how many of us are first aid trained?

[Ogri the trog]

Like many folks here,
My initial training was plugging holes through the forces, which took quite a while to transfer to the normal first aid that industry likes to see. I've been qualified for the last 8 years, with regular refreshers. The only bit I don't hold now, that I used to, is use of a defibrillator.

Ogri the trog

 

[Laurence Dell]

I did my First Aid at Work requalification with St John's last week and they have simplified it now, eliminating the multiple choice test and circulation is not checked by taking pulse any more for example.

St John's for example cover the issue of using the training outside work by providing a membership and insurance scheme that you subcribe to and it covers you to use First Aid outside work for the three years that the qualification lasts.
I wouldn't mind taking it further with training more specific to my industry, or doing evening classes that go more in depth than the FAW.

Still I haven't had to put any of it into practice yet unless you count plasters and eyewash and I work in a high risk industry

 

[raiderrescuer]

Been Military trained about a 50 times in twenty years, Been Red Cross (1st Aid & CPR) certified 4 times and then Medic First Aid & CPR trained x2 then Medic First Aid, CPR & AED (Automated External Defibrillation) Facilitator (Instructor) qualified but all of it is currently it's expired...I think I can still remember how to perform First Aid without the little qual card.

Here's a link to the Medic First Aid outfit:
http://www.medicfirstaid.us/

They focus on basic skill sets...stuff you won't forget when you go into auto-pilot mode during an emergency.

 

[Minotaur]

Also looked at the using herbal remedies with first aid course but work got in the way of attending that one. Have to check when that course runs again

Steve

Any chance of some more information on this one.

My certs are out of date at the moment, but I did spend 10 years in the St. Johns Ambulance as well as working as a qualified first aider for some years after that, so I'm fairly confident if it comes down to it Had to use it in anger a couple of times, including once when I had to do full CPR for about 15 minutes as there was no one else who had any idea and the Paramedics got stuck in traffic. Probably one of the most exhausting things I've ever had to do.

To sort of go over what over people have said, they change something every time. Almost always CPR. A lot of the changes come down to which study they use. They are after a set of para skills based on a hospitial based study.

Anyone removing or trying to remove my helmet after a crash had better be a minimum of paramedic or they can expect a whole heap of trouble from me!

I have a black full face helmet (like the old bill have so that the whole front lifts up out of the way if you need to get in for mouth to mouth) there is NO reason why anyone should be removing helmets other than this. I have a large yellow sign on both the front and rear of the lid ordering (not asking - ordering) people NOT to take it off....period!

I know some people have been trained in the correct way to do this, I just don't care....as I say unless you're a paramedic, Nurse or Doctor LEAVE MY LID ON!
You may get it off correctly and manage not to break my neck but if it's all that's holding my brain in and I'm at the side of the road you'd better be good with stopping the goo oozing out!!!! :yikes:

A FAW I know once had to restrain a Doctor from removing a helmet, he said the best bit was the abuse the doc got from the Para medic when he arrived. Do not take helmets off!

Agreed.
I've noticed that the FAW course is gradually being eroded from what you should do to what you should not do. This was very noticeable on my last refresher where I felt that I could have got through the practical assessment just by walking into the room and telling the victim I did not feel confident to treat them and was going to call an ambulance :roll:

The point of a FAW course is that an Ambulance should not be more than 15 minutes away(who ever decided that lives in the real world?), so they keep trying to make it more about keeping people alive for that 15 minutes, than giving you skills to clear people yourself.

I'm on my refresher course next week and I'm dreading it :shock: the training has been reduced from four days down to two. It is no longer being held by St. Johns, it is being held by some tin-pot company that quoted the lowest charges to the company. If I do not feel confident that their training is up to scratch, I will be handing back my first aider badge and telling British airways to poke it !! I will do the course externally with St. Johns for my own reasons such as the SAR team but I will not be exercising my duty at work.

It is a refresher, the point is to make sure you DR ABC and CPR are what they should be. Then tell you about the changes, a lot of the tin pot companys are run by pre-hospital care personnel, so you may find yourself taught by a paramedic.

You make a good point. I've done both the pre-hospital care courses and major incident courses run by these guys http://www.basics-scotland.org.uk/ and they made the point that ATLS/ALS/ACLS courses assume you have a team of at least six (I think....is that right Martyn?) and er, a hospital. Pre-hospital care takes place in what they charmingly call 'an uncontrolled environment' which I guess covers everything from blizzards to homicidal axe-wielding maniacs on the loose.

You told porkies, Doc. You do have a first aid qual, that is the point of Basics, to get all pre-hospital staff on the same page.

