In the woods

[JakeR]

Good going indeed!

Do you think, on a piece of land such as that, it's possible to live entirely from what's there? What would it take? We have water butts, and a rather regal s*** house, made from larch and hazel.

I'm trying to get the hang of splitting hazel coppice with a billhook. It's a frustrating experience. Whenever it gets too much, I end up making baskets, or a cup of tea.

 

[bushwacker bob]

Na. Very unlikely. If you planted a veg garden and got a couple of pigs and expanded your foraging area to the surrounding area you may be able to source a large majority of your needs but It would be very marginal in winter.

 

[British Red]

5 acres is enough to support a family if farmed properly. You would need about 4 for a good short cycle coppice to attain fuel independence. So its enough land - not whilst kept wooded though. However for one person - as Sean says, turn the best acre into a veg patch, support chickens and pigs amongst the trees. You could get close. You would never attain complete self suffciency but could attain pretty good self sustaining level. Some stuff would have to be brought in though (salt, tools etc.).

So - farming yes, by foraging, no

Red

 

[Broch]

Jake,

Obviously I wasn't on the forum when you were but it's comforting to know that the same (virtual) faces are still around and just as helpful and generous as you remember them. Welcome back - the project sounds great.

I have a similar area of wood but mostly sloping. What is very rewarding is to see how well natural regeneration takes over once grazing animals are removed - birch, ash, holly, oak all spring up in no time. Coppicing hazel (and others) not only provides you with good poles but also generates a lower level of cover for wildlife. There are some good courses around for small woodland management but also a few good books.

Not to put a damper on Toddy's generosity (which I know from the brief time I've been on here is boundless) but it is generally preferred that you obtain saplings etc from a local source - i.e. one that is near you. I am sure you could find someone around there that is having to pull up all the little seedlings

You should definitely get some Ash in there too - having just said what I have above if you want ash saplings just let me know - they grow like weeds here.

I would advise that you ask people to bring in their own fuel as well. I know it looks like there's a lot there but a) dead wood is good for all sorts of wildlife and you don't want to remove too much and b) you'll be surprised at how quick you get through it anyway. I take my fuel into my wood most of the time. I suspect that the polite folk on here would have done that anyway.

Cheers,

Broch

 

[Tony]

Good to hear from you again Jake,I tried to mail you a while ago but i think your emails changed. let me know a good one for you an i'll update things.
It sounds like you've been having an adventure, I hope it's been a good one. I'll take some of the blame as long as you've ended up being a good bloke

Mate, if you want to organises a meet up at your place then go ahead, it's yours It's even closer to me than John let this thread stand or start a new one saying you're having a meet and people can speak up, there's a number of locals that would probably come over if you wanted a small group that get on well. I bet it's lovely in November.

Glad you've popped back in Jake

 

[Toddy]

Broch's right, the birch seedlings only came to mind when you said you had none on your land because I'd been weeding out hundreds yesterday.
This last sunny spell has had them popping up in every planter, hanging basket and crack in paving stones.

I'm fond of the silver birches, and the sap from the parents is lovely, but they are well named as a pioneer species

If Broch has some for you, excellent. If not, and you still want some of these, pm and I'll post some when I get back.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Aaron]

Hello there!

What a generous offer. The place is in serious need of birch. If you would post me some I'd be so grateful, as would mother nature! Thanks Toddy. Thank you very much.

JF, there's space for a little one. It's right by you, near Llandovery/Llangattock.

Feels good to be back...

Jake

Hello mate, by the presence of species such as oak, hazel, and hawthorn on your dads land, it sounds like the soil is probably clay - Birch tend to like shallower, more free draining soils - you often see them colonising heathland sites, which occur over areas of gravels or sandy geology. If the site is very wet, it would be better to plant species such as Ash, which are tolerant of wet soils and can fetch a good price as timber trees (there are always adverts asking for any quantity or quality of it in the back of Forestry magazines) -it also coppices and makes brilliant firewood. Before you make any management decisions for the site such as what to plant and what to coppice, I would reccomend getting some proffesional (and free!) management advice from someone like your local Forestry Commission Woodlands Officer, who will also be able to tell you about management grants that may be available, or join something like the Small Woods Assocation (just google these names), who provide advice and run training events for small woodland owners. If you are interested I can also reccomend some good books to read. Jack Becket (user name Jack), who comes on here sometimes, is a good authority on woodland management, Swyn is also a Forester/Estate Manager and would probably be prepared to answer questions. All the best, Aaron

 

[JakeR]

Hey folks, thanks for input.

