transporting illegal goods, the people behind the wheel kill X amount of people per year (both drunk drivers and sober), they are harmfull to the enviroment and they are a massive drain on our police resources.

They don't ban cars because cars are a tool, if they are abused then they could view it as the cars fault, a knife is exactly the same, in the end it is not the object as they have no will of thier own, but the person controlling said object and the sooner people realise this the better

Sorry rant over

 

[BorderReiver]

One thing has always amused (worried,frightened the sh t out of ) me is that the events which triggered the two big bannings where caused by mentally deranged men with access to firearms.
NOW,we have lots of young men coming back from war zones who have been severely traumatised.They are trained in the use of,and have access to the very types of weapons that were used by the two guys who caused all the trouble.
How long will it be before one of these poor damaged sods does something serious? What will HMG ban then?

 

[leon-1]

One other thing about all this, some races in the UK carry knives as part of tradition and religion are they then going to tell these people "Sorry you can't carry that anymore, nevermind, here's a rather ornate and pretty spoon instead".

It would appear that we have got used to the politicians giving it "blah, blah, blah"
and the populace appear to be giving it "Baaahh, Baaahh, Baaahh".

EDIT;

I will now apologise for starting to get political as this forum is totally non political and should be kept so

 

[Swampy Matt]

With you on the education one Leon.

I've done various demos with knives for Martial Arts/self defence purposes, in one of these i present a selection of different styles of knife in front of the group and discuss the ORIGINAL purpose of the knife, whether it was designed as a weapon or a tool.

I have always been amazed by the number of people who are suprised that a knife was ever designed to be 'just' a tool. Even if they do know that some knives are 'just tools' they always seem to get it wrong - a machete is always percieved as a tool (in spite of Daily Mail type flag waving reports about 'vicious machete attacks') however a kukhri is always regarded as a weapon because "those gurkha soldiers carry them". I always have to explain that they are really just regional variations on the same thing.

But is banning Knives really going to make a difference. The knee jerk reactions after Hungerford and Dunblane have done nothing to reduce gun crime - its actually on the increase. Knives are banned in prison, but anyone with a cigarette lighter and a plastic eating utensil can make a servicable stabbing implement.

 

[Swampy Matt]

One other thing about all this, some races in the UK carry knives as part of tradition and religion

Its members of the Sikh religion that are required to carry a knife as one of five articles that signify their religion. Historically the Sikhs come from the warrior caste of Hindu society and were greatly persecuted in the early days of their religion. The knife is a symbol of their will to DEFEND their religion to the death.

Essentially we all have a reason to carry a knife as part of tradition. The knife/hand axe is generally regarded as mankinds first tool, and it is tool use and design that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. Therefore we all should have the inalienable right to carry a knife.

Incidentally i saw a Sikh guy in a fight once (he was a mate at school). before the fight kicked off he removed his 'Kara/gara' (a thick, ridged, steel bangle also required as on of the five religious articles) and held it in his hand like a knuckle duster (also a banned weapon!) he dropped both the guys who attacked him with one punch each!!!
the point behind this? - Let them ban what they want - those who want weapons will always find a way to get them and those who want tools will always find a way of getting them too.

 

[Fluxus]

Have I wandered into a paranoid US militia forum by mistake?

 

[MartiniDave]

Some of the proposals coming out now re knives and guns echo very closely the standing orders issued by the Nazis following the invasion of the Channel Islands in WW2!

What WAS it that our lads were fighting for back then?

 

[Stuart]

Have I wandered into a paranoid US militia forum by mistake?

what makes you say that? the thread is discussing proposals to ban the sale of knives.

 

[Minotaur]

Ban under 18 from having mobiles! They are the cause of this particular problem.

Oh, I forgot, Mobile Phone companies would spend lots of backdoor money to keep their best customers.

 

[Womble]

Essentially we all have a reason to carry a knife as part of tradition. The knife/hand axe is generally regarded as mankinds first tool, and it is tool use and design that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. Therefore we all should have the inalienable right to carry a knife.

Hmm....

 

[Ranger Bob]

From the early saxon period, wearing a knife was a symbol of a mans freedom!

What is this country coming too?!!!!

Banning knives or even just preventing ill minded peoples purchasing them, isn't going to solve the problem! As has already been said, they'll just resort to a different object.....a screwdriver, a board with a nail in it, a shoe, a grand piano....

Its a typical alarmist reaction, typical of the kind that seems to be plaguing this country.

I think the government claims that 80% of people are in favour of an outright ban.....well 80% of people can be 100% wrong!

But how can we go about educating people about knives and their infinate uses????

I'm not usually pesimistic, but I can't see this charade working out in our favour...

and I know all of the above has been said before...I just had to get it out of my system!

