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Doc

Need to contact Admin...
Nov 29, 2003
2,109
10
Perthshire
The psychologists have done a lot of work on what makes people happy. Buying new possessions does give a very brief burst of pleasure, but we quickly become satiated and the feeling fades. So we buy something else new and shiny, and so on.

But spending your hard-earned on experiences rather than things does actually increase long term happiness, and the research shows this. It seems illogical, because the shiny object lasts a long time, whereas the experience is over in days. But the memories are not - they stay with you a long time. Sigurd Olson compared his campfires to glowing beads on a chain, that would kindle back to life when he reminisced about them. I've certainly had days and nights in wild country that will be with me forever.

With outdoor experiences, it is even better, as we are very good at forgetting the sore muscles, gruelling portages and insect bites, but very good at remembering the incandescent sunsets, the monster trout in the net and the feeling of connectedness that come from wild country travel.

'Getting out more' and 'doing something different' are things that people seldom regret afterwards, so I'm largely with Wayland on this one.

There are barriers to doing outdoor trips and some are real (lack of money and family commitments) but some are purely invented and exist only in our head.

Lack of confidence is a big one. I think we all suffer from it to some degree, and caution of course can be very healthy. A group trip like this reduces some risks (like dying of exposure) but brings new ones (will I get on with all these strangers?)

Most of us, most of the time, worry too much, and lack of confidence holds us back. The spring/summer Scandinavian trips like Twodogs and Muddyboots have done are good examples of trips that look a little intimidating on the surface but are in fact very, very easy to organise and undertake. Scandinavia is very safe, the public transport is ace, most people speak some English, and simple common sense will keep you safe in the outdoors.

Meeting a bunch of people you don't know is intimidating but I have always found the company at meets to be excellent, and I am not a particularly extrovert person.

Of course, this trip is not everyone's cup of tea, and I won't be going because I can only squeeze a week of 'me time' from work and family commitments, and I have other plans for this year. But if this thread encourages just one person to seize the day and do just one trip they otherwise would have missed, it's been well worth it.
 

Wayne

Mod
Mod
Dec 7, 2003
3,753
645
51
West Sussex
www.forestknights.co.uk
Doc. I wish I had your skill with the English language.

Very well put.

The psychologists have done a lot of work on what makes people happy. Buying new possessions does give a very brief burst of pleasure, but we quickly become satiated and the feeling fades. So we buy something else new and shiny, and so on.

But spending your hard-earned on experiences rather than things does actually increase long term happiness, and the research shows this. It seems illogical, because the shiny object lasts a long time, whereas the experience is over in days. But the memories are not - they stay with you a long time. Sigurd Olson compared his campfires to glowing beads on a chain, that would kindle back to life when he reminisced about them. I've certainly had days and nights in wild country that will be with me forever.

With outdoor experiences, it is even better, as we are very good at forgetting the sore muscles, gruelling portages and insect bites, but very good at remembering the incandescent sunsets, the monster trout in the net and the feeling of connectedness that come from wild country travel.

'Getting out more' and 'doing something different' are things that people seldom regret afterwards, so I'm largely with Wayland on this one.

There are barriers to doing outdoor trips and some are real (lack of money and family commitments) but some are purely invented and exist only in our head.

Lack of confidence is a big one. I think we all suffer from it to some degree, and caution of course can be very healthy. A group trip like this reduces some risks (like dying of exposure) but brings new ones (will I get on with all these strangers?)

Most of us, most of the time, worry too much, and lack of confidence holds us back. The spring/summer Scandinavian trips like Twodogs and Muddyboots have done are good examples of trips that look a little intimidating on the surface but are in fact very, very easy to organise and undertake. Scandinavia is very safe, the public transport is ace, most people speak some English, and simple common sense will keep you safe in the outdoors.

Meeting a bunch of people you don't know is intimidating but I have always found the company at meets to be excellent, and I am not a particularly extrovert person.

Of course, this trip is not everyone's cup of tea, and I won't be going because I can only squeeze a week of 'me time' from work and family commitments, and I have other plans for this year. But if this thread encourages just one person to seize the day and do just one trip they otherwise would have missed, it's been well worth it.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
I don't really see much to gain from over analysing the reason we do or do not partake in something.

Personalities, experiences, finances and commitments are different for all of us, IMO there really is no need to justify why you do not want to do something as long as it's within the boundaries of the law and doesn't hurt anyone.

For me i enjoy learning at my own pace, i'm a practical kinda guy so i prefer to try things out for myself and work out which way works best for me.
My Brother on the other hand is not happy unless he has registered for some course on something somewhere.

It's no exaggeration to say i'd happy pay out £500 NOT to have to attend many courses :lmao:

With things like bushcraft it gets even more of a muddle because in my experience there really is no right or wrong way to do it.
My mate refuses to use a lighter when we're out, he gets a lot of enjoyment out of creating a fire from components he can find around us.
It's a joy to watch and great fun to try as well, but there are times after a 20 mile hike i really can't be bothered messing about, so the gas stove comes out.

No right or wrong there, we're both enjoying the outdoors.

There are then things that the situation controls.
It would be great to spend a day building snow shelters, that experience won't count for squat if the conditions don't give exactly the right type of snow though.

A Dutch oven might well be great on a wet Scottish mountain side, try that in Greece in summer though and you'll be very lucky to get out alive.


Sure you could go on 1000 courses and learn 500 ways to light a fire, how many could summon upon that short experience 5 years later when it's really needed though?
As an example my guys at work get the exact same manuals, training courses and tools, yet some are able to sort out problem a LOT more effectively than others.
Other are great guys when it comes to paperwork but are not that good hands on.
I could send these "paper work" guys on a course per week and they still wouldn't improve simply because they do not posses that personality trait or way of thinking.