We have a lovely (if not slightly eccentric) neighbour, who's absolutely convinced that within the next ten years society will collapse, and he's making his preparations. He's started a vegetable patch, and has planted a mini-orchard. Us, on the left side of the track, have a theory that it's to become self-sufficient should the proverbial hit the fan, and we snigger to ourselves as we walk past. He paid us a visit last week, and saw that I had a crossbow, and the conversation drifted uncomfortably onto military issues; defence etc. My father, a South African hippy, concerned enough already about his son's enthusiasm for knives (an not at all impressed with the crossbow), shuffled off awkwardly. I reckon he'd be a good ally... [tongue firmly in cheek]

If it all goes pear shaped, then we can simply join up with him. It'll be another 9 acres, although I'm definitely turned onto making a veggie patch/orchard in the meantime.

Pigs would be great, but a nightmare to keep enclosed. No?

Thanks for the advice Aaron and Broch. Re: the birch saplings, is there a reason to source it locally?

Tony, great to be back! Where do you live? Have you recently moved to Wales, or is my memory fuzzy? I'll PM you my email...

I'll set up a new thread closer to the time, I just wanted to throw it into the ether and see what came back. I like the idea of people bringing their own fuel. Of course, in the evening, we'll be around the boma cooking, so no problem there. We got it made for us, I look forward to showing it off

Jake

 

[John Fenna]

Tony, great to be back! Where do you live?

Jake

He lives about 10m closer to your wood than me......

 

[Aaron]

Thanks for the advice Aaron and Broch. Re: the birch saplings, is there a reason to source it locally?

Its whats referred to as seed of 'local provenance'- even in the same species of tree those from different parts of the country will have evolved slight genetic variations over hundreds, thousands of years that allow them to thrive in the specific climate and geological conditions that occur in that part of the country. Using tree saplings of locally grown provenance gives them a better chance of developing into mature trees, and also continues to support other species of flora and fauna that have in turn adapted to feed on or inhabit them. As is said though, planting birch may not be the best idea on that site as the soil conditions may not be right - it would be best to get expert advice.

 

[JakeR]

I see... Well explained indeed. Thanks.

I'd asked one of the woodlanders that help us out occasionally, but I don't remember a clear-cut answer. I'll keep researching...

 

[Broch]

In my experience Birch will grow anywhere. We are on heavy clay soil and have naturally regenerating Birch, Oak, Ash, Hawthorn, Holly, Small Leaved Maple, Cherry etc. The only thing that doesn't grow well are Rhododendrons (thank heavens).

Unfortunately, we also have a few largish Sycamore and, because I don't have the heart to cut down big trees just 'cos I don't like them, I have to clear the saplings out every year. If allowed to grow sycamore will take over the wood (OK maybe in 100 years but it would still be detrimental to wildlife).

It's a tough job looking after a small wood but somebody's got to do it

Cheers,

Broch

 

[Arth]

My woods is on heavy clay and we have plenty of Birch. Just clear some space for them to grow, the seeds usally come in on the wind. If there is any locally.

 

[calibanzwei]

Second time I've linked this today, but again will most likely be of use:
http://www.woodlands.co.uk/owning-a-wood/

 

[JakeR]

Great, I'll give it a go. We've discussed where we plan to plant a couple. My father was initially hesitant, worrying that it would have an adverse effect on the oak, but he'll be reassured.

Thanks!

 

[Goatboy]

Hi there,
On the provenance front I'd agree with an ancient woodland that getting locally sourced saplings would be beneficial, especially as your on the west coast and trees there "tend" to have an older provenance due to prevailing winds. Like at Loch Maree, they reckon the Scots pine there is of the oldest provenance due to its westerly location and the theory that during the last ice age the ice sheets missed this area and so the vegetation wasn't scoured away.
Also BIRCH is a colonizing species which will naturally die out in many old woodlands as its job is done and the soil structure has changed.
ASH is a great tree, last to get its leaves and first to lose them. Makes great firewood and "cleaves" with an axe and wedge to form boards or fencing material. Also because you cleave rather than cut it is more rot resistant as the grain isn't damaged as much.
WILLOW, as well as what the others have said it's great for improving soil condition as it fixes nitrogen from the atmosphere and you can make a living hedge in damp areas as green stobs them hammered in often " spontaneously " root. Be carefully near foundations and drains as the roots are quite invasive. Can also make a great bio fuel on a three to four year rotation if coppiced.
Cheers
Goatboy.

 

[mjk123]

Slightly off topic, but you did mention it; what are you doing in Valencia? I used to live there a while ago.

 

[JakeR]

Fascinating. I never knew that. Thanks folks. I'll look pretty tight next time we wander through our wood, "did you know that willow..." followed by a smug grin.

MJK, I've got an internship starting in Press Group Holdings. The office is based in the centre, and I'll need a place close by, what's the nicest barrio? Any recommendations? I'm not looking forward to flat hunting. Ugh. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. What were you doing there?

Jake