Lost opportunity?

[cbr6fs]

BillyBlade I'm happy you agree with someone else's post, I have no problem with that.

I'm also happy that you read this thread and gave it a moments thought, that is the whole intent of it and is aided when people engage with the discussion.

I am even amused by your use comments like "Bile" and "Holier than thou" when they would seem to apply far more your own style of posting.

But let me make something very clear... I am going to Norway whether this course runs or not. I am even going if both courses are cancelled because I am determined to live a life a little less ordinary. That is my choice and you are free to make any choices that bring you satisfaction too.

However there are other people apart from myself that will be bitterly disappointed if these courses do not run and I am not prepared to sit back and think "Isn't it a shame I couldn't be bothered to try and get a few more people interested."

The world is full of people that can't be bothered, thankfully I am not one of them.

You are of course 100% entitled to your opinion, and i can understand why you would want to drum up support for something you feel so strongly about.
This sort of passion is to be commended.

The problem is though, in my experience going round belittling how people chose the spend their time a money, then piling on guilt that others may miss the course is not really a good motivation for anyone i know or have ever met.


So although i admire your armoury and ammunition IMO your aim is off by a fair margin.

 

[Wayland]

Wayland, correct me if I'm wrong, but reading your posts I get the impression it has not just to do with this course in Norway, but on courses or even meetings in general.
I think I even detect a hint of "put your money where your mouth is" as far as being active in the field is concerned.

Right??

Not wrong.

 

[Everything Mac]

Bloomin 'eck. People really have got their knickers in a twist over nothing.


Time for everyone to walk away from the computer. Get some mulled wine and be merry.

 

[nodd]

Bloomin 'eck. People really have got their knickers in a twist over nothing.


Time for everyone to walk away from the computer. Get some mulled wine and be merry.

I am off to have a beer and cook the turkey and have a beer

 

[wicca]

What a feeble excuse..take an extra 'T' shirt then..

 

[Shewie]

Wayland, correct me if I'm wrong, but reading your posts I get the impression it has not just to do with this course in Norway, but on courses or even meetings in general.
I think I even detect a hint of "put your money where your mouth is" as far as being active in the field is concerned.

Right??

I get that vibe too but I'm not sure who it's aimed at? Many folk use this forum as a bit of escapism, after all it's just a bit of fun anyway. A lot of folk have no other option than turning up at a regular meets now and then, whereas others put effort into exploring new places. Some don't even make it past the back garden, don't forget bushcraft is what you want it to be, there are no rules or expectations.

 

[mrcairney]

I'm more craft than bush. I did however look very closely at the trip and weighed it up. I like an adventure, have had a few in various places. But they were either solo or with people I knew and trusted. I've never met anyone from here (yet) so getting within the arctic circle and finding out I can't get along with someone would really spoil it for me. I'm not saying that would happen but for me that's the first consideration. Cost would be second. This is true of all kinds of expeditions. I had the opportunity to go an Everest expedition many moons ago but turned it down for these very reasons. I didn't regret it as I went to Nepal with one of my great climbing friends a year or two later.

Have a good christmas all, and Wayland your preparation for this trip has been a joy to follow.

 

[British Red]

Bloomin 'eck. People really have got their knickers in a twist over nothing.


Time for everyone to walk away from the computer. Get some mulled wine and be merry.

Exactly that......

I don't need to be told how to enjoy my hobbies. Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion, the day I need to "prove my worthiness" by attending mass gatherings and courses, is the last day I bother coming here.

Off to dig up the parsnips to go with the roast

Blessed be all

 

[salad]

This is far more interesting than xmas eastenders .

Goodwill to all men and women, happy christmas

 

[Wayland]

It's supposed to be...

 

[Elines]

Things do seem to betting a bit fraught ……

Is the basic issue:

· There are thousands of members on the site (eg as calculated by multiplying 280 pages in the member list with about 30 members on each page there are about 8,400)

· Even after taking out:

o Inactive members
o People who would like to go but can’t afford the cost/time/have other commitments
o People who are not interested because they don’t want to go to Norway/prefer to go places only with people they know etc/have other priorities

it is a bit surprising that there appears to be such difficulty in getting 15 people who want to do the trip.

Stated in this way I think it IS a bit surprising - but if my interpretation is way out then happy to be put right.

(now that Strictly has finished and I have phoned my family I will go back to the tele.)

 

[Imagedude]

if there was somewhere to set up hammocks the course would be oversubscribed

 

[Wayland]

Things do seem to betting a bit fraught ……

Is the basic issue:

· There are thousands of members on the site (eg as calculated by multiplying 280 pages in the member list with about 30 members on each page there are about 8,400)

· Even after taking out:

o Inactive members
o People who would like to go but can’t afford the cost/time/have other commitments
o People who are not interested because they don’t want to go to Norway/prefer to go places only with people they know etc/have other priorities

it is a bit surprising that there appears to be such difficulty in getting 15 people who want to do the trip.

Stated in this way I think it IS a bit surprising - but if my interpretation is way out then happy to be put right.

(now that Strictly has finished and I have phoned my family I will go back to the tele.)

