Lost opportunity?

[Mesquite]

What strikes me is that you are the one without full commitment as while moaning at others you do not book yourself on the course you are advocating others join. Where is your commitment?

Where the heck have you got the idea that Wayland isn't committed to this course? You've taken one post and twisted it so you can launch a personal attack on him.

If you'd have bothered to taken the time to read his comments and threads you'd have seen he's one of the most committed people on the forum in promoting the course.

In any real wilderness experience it is those who have learned by effort and thought who survive comfortably not those who just have the best equipment available. Bush-craft and wood-law are all about living in the wilds with minimum gear, making minimum impact on the environment and learning about both oneself and all aspects of the wonderful wilderness.?

Seems to be you're thinking of survival... not bushcraft. Go read Klephart and see what he considered was minimum gear for living in the wilds...

Now let us take this to the next logical stage, how many on this forum will ever be in the position to need to know arctic survival?

If you look at it that way then in all reality virtually every member on this forum need to know bushcraft at all because they don't live in an environment that requires bushcraft skills. But the reason they do it is because they WANT to do it... they want to learn and experience new things and gain skills that give them pleasure.

That's why there's things on this forum like Jungle courses, Arctic Courses etc.... So why run everyone down for wanting to gain new skills even if they're not going to have a practical use for them in their everyday life?

Edit Bu99er... he got banned whilst I was busy typing

 

[John Fenna]

Edit Bu99er... he got banned whilst I was busy typing

PMSL!
Try using more than 2 fingers per keyboard
Merry Xmas!

 

[Wayland]

Snip> Edit Bu99er... he got banned whilst I was busy typing

He lasted less time than it would have taken to read it properly.

 

[decorum]

Festive numpty

Nah, Christmas Turkey

He might have been keeping an eye out for the man in red ~ but ended up being roasted by the bloke in orange

 

[jackcbr]

Sounds like you are going for a great trip of your own.

Hope it all comes together for you.

Comming back to a more civil point, thanks. It's a funny old world as a canoe expedition has coincided with us being out there. Swmbo is soooooo very nearly talked into it, which was a bit of a shocker for me. We aren't really into your conventional holiday experiences. And the cost is looking like as much as it would be to hire a car and stay along the way. If I can just squeeze in some whale watching, I'm sorted.

That will be one off the bucket list. Hopefully a few more too if we get to see bears and the northern lights. Might not be high enough for that this time.

But the artic trip is there too. Almost got to go to the south pole through work the other year. Was hoping to be sent there this year, but there was a change of plans and the connection has been dropped.

Hope it come together for you mate. I know what it's like when you are so keyed up for something and it doesn't come off. I'm sure there's a lot of people here who will wish they'd made it once they see your write up once you're back.

 

[Elines]

Thanks for leaving the banned person's post on for us to see. Justice is being seen to be done.

 

[vizsla]

Good choice to get rid what sort of a miserable git chooses to use his first post to try and upset someone on christmas eav.
Merry christmas to all and make sure your asleep before midnight or thel be no bushy pressies

 

[Tengu]

Anyhow, You do want to see me at next years moot, dont you?

Thats one thing Im not missing!

 

[Elines]

I need to put this in two posts as too big for one post


Don’t want to raise expectations that I will be going as notr esearched or discussed with Higher Management. But I have had a look atf lights, and this may be helpful to others. The position seems to be (but please confirm before relying on it):



[TABLE="class: MsoTableGrid"]
[TR]
[TD]Route
[/TD]
[TD]Date
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Times
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Costs
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Comments
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]NORWEGIAN
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Gatwick to Bardufoss direct
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]4 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Arrives too late
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Not an option
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]3 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"] Only 2 seats left at 24 December
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Not an option
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]RYANAIR
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Liverpool - Oslo Torp
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]3 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]No flights
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]2 hour bus journey Oslo Torp - Olso
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Manchester – Oslo Rygge
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]3 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]No flights
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]1 hour bus journey Oslo Rygge - Oslo
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Stansted - Oslo Rygge
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]3 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 06.45
Arr 09.55
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£18.39 (+fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 18.50
Arr 22.00
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£18.39 (+fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Oslo Rygge - Stansted
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]10 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 10.20
Arr 11.30
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£12.00 (+ fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 17.25
Arr 18.25
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£12.00 (+ fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Elines]