Like many folks here,
My initial training was plugging holes through the forces, which took quite a while to transfer to the normal first aid that industry likes to see. I've been qualified for the last 8 years, with regular refreshers. The only bit I don't hold now, that I used to, is use of a defibrillator.
Ogri the trog

The St.John's and the red cross do run courses for defibrillator use, but it depends what type you want to use. The courses tend to be for autos, unless you do the more advanced things which start to cover manuals.

I did my First Aid at Work requalification with St John's last week and they have simplified it now, eliminating the multiple choice test and circulation is not checked by taking pulse any more for example.

That is a bit worrying, the point of the test is incase Healty and Safety have to check up on you, that proves you knew the stuff.

I have been FAW for 12plus years and I am doing my EMT in November, which is hopefully going to be my first step on the long run to becoming a Paramedic. Also got my first ILS course and my refresher before then.

 

[Mikey P]

I've no first aid qualifications.

Have got degrees in medicine and surgery, two diplomas and membership of a Royal College though

Sorry - I'm afraid you haven't got the job - you're over-qualified.

Only messin'!

Anyone in the military will have basic first aid training (life saving) and I've done a few extra's too. Some of it was a bit too advanced for me, though, and I don't reckon I'd attempt it for risk of killing off the patient rather rapidly! It's amazing what you remember...

Are they teaching basic first aid in schools, yet? Would this be a good idea?

 

[KB1HZM]

Combat Lifesaver trained while in the army ...but thats was 7 years ago
American Heart Assco. CPR, First Aid, AED with enviromental Instructor with the new standards of 30 compressions to 2 breaths...certified and up to date

 

[Tribaljamin]

Ex-fire fighter and ex-lifeguard - not trained for few years though.

 

[malcolmc]

Got my first aid badge in the cubs and kept it up ever since. Currently qualified First Aid at Work but looking to do a wilderness FA course early next year.

Question: If 2 bushcrafters are walking in the woods how many should know about first aid? I would suggest the anwser is 2. Always been a bit concerned that the law requires only one first aider in some workplaces - leave? first aider requiring first aid?

 

[copper_head]

Got my first aid certificate when doing the Duke of Edinburgh's award, hopelessly out of date methinks. But still the basics are what's important right? i found you can pick up alot of info from survival writers as well, especially about dehydration/hypothermia.

 

[rik_uk3]

basic, workplace, advanced, emergency and defib, some need updating, and I go on an ECG refresher course in December. It all comes down to maintaining the airway, stopping blood flow, safely immobilising the patient and shouting for help (all at the same time very often)

Any first aid training is good.

PS, make sure you are in a safe position FIRST before helping out, and maintain your safety, if your hurt you don't get to help the patient

 

[malcolmc]

One of the reasons removing helmets is not taught on a FAW course is the fact that the course is called "First Aid at Work." Very few peoples work includes motorbike helmets so it isn't included in the criteria of that course.

As to the actual removal, we were taught only to remove it if the person has stopped breathing. In that situation the person is technically dead anyway, so you can't make them any worse :shock: But you had better be sure that they have stopped breathing first.

Bit uneasy about that one; my training is they're alive until a doctor says otherwise. That's why you don't stop CPR until professional aid arrives.

 

[Longstrider]

I did the FAW course with St Johns but it's now expired. I also did quite a bit of FA training in accompanyment to my training as a Liferguard, including EAR and ECM of course.
So far my training, a little common sense, and my experience through the University of Life has managed to let me deal with everything that life has thown my way to what I believe to be a pretty good standard. These events have included 3 occasions of full EAR/ECM that resulted in the casualty continuing to enjoy life, one instance of childbirth in a swimming pool changing room (The parents actually named the little fella after me! ), a traumatic amputation of the lower arm (Don't mess with hay-balers!), half a dozen broken bones and a couple of stabbings as well as various minor events (and a couple of more serious injuries) at RTA's.

I recognise that proper training is essential for dealing with a good number of cases, and that employers can often demand that certificates are kept up to date for the purpose of insurance etc, but doing some training, even if that particular qualification is not re-taken to keep it valid, having a basic, sound knowledge of what to do in an emergency situation and having some common sense goes a hell of long way to making you an effective source of help when the manure hits the fan. Knowing your own limits is also an essential piece of the equation as with so many things, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". Just stick to what you know, act calmly and as effeciently as you can and you will often be the one that makes all the difference to the outcome of a poor situation.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I am trained in firstaid, I am also an advanced rescue diver. (scuba diving)

 

[stovie]

You'd think by now CPR would have settled down - what's the current ratio ( just in case I need it before the next course )?

New BLS guidlines published about 1/12 ago by Resus Council...and what a surprise its all changed again

Adult
Breath check/signs of life done simultanously (thats a pulse check to some of us...is he pink and warm to other )
If no signs of life (remember the parrot)...get help (phone, carrier pigeon etc)
Now here's the change start compressions first X 30 then breaths X 2.
Breaths 1 sec inspiritory time NOT 2 secs.

