Learnt a bad lesson today

[andybysea]

I really cant see what law you have broken to have your knife (property bought legally owed legally and being transported to a legitimate place of use were you have legal permission to be) what reason you have had your knife taken from you, and just how you are supposed to get from a-to-b with said knife??

 

[Andy BB]

Civil action in the small claims court to recover theft of knife?

 

[Jared]

Complete nonsense. Basically saying anyone with a valid reason cannot transport legal knives. Complete nonsense.

 

[Goatboy]

I have always supported the police and will continue to do so as I honestly believe they do a cracking job 99% of the time
I just hit the 1% I've met bad bushcrafters who done things not to my taste doesn't mean we are all the same so I think behaving as an educated person does my bit to improve life as we know it

Mouse, first off let me say I'm sorry how this is turning out for you. I really do feel you were wronged and ignorant implementation of a bad law has come about. I am on your side in that, and I'm glad your trying to remain positive and open to the cops. Polarized attitudes never really work out and I'm also glad you didn't take offence at my opinions. You took them as meant to be helpful. Don't know where you want to go with this. Do you carry on or do you let it lie? I can't answer that as you know your circumstance. If you can get the warning removed more important than the knife at the moment. Though I know it doesn't seem like it.

Best wishes,
GB.

 

[dwardo]

You can understand mistakes being made by certain police officers but after being given the chance to at-least listen to your case and they still have their backs up??? Poor show.

Chase that complaint, write to your MP and the Chief constable. Then do it again, daily. Have the letters Royal Mail signed delivery each time.

Shocking case and does nothing for their reputation.

 

[British Red]

Contact the IPCC, and indeed, take them to court. If we accept someone taking our property when we have not committed an offense, where does it end?

 

[santaman2000]

Well that was the biggest waste of my time I have ever experienced

Firstly, when I arrived I was taken to a room and then meet by the Sargent on shift ( not the chief inspector ) who informed me that he or anyone else would not be considering reversing or changing the position / stance that had been taken yesterday and I was only invited to the station to complete a complaints form which would be responded to

Secondly , upon asking what the outcome could possibly be by completing the complaints form I was told he did not know as each case was different

Thirdly , I asked why I was not being seen by the chief constable as I had requested and was told that I was given what is deemed adequate audience in response to my complaint

My solicitor then implied that we would be pursuing legal action in reaction to what we believe to be unlawfull confiscation of my property and we were considering using the local media to express my distress
The reply being that I am free to consider which ever avenue I feel nessasary and this would not change the position today

So I've had no choice but to leave today no better off or wiser than before my solicitors opinion is that although he feels I was not to blame in any way ir in the wrong I am fighting a losing battle and a costly battle at that he feels that the complaint will lead to my warning being removed I stand little chance of getting my knife back.....

It sounds like a delaying tactic to get you to tire of persuing the matter. They're betting you'll run out of patience and/or funds and drop the matter. Remember they have plenty of both; they're being paid to be there. You on the other hand, have to take time away from your normal pusuits and pay the solicitor.

 

[Jared]

I agree with Wayland that the media should be the very last resort, and even then it's doubtful whether that would help.

 

[santaman2000]

......So in reflection lads and lasses if you are asked to empty the contents of your bag simply refuse as unless they have good cause to search you they have little power to do so.....

This could be a key issue in future. While it's true that police need a valid reason to search you WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION (the legal terminology may differ there and here; ie: "just cause" or "reasonable suspicion" etc. but the premise is the same) But on the other hand, if you give your permission then ANYBODY can legally search you. A complete stranger might come up (in theory) and ask politely, "Do you mind if I search your bags sir?" and if you reply, "Why no; go right ahead." then nobody has acted illegally regarding said search.

The problem however is when a police officer asks that same question in just as polite a manner, we tend to assume that he or she is politely and professionally stating an order to submit to said search (legally an officer's very presence is considered level 1 on the use of force matrix, a verbal order is level 2) Always ask if it's a request or an order before you submit. If it's a request then politely decline; if it's an order, ask for his justification.

