How to obtain protein from vegetables?

[British Red]

Just that. If its your land, you can hunt them by any legal means. If its not your land and you hunt them with a gun its armed trespass.

Just for your information we don't have legal hunting bag limits on any land creature (although many stalks and shoots impose a limit within their management plan)

 

[Toddy]

It occurs to me that the OP might be better reading up about smallholding and guerilla gardening

Farming's hard work, but in an overpopulated world it's the only way to feed everyone; nothing to say that you can't guerilla garden with plants that look like weeds but those in the know are aware are good food

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Blaidd]

I would have advised getting landowners permission before popping off at any rats I saw, if it wasn't my land. The UK government leaflet mentions approved spring traps are allowed and states shooting by airgun or shotgun. I didn't realise that rifles were not allowed to be used.

via Tapatalk mind control.

 

[santaman2000]

Just that. If its your land, you can hunt them by any legal means. If its not your land and you hunt them with a gun its armed trespass.

Just for your information we don't have legal hunting bag limits on any land creature (although many stalks and shoots impose a limit within their management plan)

Thanks. That's rather what I expected. Not really all doom and gloom for hunters or would be hunters.

 

[santaman2000]

It occurs to me that the OP might be better reading up about smallholding and guerilla gardening

Farming's hard work, but in an overpopulated world it's the only way to feed everyone; nothing to say that you can't guerilla garden with plants that look like weeds but those in the know are aware are good food

cheers,
Toddy

Sounds like the best advice for a long term strategy.

 

[British Red]

I would have advised getting landowners permission before popping off at any rats I saw, if it wasn't my land. The UK government leaflet mentions approved spring traps are allowed and states shooting by airgun or shotgun. I didn't realise that rifles were not allowed to be used.

via Tapatalk mind control.

You can use a rifle if you have an "all legal quarry" ticket...but it does rather beg the question of "why would you?" ...you certainly wouldn't want to be shooting a rifle around buildings or stock.

 

[xylaria]

Seriously try bugs, worms, and roadkill. Insect protein is inavoidable any way. Yes nuts are very good and itnis possible to forage enough for few months but it is not there all year. Seeds are the same.

 

[boatman]

Years ago Tomorrows World showed a method of extracting protein from grass if you really wanted to. The FAO estimated that someone eating mainly wheat in adequate quantities would get enough protein, likewise wild seeds if edible and not affected by ergot.

 

[horsevad]

You are right that it is not ideal, it is only an hypothetical situation where you can only get protein from that plant. And you are right too that I need to learn a lot about how vegans get their proteins.

If I learnt how to obtain protein from vegetables I would not need to hunt and that would be great to avoid problems with the law since here it is only possible to hunt some weekends several months per year.

Having the knowledge to survive eating only vegetables would be great, and knowing how to get the proteins is a basic step, that is why I was asking about this.

Ok.

You don't need protein. You need amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein.

The human metabolism can synthesize most of these, but we need 8 (so called essential) amino acids.

In the US a organization caalled "Agricultural Research Service" under the United States Department of Agriculture has published a online database of nutritional components of various foodstuffs. It is available at:

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/index

The essential amino acids are:
Phenylalanine
Valine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Methionine
Leucine
Isoleucine
Lysine
Histidine

Some of these were earlier considered to be non-essential, so different sources will publish slightly different lists. There are futhermore some other aminoacids which are essential for infants, namely cysteine, tyrosine and arginine.

(If using this information for important decisions, then please doublecheck with updated and official sources - it has been some years since I last read about the subject - they may have added added more amino-acids to the list of essentials)

When you run it all through the database referenced above you will basically be amazed of how little protein you actually need to stay healthy. This modern obsession with protein is - from a scientifically point of view - bordering quackery.

In the 1930-ies a Danish medial doctor, Mikkel Hindhede, actually conducted a series of clinical experiments to prove that it was possible to live a healthy life based on the foodstuffs available to the poorer segment of the population. In one of the experiments he actually had a test subject eating nothing but potatoes and strawberries for a number of weeks.

Edited to add: There is a article from an organization called "The Vegetarian Ressource Group", whose description of the subject is much better than mine. They have furthermore added a table showing the amino-acid components in various foodstuffs. The link is:

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.php



//Kim Horsevad

 

[rg598]

Survive? Yes, very likely true. But in a "long term" situation you would need to think more in terms of "thriving" rather than just "surviving."