[TABLE="class: MsoTableGrid"]
[TR]
[TD]Gatwick - Oslo Rygge
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"] 3 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 14.40
Arr 17.50
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£12.00 (+ fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Oslo Rygge - Gatwick
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]10 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 13.00
Arr14.10
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£12.00 (+ fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Stansted – Oslo Torp
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]3 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep10.35
Arr 13.30
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£18.39 (+fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Oslo Torp - Stansted
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]10 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 13.15
Arr 14.50
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£18.39 (+fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Newcastle
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Not yet researched
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Edinburgh
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Not yet researched
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]NORWEGIAN
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Oslo Gardemoen - Bardufoss
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]4 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 9.00
Arr 10.50
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£82.50 (? Fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Bardufoss – Oslo Gardemoen
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]10 March
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]Dep 06.30
Arr 09.00
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]£82.50 (? Fees)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"]1 hour bus journey Oslo – Oslo Gardemoen
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="width: 114, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[cbr6fs]

To be honest i can kinda see where the banned poster is coming from, even if they had a really poor way of putting it.

One of the main attractions of this hobby for me is the solitude, even if i do go with someone that will either be a family member or someone i know very well.
Either way it's people i know and i know share a passion for quiet and solitude.

If i want to get together with a load of mates and have a laugh we'll arrange go-karting, paintball, fishing trip or a pint.
Rather than freeze my nads off with a bunch of strangers.

I also very much enjoy kinda working things out for myself, rather than be taught.
So even though i have both the time and finances available to book courses like this, it's just not my thing.


I really enjoy this forum, it has absolutely fantastic advice and tips together with a really good camaraderie and sense of humour.
That's why i'm here, not to freeze my butt off in an environment i have no intention visiting, never mind living in.

I don't think just because i have no interest in attending this course, it gives you the right to question how i spend my money and why i'm here.

I realise your just trying to drum up interest and get people thinking and enthused, it does seem a very abrasive way of doing that though IMO.



Cheers
Mark

 

[Wayland]

The guy got himself banned because he was abusive and he didn't read my posts properly. When that was pointed out to him he continued to be abusive.

All that in his first three posts. Not a good start.

I think I was the first person to put my deposit down for both of the Arctic courses so my commitment is assured. I have also been gently promoting this course from the outset because I want it to happen. I'll hold my hands up for that.

10 months of that softly softly approach has not worked and there is now less than a month to fill this course or it will not happen and may never happen again.

Over a thousand people have read this thread and very few have had their noses pushed out of place by it. I suspect that even some of the ones that have also recognise the essential truth behind my sentiment.

Most of us talk about bushcraft and dream about actually getting out there and doing it, but when opportunities like this come along life just seems to get in the way.

Well I was told a long time ago by someone that I hold in great respect. "You can either have the things that you want, or the reasons why not."

I don't earn a lot in my work and that suits me fine because I enjoy what I do. I have material commitments just like everyone else and I have to juggle things a lot if I want to do something like this. I understand that financial and social considerations have to be taken into account but I also realise that if we don't push out towards the boundaries then we allow the boundaries to define who we are.

I also understand that the Arctic is not everyone's idea of fun, personally I don't much fancy the jungle, too hot for my blood and too many things trying to get at that blood too. Not wanting to do something is a great reason not to do it.

"I can't afford it because I've got to pay my Sky subscription" or "It's difficult to find the time" I'm not so sure about.

There are almost 23 thousand members on this forum, about five or six hundred of them that I would describe as fairly active and many more that drop in for a view from time to time. That doesn't include the visitors that haven't signed up yet.

If it takes a slightly abrasive post to make sure they are all aware of this opportunity before it slips away forever, then bring me some sandpaper...

 

[gliderrider]

I understand where your coming from wayland, but I'm skint, I cant afford the £520, in fact I cant afford £5.20 until I get a new job. I'd love to do it, but sadly Cant.

Gear would be a problem even if I could.