Though next year it will probably all change again...

 

[nickg]

Just finished the Forest Knights wilderness First Aid Course - Excellant weekend and certified at the end as competant person - if you dont do any other course I absolutely recommend this one

Just a few small points

Motorcycle helmets - The general rule is dont remove them until you are sure that there is no head or NECK damage. The bl***y things are as likely to damage necks when being removed as they are likely to cause the damage initially. BUT the chin strap after a shunt is likely to be causing an airway blockage so you may need to loosen or remove the strap even if you dont take the helmet off. Also remember that the helmet is heavy and if left will naturally want to roll the head and neck to one side so always look to support and immobilise it. They are actually warm and make good pillows so they are worth keeping on while waiting for the medics even if there is no injury. Of course if CPR is needed you will have to take it off - good idea if youre not a regular biker is just try to remove a helmet from someone as a practice - its really not straightforward and woth the time spent learning how to keep the head steady whilst doing it

 

[Tribaljamin]

Just finished the Forest Knights wilderness First Aid Course - Excellant weekend and certified at the end as competant person - if you dont do any other course I absolutely recommend this one

Just a few small points

Motorcycle helmets - The general rule is dont remove them until you are sure that there is no head or NECK damage. The bl***y things are as likely to damage necks when being removed as they are likely to cause the damage initially. BUT the chin strap after a shunt is likely to be causing an airway blockage so you may need to loosen or remove the strap even if you dont take the helmet off. Also remember that the helmet is heavy and if left will naturally want to roll the head and neck to one side so always look to support and immobilise it. They are actually warm and make good pillows so they are worth keeping on while waiting for the medics even if there is no injury. Of course if CPR is needed you will have to take it off - good idea if youre not a regular biker is just try to remove a helmet from someone as a practice - its really not straightforward and woth the time spent learning how to keep the head steady whilst doing it

One of the major selling points for the 'flip-front' bike helmets is that you can perform CPR on a biker.
Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

 

[falling rain]

I'm first aid trained.............. and so are my whippets

 

[useless]

Hi there

I have also just done the Forest Knights course and would echo the above.

with reference to...

Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

I think you are probably right. However, I had to put my FAW training into practice on a hard shoulder one morning. The situation developed and I had to give some poor bugger CPR after dragging him from his car. Turned out he had a heart attack whilst driving.

He died three days later. However, The CPR that I and the emergency services (most notably Fire & Rescue) performed on the roadside gave him a chance to have his family visit him befor he "bailed out". He did all the hard work (the tenacious bugger!), but CPR helped him and his family a bit.

It is surpriseing how few people are first aid trained, and surprising the difference some training can make to peoples lives.

 

[stonyman]

I'm British Red Cross Ambulance Aid Level2 with a De-Fib certificate, oxygen therapy, am able to administer Entonox and insert a oral pharyngeal airway, and carry out CPR to paramedic standard plus all the usual first aid bits and pieces, only trouble is it runs out soon and I have left the Red Cross.

 

[Tribaljamin]

Hi there

I have also just done the Forest Knights course and would echo the above.

with reference to...

Just as a side point, CPR rarely works - its a very hit-andmiss 'science'.

I think you are probably right. However, I had to put my FAW training into practice on a hard shoulder one morning. The situation developed and I had to give some poor bugger CPR after dragging him from his car. Turned out he had a heart attack whilst driving.

He died three days later. However, The CPR that I and the emergency services (most notably Fire & Rescue) performed on the roadside gave him a chance to have his family visit him befor he "bailed out". He did all the hard work (the tenacious bugger!), but CPR helped him and his family a bit.

It is surpriseing how few people are first aid trained, and surprising the difference some training can make to peoples lives.

Ive done CPR on 2 persons (at different times) and seen CPR performed on others, none of them made it unfortunatley.

I think CPR training (just CPR training, not the majority of the other skills taught during first aid course and the like) is given as a confidence building exercise rather than a usable, effective tool.

If at the end of the CPR training, the student is more confident and feels as if he/she can grapple an emergency situation, then its worked.

It reminds me of a 'tool' a friend of mind used to employ. He was a parachute instructor. He used to teach his students the special move used when your main AND reserve shute failed. Students were taught to grab the grass tightly JUST before they impacted at terminal velocity with the hard stuff. Apparently it gave some of the students a bit more security in knowing there was something else that could save them if everything else failed.

In my experience the important points to remember during any first aid / emergency situation are to:
Remain calm,
Remember your training,
Do a bl**dy quick risk assessment and
Give other people (passers-by, pedestrians etc) something to do.

The last point has an amazing affect on most situations. Get people involved. Get them to stop traffic, fetch towels, pick berrys, swing from ropes, anything to keep them enterained.
It clears the space youre working in, brings a sense of calm to a situation and some people can turn out to be reasonably helpful.