I hate this thriving/surviving thing. To me it's just complete nonsense. You can either live on the food you consume, or you can't. If you can live for another 40 years on grains and other plant material, then call it what you will, but the bottom line is that the preoccupation with proteins is misplaced. If you are out in the woods, you will eat what you can find. Odds are you will starve to death. If you don't and can find enough food, you will be fine. Trying to extract proteins from vegetables is the last thing you want to worry about.

If you live in a country where hunting and trapping is not allowed, odds are that a 5 minute walk to the nearest road will supply you with a good amount of roadkill, or another 10 minutes of walking will take you to the nearest trash can where you can pick up a half eaten burger.

On a more serious note, worms and insects will supply all the protein you need, as was mentioned above.

 

[Lord Farquhar]

The issue is not if protine is present, proteins are present in plants, fungi and animals. The real issue is the biological value of the proteins. Animals, fish, milk, eggs, soy all have high biological value proteins ie they have the right mix of amino acids for the human body to absorb and use in cell production. Cabbage has protein but its not a very high biological value and therefore you could not survive on cabbage as a sole source of protein. If you were to eat plants only you need to eat a variety of plants and plat types to get a good mix of the needed amino acids for your body to use.

 

[arnoldpredator]

You're absolutely right in that many plants contain more than enough protein to satisfy normal dietary needs. It must be noted though that some of them (beans in particular) are incomplete proteins and the body cannot process them alone. However there is a simple solution (at least for beans) in that when eaten in conjunction with rice, they will constitute a complete protein that the body can use.
Yes vegans can indeed get sufficient nutrition but it's not quite as simple for them as omnivores; vegans need to pay a bit more attention to the balance of their diet.

Thanks, I didn't know that mixing vegetables was a solution to get the most from them, I will remember this.

To be honest, one of the simplest (easiest/cheapest to obtain and use) forms of vegan protein is peanut butter (assuming you aren't allergic to peanuts)

I can't buy that in the middle of the forest.

Dude, you have much more serious problems if you are trying to live in the wilderness long term than how to get protein from vegetables. I would be a lot more worried about getting the necessary calories than getting protein. Historically, many cultures have survived with minimal protein consumption. The average Roman for example ate grains almost exclusively.
I am not aware of any way to extract concentrated protein from vegetables that you can do in the woods.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I know what you mean and I agree it is difficult to get the necessary amount of nutrients on a daily basis on the forest... but imagine you see tons of alfalfa and other plants with proteins around you, Would you be interested in learning how to obtain their protein (or more in general any nutritious compoment) ? I think you would be as I am.

Hunting isn't easily legal in many places but mostly killing of vermin is allowed (I stand to be corrected.. hidden behind a chair to avoid the larger missiles sent my way). Would that be of any help? (Even if it is technically not answering the OPs question)

via Tapatalk mind control.

Yes, it is of help. I have bought this book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Eat---Bug...qid=1399585522&sr=8-3&keywords=eating+insects

And I will try to cook some bugs.

It occurs to me that the OP might be better reading up about smallholding and guerilla gardening

Farming's hard work, but in an overpopulated world it's the only way to feed everyone; nothing to say that you can't guerilla garden with plants that look like weeds but those in the know are aware are good food

cheers,
Toddy

Well I don't know those terms but it looks like you grow up vegetables on other's land. Well, I think that would be an endless source of problems, any contact with other people would be indeed. People = problems to me, I am sorry because that sounds so bad and I apologize for that, but If I were in the forest trying to survive I would avoid people at all times.

Seriously try bugs, worms, and roadkill. Insect protein is inavoidable any way. Yes nuts are very good and itnis possible to forage enough for few months but it is not there all year. Seeds are the same.

Yes, I am learning about that.

I am sorry because I am not a native English, What does inavoidable mean?

Maybe you mean that I MUST learn how to get and use them, but I want to confirm it.

Years ago Tomorrows World showed a method of extracting protein from grass if you really wanted to. The FAO estimated that someone eating mainly wheat in adequate quantities would get enough protein, likewise wild seeds if edible and not affected by ergot.

Do you have a link for that method or do you remember its name?

I don't know, it looks like it is just what I was looking for.

You don't need protein. You need amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein.

The human metabolism can synthesize most of these, but we need 8 (so called essential) amino acids.