That just about says it but also notice these comments and see if you can read between the lines.

Over a thousand people have read this thread <Snip>

There are almost 23 thousand members on this forum, about five or six hundred of them that I would describe as fairly active and many more that drop in for a view from time to time. That doesn't include the visitors that haven't signed up yet.

If it takes a slightly abrasive post to make sure they are all aware of this opportunity before it slips away forever, then bring me some sandpaper...

I'm also happy that you read this thread and gave it a moments thought, that is the whole intent of it and is aided when people engage with the discussion.

...................................................

 

[johnboy]

Things do seem to betting a bit fraught &#8230;&#8230;

Is the basic issue:

· There are thousands of members on the site (eg as calculated by multiplying 280 pages in the member list with about 30 members on each page there are about 8,400)

· Even after taking out:

o Inactive members
o People who would like to go but can&#8217;t afford the cost/time/have other commitments
o People who are not interested because they don&#8217;t want to go to Norway/prefer to go places only with people they know etc/have other priorities

it is a bit surprising that there appears to be such difficulty in getting 15 people who want to do the trip.

Stated in this way I think it IS a bit surprising - but if my interpretation is way out then happy to be put right.

(now that Strictly has finished and I have phoned my family I will go back to the tele.)

Is it that surprising ??


Given that an Internet forum and all that entails is fundamentally the polar opposite of being out in the outdoors and all that entails.

It takes about 5 minutes to sign up to BCUK as a member so the commitment to belong to a forum is minimal so taking the membership and saying that there should be a level of interest could be a bit of red herring. Which the uptake rate for the courses Bushcraft expeditions offer would seem to indicate.

One thing that did cross my mind is if I was a casual member here would the prospect of going along with some forum ' superstars' actually put me off?? It's inevitable that if the trip runs you'll post up your photos and reports that might be off putting for some.

A regular commercial course offers a lot more anonymity you rock up attend enjoy or not and that's it...


Wayland you've been posting extensively about the trip: kit, pulks, home made smocks, maps, pre trip get togethers, mitts, leather trimmed bergens etc... For someone who drops in occasionally to BCUK they might find all of that a bit daunting wanting to rock up with a Vulcan and a set of goretex it might be off putting for a variety of reasons. Add to that this challenge to effectively 'put up or shut up' the whole thing now has become highly 'political'.

Which I suspect may have the opposite effect than what was intended...

Hey I really hope the trip runs as your excitement for it is palpable it's also a really cool environment to experience.

Cheers

John

 

[cbr6fs]

That just about says it but also notice these comments and see if you can read between the lines...................................................

Absolutely no idea if you have a vested interest in the company that organises this trip or not.
If not, then if it was my company i would REALLY be miffed if i found out someone was intentionally stirring the pot to try and agitate members of a forum into considering one of my companies products.


Personally i have no vested interest either way, it does scream poor business ethics to me though, if someone has to result in trying to make members feel guilty and actively try to antagonise them, for not shelling out thousands of pounds over the Xmas period for something it seems the vast vast majority of forum members are not interested in.

It really does not shine a favourable light on a company IMO and if someone did that with any of my businesses i would want to distance myself as far as possible.

Not only is it extremely poor business tactics, ethically and morally it's also shows extremely poor people, sales and judgement skills.




Cheers
Mark

 

[Wayne]

As far as I am aware Wayland has no relationship with BCUK or Bushcraft Expeditions and to suggest that Wayland is trying to promote this course for financial gain is rather unfair.

Mark you seem to be a particulary passionate antagonist. You have made it clear you do not want to go on this trip or anything similar. I dont quite understand your passion.

I understand Wayland's position he believes passionately that this forum is a mechanism to enable people to experience the joys of practical Bushcraft.

 

[cbr6fs]

As far as I am aware Wayland has no relationship with BCUK or Bushcraft Expeditions and to suggest that Wayland is trying to promote this course for financial gain is rather unfair.

Mark you seem to be a particulary passionate antagonist. You have made it clear you do not want to go on this trip or anything similar. I dont quite understand your passion.

I understand Wayland's position he believes passionately that this forum is a mechanism to enable people to experience the joys of practical Bushcraft.

Hi Wayne,

It was not a suggestion, it was a rhetorical question and i never mentioned anything what-so-ever to insinuate he was/is making any financial gain.

I do find it amusing (in a non condescending way) that you believe i am the one being antagonistic in this discussion.
My passion is pretty much what ever i want it to be, and again without trying to be condescending or unfriendly neither you nor Wayland are in a position to question my passions or commitment.

In regard of this discussion though i can honestly state i really am not even close to bordering on passionate.
As far as my interpretation goes we are simply adults discussing something that has pricked our interest on a public forum, i have absolutely no malice or ill feeling towards anyone on this forum, far from it.
Any advice i have sought has been forthcoming and extremely informative, i've been made to feel very welcome and even though i tend not to post often i regularly enjoy the light hearted atmosphere here.

I did clearly state in one of my previous posts that i to find his passion commendable.

You are of course 100% entitled to your opinion, and i can understand why you would want to drum up support for something you feel so strongly about.
This sort of passion is to be commended.