 

[Graham_S]

I'd love to be able to go, and I can afford to do so this year, what I can't do, is get time off for it.
Plus I have the added problem of working out in the desert.
The temperature change would probably kill me

 

[nodd]

I understand where you are coming from Wayland I use to do a lot of trips when I was climbing and seen to find the time and the money. At the time I was self employed like yourself I would assume. The not being payed for time off part comes that choose and it gives you the freedom to rearrange work.
You said sand paper I think some people felt it might be salt in the wounds of the current climate IMHO. I hope it goes ahead for you and the others that have booked wishing you a Merry Christmas.

 

[BillyBlade]

Nodd/Mark, I agree with both your posts on this.

And Wayland blimey, who said anything about 'paying the sky subscription'? Although, even if it is part of anyones reason, what the hell has that to do with you or anyone else? People can spend the money they make how and as they like. I'm quite astonished that you even try and use that angle as justification for your bile on this. Telling your wife and kids that you're binning the direct debits for a month to go on a trip is not a route to family harmony in any case, and thankfully many on here are not selfish of intent. They put other commitments, and other people, first. It's one of the hallmarks of being an adult, looking after your family.

As for the dig about 'difficult to find the time', that, coupled with the whole 'holier than thou' tone of that last post Wayland, seriously, get over yourself. That new poster may have got himself banned because he put it dreadfully poorly, but his core sentiment was solid I think.

You're starting to sound like a spoilt kid whose moaning because his trip to the seaside isn't going to happen. I hope you get your trip, but we've all had things go wrong in life ( I missed out a military adventure training climbing trip in the Himalayas because some people drove airliners into skyscrapers. All leave cancelled) but you dont attack people over it, you man up and get on with it. Thats life.

 

[Elines]

Well .. I think there is always room for differences of opinion in how to deal with things and that it is particularly difficult to get the nuances and subtleties across when writing as opposed to talking face to face.

But I think that Wayland has acted reasonably and that if the discussion WAS taking place in person - around a fire maybe - then a lot of the heat generated (by the various postings) would soon if not immediately dissipate.

Merry Christmas everybody!

 

[DavidJT]

I can understand your disappointment Wayland if this ends up not going ahead in the end. To a certain extent I agree that some people spend lots of time talking about Bushcraft, and gear and not actually getting out there and doing as much as they should. I'll put my hand up and say I'm guilty of this sometimes too.

There are often threads on here about "if only I'd gone off on XYZ adventure when I was young free and single". So, yes, it's is important to grab opportunities like this when they arise.

With the risk of stating the obvious and repeating earlier posts, I think there are two problems here. In general those who are younger, have more free time and fewer commitments but don't have the money to go. Whilst, again in general, those who are further on in their careers, might have the cash, but have also lots of work, and family commitments which do genuinely make it harder for them to go.

Compounding this is the current economic situation and outlook, which means many are hard up, or just nervous for the future.

For my own point of view, I'd love to go but it wouldn't be my first choice of course, I'm planning to get more into paddling in 2012. I am also planning two independent trips with the family to Norway, one at Easter for cross country and winter activities, and one in the summer for hiking, fishing etc. Although like you I'm self employed, so could arrange the time off, I have to prioritize time and limited funds for these family trips.

I really hope that a enough people put their names down in the last few weeks as it would be a real shame for all concerned if the trip didn't take place.

 

[Wayland]

BillyBlade I'm happy you agree with someone else's post, I have no problem with that.

I'm also happy that you read this thread and gave it a moments thought, that is the whole intent of it and is aided when people engage with the discussion.

I am even amused by your use comments like "Bile" and "Holier than thou" when they would seem to apply far more your own style of posting.

But let me make something very clear... I am going to Norway whether this course runs or not. I am even going if both courses are cancelled because I am determined to live a life a little less ordinary. That is my choice and you are free to make any choices that bring you satisfaction too.

However there are other people apart from myself that will be bitterly disappointed if these courses do not run and I am not prepared to sit back and think "Isn't it a shame I couldn't be bothered to try and get a few more people interested."

The world is full of people that can't be bothered, thankfully I am not one of them.

 

[RonW]

Wayland, correct me if I'm wrong, but reading your posts I get the impression it has not just to do with this course in Norway, but on courses or even meetings in general.
I think I even detect a hint of "put your money where your mouth is" as far as being active in the field is concerned.

Right??