In the US a organization caalled "Agricultural Research Service" under the United States Department of Agriculture has published a online database of nutritional components of various foodstuffs. It is available at:

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/index

The essential amino acids are:
Phenylalanine
Valine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Methionine
Leucine
Isoleucine
Lysine
Histidine

Some of these were earlier considered to be non-essential, so different sources will publish slightly different lists. There are futhermore some other aminoacids which are essential for infants, namely cysteine, tyrosine and arginine.

(If using this information for important decisions, then please doublecheck with updated and official sources - it has been some years since I last read about the subject - they may have added added more amino-acids to the list of essentials)

When you run it all through the database referenced above you will basically be amazed of how little protein you actually need to stay healthy. This modern obsession with protein is - from a scientifically point of view - bordering quackery.

In the 1930-ies a Danish medial doctor, Mikkel Hindhede, actually conducted a series of clinical experiments to prove that it was possible to live a healthy life based on the foodstuffs available to the poorer segment of the population. In one of the experiments he actually had a test subject eating nothing but potatoes and strawberries for a number of weeks.

Edited to add: There is a article from an organization called "The Vegetarian Ressource Group", whose description of the subject is much better than mine. They have furthermore added a table showing the amino-acid components in various foodstuffs. The link is:

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.php



//Kim Horsevad

I didn't know that, thank you so much for the information.

I hate this thriving/surviving thing. To me it's just complete nonsense. You can either live on the food you consume, or you can't. If you can live for another 40 years on grains and other plant material, then call it what you will, but the bottom line is that the preoccupation with proteins is misplaced. If you are out in the woods, you will eat what you can find. Odds are you will starve to death. If you don't and can find enough food, you will be fine. Trying to extract proteins from vegetables is the last thing you want to worry about.

If you live in a country where hunting and trapping is not allowed, odds are that a 5 minute walk to the nearest road will supply you with a good amount of roadkill, or another 10 minutes of walking will take you to the nearest trash can where you can pick up a half eaten burger.

On a more serious note, worms and insects will supply all the protein you need, as was mentioned above.

As I said, imagine that vegetables are extremely abundant and free... learning about them makes sense to me.

Roadkill is something I had not thought about and it would be great, zero effort to get food, thanks.

Well the trash means I would depend on other people and I hate that, I would like to learn getting the food by myself.

The issue is not if protine is present, proteins are present in plants, fungi and animals. The real issue is the biological value of the proteins. Animals, fish, milk, eggs, soy all have high biological value proteins ie they have the right mix of amino acids for the human body to absorb and use in cell production. Cabbage has protein but its not a very high biological value and therefore you could not survive on cabbage as a sole source of protein. If you were to eat plants only you need to eat a variety of plants and plat types to get a good mix of the needed amino acids for your body to use.

Thanks, I will have a look at the biological value of the proteins from now on.

 

[rg598]

If you were to eat plants only you need to eat a variety of plants and plat types to get a good mix of the needed amino acids for your body to use.

True. However that is also true if you just want to stay alive. If one tries to live just on cabbage (or any other similar plant) he will die for many reasons way before lack of protein becomes an issue. If one has a diet that is good and varied enough for the person to stay alive, my guess is that the low level of protein will not be an issue, i.e. there will be enough of it in the food. Throw in a worm or two, and I think the problem is solved.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Lord Farquhar]

True. However that is also true if you just want to stay alive. If one tries to live just on cabbage (or any other similar plant) he will die for many reasons way before lack of protein becomes an issue. If one has a diet that is good and varied enough for the person to stay alive, my guess is that the low level of protein will not be an issue, i.e. there will be enough of it in the food. Throw in a worm or two, and I think the problem is solved.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I think on a diet of cabbage alone you would die from constant exposeure to toxic fumes long before anything else XD

 

[santaman2000]

I hate this thriving/surviving thing. To me it's just complete nonsense. You can either live on the food you consume, or you can't......

Then don't get into a custody battle in Florida. The court will decide the difference in whether the child is "surviving" or "thriving." And DCF can, and will, take custody of any child they deem "failure to thrive" and file criminal charges against the custodial parent.

Legally, it's definitely NOT nonsense.

But closer to our discussion here, you can live on many diets that are deficient. You can even get fat on them, but nonetheless, you will suffer the effects of malnutrition: various diseases, loss of muscle mass, loss of cognitive function, impaired vision, etc.