 

[boatman]

Just a thought but you could contact your Police and Crime Commissioner and ask his opinion of the behaviour of his police force as well as contacting the IPCC of course which I assume the complaint will eventually do.

 

[pumbaa]

I think this is quite a worry for all of us . I used to think it was better to have a knife hanging off your belt , well in view if you we're carrying it with good reason . The problem with incidents like this is that it pushes innocent people to conceal their knives within their pack . Which is in itself a worry .
However I do like the idea of a "Right to carry" card , i would even be prepared to buy such an item . In the army we had the shoot to kill cards so we knew exactly what the procedure was . A card laying out our rights as to stop and search procedure and rights to carry in an idiot proof , legally correct format would take pride of place in my wallet for sure .
Pumbaa

 

[Rockmonkey]

Just as a thought, i wonder if having a Pedlars licience would cover you for carying a bushcraft knife, axe etc
Have a look at this https://www.gov.uk/pedlars-certificate
it may be worth asking your solicitor about this, because if you say you are selling spoons etc, and have a licience to prove it, you should be allowed to carry the tools of that trade.
Just a thought!!

RM

 

[Joonsy]

the police themselves have broken the law in this case, they have confiscated a lawfully held and lawfully used item, in short they have committed theft with menaces, not only disgraceful but unlawful, i have no respect in a police force whatsoever that does not follow the law themselves, i disagree with not using the media as exposure is often the only way to get them to use their powers lawfully as they would prefer we all hid behind the curtains. greatest sympathy for mouse.

 

[santaman2000]

the police themselves have broken the law in this case, they have confiscated a lawfully held and lawfully used item, in short they have committed theft with menaces, not only disgraceful but unlawful, i have no respect in a police force whatsoever that does not follow the law themselves, i disagree with not using the media as exposure is often the only way to get them to use their powers lawfully as they would prefer we all hid behind the curtains. greatest sympathy for mouse.

The problem with the media is their sympathies will more likely be for banning knives as evil and the OP will likely be the one portrayed in a bad light.

 

[mountainm]

I think this is quite a worry for all of us . I used to think it was better to have a knife hanging off your belt , well in view if you we're carrying it with good reason . The problem with incidents like this is that it pushes innocent people to conceal their knives within their pack . Which is in itself a worry .
However I do like the idea of a "Right to carry" card , i would even be prepared to buy such an item . In the army we had the shoot to kill cards so we knew exactly what the procedure was . A card laying out our rights as to stop and search procedure and rights to carry in an idiot proof , legally correct format would take pride of place in my wallet for sure .
Pumbaa

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?130694-Looking-for-the-Wallet-Knife-Law-card

 

[Joonsy]

on another thought there is a street market by me where a trader openly displays and sells many large kitchen knives on his stall, of course he not only has to transport them but has them openly on display in the high street where anyone could simply grab one and instantly use it maliciously, mouse had his in his bag, the market trader is allowed to operate without hassle but mouse had his illegally confiscated through prejudice.

 

[Lister]

The very nature in which we (as bushcrafters) transport sharps doesn't offer a great deal of security, if they were transported with lockable sheaths then i think that would offer a defence, "yes i have knives on my person however they are securly stowed and rendered safe"

 

[Ivan...]

You must resist Ivan! You must resist!

Good luck chap, which ever advice you take or route you choose.

Ivan...

 

[Hugo]

Good luck on your quest to get the knife back, I feel for you mate.
I also have to say that I do have a high regard for all the police officers that I have been in contact with over the years which has been quite a lot, I may have just been lucky, I myself will never know.

 

[Dave]

........at no point would I accept any offers of help financially or replacing my knife this was not even a consideration when I made the post........

I can understand that Mouse, it wouldnt be my style to accept financial help either, but the offer still stands.

Im just very irritated for you mate, and Im left scratching my head, about whether to take a knife out now, secure in a rucksack, for a perfectly lawful purpose.

Apparently, it all depends on the whim of the policeman you meet, not the law as it is written......

I wonder what would happen if you were going to attend a Woodlore course for instance?

Shame it wasnt a woodlore blade. You could have written to RM, and told him he better stop selling his knives altogether.