I just feel that is is wrong to try and browbeat and question peoples commitment simply because they are not willing or wanting to pay near on £2000 (by the time flights and kit has been bought) on a course.

As usual on the t'net intonation and cheeky grins do not come across, so it is often difficult to judge peoples intentions, plus as a noob it's not as though anyone here knows me.
So to clarify i disagree with the method of drumming up business.
I am not sitting here puffing and blowing a blood vessel in outrage, or punching my keyboard in anger in disagreement.
More kind of sitting round a table in a pub enjoying a pint and disagreeing.



Cheers
Mark

 

[rik_uk3]

Chill gentleman please.

Its only a course. How many members here camp in the UK during winter? Not a lot so to start with you have cut your potential punter base down by a big margin as the majority here who actually go camping are good weather campers and nothing wrong in that.

£520 +air fare £300(?) Plus train fares/travel plus kit upgrades plus food and its over a grand. Thats a lot of cash for most people. If you are a family man/woman a thousand pounds will take you and your other half off to two weeks in the sunshine which I suspect would be easier to sell to the family than you buggering off to build igloos for a week which is often how it would be seen to non 'bushy' family members. If your self employed you also loose a week or so's income and if working you loose a big chunk of you paid leave which many want to spend with their family.

The courses Ray Mears sells are often full to bursting but then its 'Ray Mears' you may never meet the chap but that certificate is a talking point. His £650 week long courses are full but he has celebrity status which will appeal to far more folk than the real active membership of BCUK.

If this course fails to sell how about looking at a winter course in Scotland?

Also remember...a lot of people just don't want to camp in freezing weather...nothing wrong in that either.

 

[Wayland]

Snip> Wayland you've been posting extensively about the trip: kit, pulks, home made smocks, maps, pre trip get togethers, mitts, leather trimmed bergens etc... For someone who drops in occasionally to BCUK they might find all of that a bit daunting wanting to rock up with a Vulcan and a set of goretex it might be off putting for a variety of reasons. Add to that this challenge to effectively 'put up or shut up' the whole thing now has become highly 'political'.

Which I suspect may have the opposite effect than what was intended...<Snip

Perhaps I should have been more specific when I said that RowW was "not wrong", I'm not telling anyone to "put up or shut up", anyone who knows me knows that is not my way. It was more his point:

Snip> I get the impression it has not just to do with this course in Norway, but on courses or even meetings in general. <Snip

... that I was agreeing with.

I've seen a number of fantastic opportunities slip by on this forum, cancelled due to lack of interest and I think it is a great shame.

You are right, I have posted extensively about these courses, in fact I've used every opportunity. My intention has been to keep at least one current thread that links back to the courses up in the "What's new" search so they do not get lost and forgotten. I don't know if that has had any effect at all but I hope that it has at least helped the advanced course meet the numbers required.

I'm simply not the kind of person that sits back and watches an opportunity slip away if there is anything I can do to prevent it. That's not said to be "holier than thou", again ask people that know me, it's just not my way.

It is simply the reason why I get to do interesting stuff from time to time, It's not because I have spare time, I don't!.. It's not because I have spare money, again I don't!..

I said above that you should read between the lines, incredibly someone took that to mean I had some vested interest... Apart from a strong desire to see these courses run I can assure you that that is not the case. I was simply illustrating the point of this thread, once again to keep the issue and the information up in the "What's new" search. In that respect it has, with your help, been entirely successful. Thank you.

In terms of getting anyone else to sign up? I suspected that was always going to be a forlorn hope at this late stage, but it is just my nature to give it a try. In my experience, that's what makes things happen...

 

[Trunks]

forum ' superstars'

He's just a bloke with a beard and a penchant for dressing as a Viking!

Wayland you've been posting extensively about the trip: kit, pulks, home made smocks, maps, pre trip get togethers, mitts, leather trimmed bergens etc... For someone who drops in occasionally to BCUK they might find all of that a bit daunting wanting to rock up with a Vulcan and a set of goretex it might be off putting for a variety of reasons.

Daunting, really? Surely you mean inspiring? Gary keep up the good work.

I do understand where Wayland is coming from, there are people who frequent this forum who love the "idea" of doing Bushcraft and collect all the shineys and read the articles, but never get out and practice them. That's fine, that was me until about four years ago, until i finally got booked onto a course & started going to meets

As Shewie said, this hobby is what ever you want it to be, for some people it just takes time to build up the courage, money, kit etc to "get out there." Some people never do and they move onto something else...

Is this really still rambling on? I just see a chap who passionately wants to go on a course he has spent all year planning for, that is now in danger of not being run due to lack of interest or ability to commit time, money etc.

Ok so maybe the point in the OP could have been better made, with a "plea" for people to step forward, rather than implying a lack of commitment. But sometimes frustration gets the better of us...

Does it really need to result in such a spat? Why do people on a forum always take general comments personally and respond with vitriol?

Anyway can't we all leave it now and get back to the Turkey sandwiches, Turkey curry, Turkey casserole, Turkey mouse...