 

[santaman2000]

....If you live in a country where hunting and trapping is not allowed, odds are that a 5 minute walk to the nearest road will supply you with a good amount of roadkill, or another 10 minutes of walking will take you to the nearest trash can where you can pick up a half eaten burger.

On a more serious note, worms and insects will supply all the protein you need, as was mentioned above.

All quite true, especially the bit about insects and worms. The usual image one gets when you mention Native Americans is either the farming/hunting/fishing peoples of either coast or the buffalo hunting peoples of the Great Plains. But in the desert southwest there were peoples often referred to by settlers as "diggers" or "digger Indians" because they were constantly grubbing for insects and larvae.

 

[rg598]

As I said, imagine that vegetables are extremely abundant and free... learning about them makes sense to me.

Roadkill is something I had not thought about and it would be great, zero effort to get food, thanks.

Well the trash means I would depend on other people and I hate that, I would like to learn getting the food by myself.

Don't get me wrong, I think knowledge is a wonderful thing. Learning about plants is great. I simply do not believe there is a method for extracting protein from plants that can be done in the field, nor do I think there is any particular need for it. Your best bet is to remove most of the water from the plants and then cook them.

All that being said, I get the feeling you are asking about this subject not from an abstractly educational stand point, but rather because you are interested in some larger project. Are you trying to put together a plan for long term living in the wilderness where you can be fully self sufficient?

If so, I think you may be focusing on the wrong things. You are assuming vegetables are abundant, and if you are taking them from people's farms they are, but in the wilderness, they are not as abundant as you may think. Additionally, to get the amount of calories you need from vegetables is extremely hard. The amount of food you would have to consume is huge. Without relying on a large supply of roots and nuts, it would be pretty much impossible to survive on vegetables alone, not because of lack of protein, but because of lack of calories.

If you are truly interested in such a project (my assumption), go out into the woods where you plan to survive, and camp there for a week (pick a time of year when you have a lot of plant growth, just to make it easier). Look for all of the sources of food you can find during that week, and how much of it you find. Then look up the caloric value of all that food you found. See if it would have been enough to keep you alive. Then see if you can gather enough of it and store it somehow so that it will last you through the winter.

Or, I could be wrong, and you don't care about that at all.

 

[mrcharly]

Forget worrying about the protein (but don't try living off rabbit), worry about calories and vitamins. Scurvy isn't funny, neither is B12 deficiency.

 

[xylaria]

Inadvoidable definition: when typing on a phone typing "I" instead of "u" was unavoidable.

Insects; when collecting plants or fungi eating insects cannot be avoided. Insect protein is unavoidable. Once you have got over the idea of eating creepy crawlies (slang for snails insects spiders) you can eat them deliberately if you dont object. I have come across vegans that forage a large quantity of their diet and not deliberately eat insects, but will eat roadkill. As you are in spain you should have access to good chestnut harvests and carob nuts.

 

[arnoldpredator]

Thanks for all your replies.

Don't get me wrong, I think knowledge is a wonderful thing. Learning about plants is great. I simply do not believe there is a method for extracting protein from plants that can be done in the field, nor do I think there is any particular need for it. Your best bet is to remove most of the water from the plants and then cook them.

All that being said, I get the feeling you are asking about this subject not from an abstractly educational stand point, but rather because you are interested in some larger project. Are you trying to put together a plan for long term living in the wilderness where you can be fully self sufficient?

If so, I think you may be focusing on the wrong things. You are assuming vegetables are abundant, and if you are taking them from people's farms they are, but in the wilderness, they are not as abundant as you may think. Additionally, to get the amount of calories you need from vegetables is extremely hard. The amount of food you would have to consume is huge. Without relying on a large supply of roots and nuts, it would be pretty much impossible to survive on vegetables alone, not because of lack of protein, but because of lack of calories.

If you are truly interested in such a project (my assumption), go out into the woods where you plan to survive, and camp there for a week (pick a time of year when you have a lot of plant growth, just to make it easier). Look for all of the sources of food you can find during that week, and how much of it you find. Then look up the caloric value of all that food you found. See if it would have been enough to keep you alive. Then see if you can gather enough of it and store it somehow so that it will last you through the winter.

Or, I could be wrong, and you don't care about that at all.

Well it is not a plan, I would like to have the knowledge and the skills to be self sufficient... just in case everything goes wrong, you never know what is going to happen in your life.

Thanks for your last paragraph.