 

[Goose]

I think one of the problems might be the people selling knives. I know there are dealers/collectors out there and I dont mean that side of the market.
I took a friend out a couple of weeks ago to look for a knife, he had been told of a market stall that was good for knives , the guy(who had been selling knives for 40 or more years he told me) had on display some nasty looking weapons and one hollow handle cheap and nasty survival knife. I asked if he had something along the lines of a mora, he had never heard of them or frosts. I described my knife and he said as it was swedish it would cost too much!(at least £50 for a swedish steel blade)he told me it must be a cheap import when I told him how much I had paid!
I think the majority of people see knives for sale in places like this, selling the "coolest" looking knives to late teens early twenties on impulse buys who see the tool as a weapon and this does genuine knife users no good whatsoever.
If a "specialist" knife dealer doesn't know about proper tools what chance does any person who's only knowledge of knives(or guns,hunting, insert next item here) comes from the tabloids have of understanding why anybody would want to walk round the woods with a knife?

I think the best person for changing attitudes at the moment is Mr Mears as he is the only person that a high percentage of the population has seen or heard of using knives as tools.

My rant is over! I apologise to all the knife dealers out there it is not aimed at them but at the cheap, shiny, dangerous looking end of the trade.

 

[Fluxus]

what makes you say that? the thread is discussing proposals to ban the sale of knives.

I guess having just visited the hoodlums forum at www.survival.com, i reckoned that stuff like this :

These thugs aren't the sharpest tool in the box but if our courts give out the same treatment time after time after time then sooner or later the thugs will get the message.
Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if they are reabilitated or not so long as they are locked away and can't do anymore damage or upset to innocent people.

would fit in there pretty well.

I don't do the knife fetish thing so the fuss just seems a bit alarmist and elitist.
also just being a little facetious - sorry,

 

[bambodoggy]

Flux, me old mukka.... you've taken me a little out of context there Mate!!!

I guess if you just read that bit then it is a little harsh sounding, however, back in it's actual context I stand by what I have said....the gist of which was;

"We have laws in places already to deal with thugs that carry knifes (guns, sticks, clubs etc) and that if the courts consistantly came down hard on people that use these items inapproprietly as weapons then I personally believe we'd have far less problems.
I also stand by my opinion that if thugs like that are safely locked up then they are not able to be out doing very bad things to inocent people".

We all agree (more or less) that banning things doesn't stop the problem it mearly moves it on to something else.

You'd never believe I was actually quite a laid back sort of person in the flesh now would you! lol

There was a similar arguement for banning Pitt Bulls and other breeds of dog because a few idiots had trained theirs to be vicous (or not trained them at all)... and I was firmly behind the campain then to "Punish the deed, not the breed". Same applies here, punish the offender for the Assault or whatever they've done but the knife, screwdriver, hatchet etc etc etc is mearly a tool and not the actual offender itself.

Hope that's a little clearer for you to understand Flux

Cheers,

Bam.

(Oh and I'm with you on the knife fetish thing too Mate, I only own about three but I don't want to be stopped from using them just because certain muppets out there can't behave themselves!!! )

 

[innocent bystander]

Thing is though, the article started with "kitchen knives". Presumably to stop some p*ssed up twot running in to a shop, buying a steak knife and running out and stabbing someone. So i can slightly see where a cooling off could come -stop the spur of moment crimes, like the law in some states for handguns. Trouble with the article is that it got truncated to just plain "knives". The way i read it, it isn't radicaly different to the laws now - there is no real reason to need to be tooled up to pop into the local for a couple of pints. And as for running around a shooping center, or other "public place" with a knife? Because that the sort of place i think they mean.

I bet they wouldn't bat an eyelid if you carried you bushcrafty gear off the beaten track.

 

[Neiltoo]

Does anyone know what these scotish policemen actually said? Having done a google media search the herald is aparently the only paper to have reported it.

On a common sense sort of level - Kitchen knives tend to be found in kitchens ( funny that)

There are a lot more kitchens in the land than shops that sell kitchen knives so if you needed a kitchen knife in a hurry to do something illegal would you
A. wait till the shops open and go buy one
B. lift one from the closest kitchen.

Now maybe these policemen were quoted out of context and maybe they were not.
If they were not Im very glad I dont live in Scotland

 

[Toddy]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/t...ing-off--move-on-buying-knives-name_page.html

http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.co.uk/content/default.asp?page=s1_1_1&newsid=7925

Don't know if these give any more detail, but the reports would indicate that the call for consideration of the cooling off period is correct.

Toddy

 

[innocent bystander]

Bit of fuzzy sort of story really isn't it ?
Another law isn't a clampdown. Draughting in a few bus loads of coppers on a friday night and searching everyone is. If i remember correctly, out of some 800 or so laws, over a quarter have been drafted in the last 8 years. And most of those offences cited, can be covered by the other thre quarters. Scary old world...

 

[Neiltoo]

Its not the world thats scary its 90% of the people on it