I've lived in Greece for 12 years, yet my Greek absolutely sucks.
It's not for the want of trying either, i've taken on-line lessons, courses, private lessons etc etc, i just can't seem to pick the language up though.

My Mrs studied Italian for 2 months through a on-line course and was able to easily converse when we were over there this year.


So a courses effectiveness even in the best circumstances will not be the same for everyone.


Even for the guys that enjoy courses, have the money and are willing, how many of those guys would prefer to spend time with their family and kids rather than some strange blokes in a forest freezing their butts off?
My guess is not many.


20 years ago these type of courses were a great asset to many folks.
In these days of youtube, forums, DVD's, kindle etc information is a LOT easier to access and obtain.
For the likes of me this is fantastic as i can read about or watch a method then try it for myself and see which way works best.

Be interesting to see if any of the companies that offer these courses were running them say 20 years ago, and if they're more or less popular now?
My guess is although ease of information and self learning has reduced how many want these type of courses, the same media has also made our hobby/lifestyle/job a LOT more popular, so although percentage of people in the hobby taking courses has decreased the total number of people in the hobby has increased.
 

mrcairney

Settler
Jun 4, 2011
839
1
West Pennine Moors
I think tuition has it's advantages. You can only learn so much by watching and reading. Some things have to be felt, some things questioned. The last course I did lasted less than 6hrs and wasn't free. So Pro Rata this Arctic trip is much much cheaper. But it's a skill I can hone on the evenings and weekends. An added bonus is depending on how proficient at it I become, I might make a bit of beer money out of the results. Which I'll be able to save up because I don't drink anymore.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
I think tuition has it's advantages. You can only learn so much by watching and reading. Some things have to be felt, some things questioned. The last course I did lasted less than 6hrs and wasn't free. So Pro Rata this Arctic trip is much much cheaper. But it's a skill I can hone on the evenings and weekends. An added bonus is depending on how proficient at it I become, I might make a bit of beer money out of the results. Which I'll be able to save up because I don't drink anymore.

Absolutely agree,

If tuition did not work then we would have no armed forces, no teachers, no new products and no new inventions.
We all receive tuition varying amounts of tuition pretty much daily.

Plus even if these type of courses offered no increase in knowledge or abilities (not possible) then if we enjoyed it then that doesn't really matter.
 

woodspirits

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 24, 2009
4,216
917
West Midlands UK
www.facebook.com
seems a lot of huffin and puffin about personal choice, if it works for me great, if it doesnt then it doesnt happen. and no ammount of cajoling or somebody elses reasoning will change that, simple as that really :)
 
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Oct 5, 2009
422
0
Sheffield
For what it's worth I've been meaning to get two name's down on the list for some time now. It's taken some doing but I now have that week free and just need to gee-up the other party. I'm not sure if I should say this but for me the course is almost secondary to the journey, for me the primary reason for me is to get out into a fairly spectacular part of the world - a part of the world I might never visit if it weren't for the course. Having never really experienced these kind of conditions the opportunity to do this with an experienced group of people is almost invaluable.
 

R.Lewis

Full Member
Aug 23, 2009
1,098
20
Cambs
It really is a good deal. Believe me I would snap it up if had funds. 3-4 years ago no problem, but now I earn far less and its a struggle just to keep the house! Gutted really. Wife would insist on going too and it really would not be fair to leave her behind...
 

DaveBromley

Full Member
May 17, 2010
2,502
0
40
Manchester, England
I would love to do this but there are a number of factors that i need to overcome before anything of this ilk would even be remotely possible.

*Money - I'm skint at the best of times and with my financial situation the £1000+ i would need would be better spent (for the sake of my health lol) on a family holiday!!

*Kit - My kit is about right now for camping in woodland for about a week, would need to change practically all of it for arctic weather (refer back to factor 1)

*Fitness - having posted my current weight in another thread it should be quite clear that i am in no physical shape for the demands of this course

* Skill - TBH i still think of myself as a complete newby lol, i need to work on practically all of the areas we describe as bushcraft. And as we say you should be able to do these things in the best conditions first and then practice with conditions getting gradually worse.

So whilst i would love to do the course there is a comprehensive list of reasons why AT THIS moment in time i wouldn't feel comfortable in doing it.

That doesn't mean i won't do something similar in the future but it will be at a time when i can get the most out of the course and not feel like a burden due to lack of fitness/skill

just my 2p

Dave
 

Elines

Full Member
Oct 4, 2008
1,590
1
Leicestershire
In case you missed this post that I have already put elsewhere on the site (and for those that have a good imagination and can pretend they are in Norway):


Woodland Ways are running a special offer for their Winter Skills course which is held in a 250 acre private woodland just outside Appleton, Oxfordshire. It is the weekend 17 - 19 February.

http://www.woodland-ways.co.uk/blog/...pecial-offers/

The cost is £195 for every two people - £97.50 each. So it is best to pair up when booking. Does anybody fancy giving it a go - seems a good price for a weekend of training.

Applications need to be in by 5 Jan.

If you fancy it and are available etc pse PM me - if more than one then I will make up a 'twosome' (ooooo errr !!!) with whoever's PM is timed first

 

Elines

Full Member
Oct 4, 2008
1,590
1
Leicestershire
How do you do winter skills without snow?

Or with out the cold to teach you, and punish. You when you get it wrong.

The course runs in February when there could be snow and it's almost certain to be cold enough to 'punish' you. (Can't gurantee any black leather or whips though:))

In any event, at the price, surely it is good value and gives the opportunity to learn new skills in a safe environment that broaden your options for camping out safely.

So ..... anyone interested???
 
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