how many of us are first aid trained?

[arctic hobo]

Good one Phil :biggthump

As regards injections for Russia, I was in Pevek. As an idea of where Pevek is: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.ad...ress&cat=&address=&city=pevek&state=&zipcode=

 

[Martyn]

I've no first aid qualifications.

Have got degrees in medicine and surgery, two diplomas and membership of a Royal College though

Ditto, no first aid certificates at all. But I am a Registered Nurse, I hold the relevant degree, I work in a trauma intensive care unit and am Advanced Life Support certified - which I actually get to practice on an alarmingly regular basis.

 

[SARHound]

Ditto, no first aid certificates at all. But I am a Registered Nurse, I hold the relevant degree, I work in a trauma intensive care unit and am Advanced Life Support certified - which I actually get to practice on an alarmingly regular basis.

Guys FYI,

There is a world of difference between tauma in an ER and long term managment of injuries with limited equipment in the outdoors.

Our courses we run have paramedics, nurses and Dr's on it who had no idea there is another world of prehostpital care they were not trained on. It is a humbling experience and a real eye opener for them.

Decisions have to made in remote locations that never are made in urban areas. IE:

What O2 rate and when to administer when a patient is 18 hrs from help and only 1 D cylinder is available?

What meds commonly used can help a patient until rescue?

How to reduce a femur fracture without severing an artery and with no equipment?

HOw to fluid rehydrate without any IV supplies?

How to manage alergic reactions 2 days form help?

The list is endless and is not taught in mainstream medical education.

I recommend a high level of wilderness first aid for those in the medical field, it is worth the expense if you plan on spending extended periods far form help.

SARHound

 

[EdS]

Start my Mountain Rescue Council FA course next week. Should be intresting but very hard work. Plus the practical exam is outside just for added "intrest".

 

[Doc]

You make a good point. I've done both the pre-hospital care courses and major incident courses run by these guys http://www.basics-scotland.org.uk/ and they made the point that ATLS/ALS/ACLS courses assume you have a team of at least six (I think....is that right Martyn?) and er, a hospital. Pre-hospital care takes place in what they charmingly call 'an uncontrolled environment' which I guess covers everything from blizzards to homicidal axe-wielding maniacs on the loose.

Here in the UK it would be unusual (not impossible though) to be more than two days from help. Wilderness medicine is very interesting. I remember seeing a job as doctor for the British Antarctic survey and being a bit tempted.

 

[SARHound]

Just to be clear Doc, it is great to have highly trained Docs and paramedics in the bush as well because their scope of practice is so much higher than a first responder. .


Also when I say 2 days from help that could be only 5km from a major road but it takes that long to evac them out for whatever reason, not uncommon.

Hound

 

[Andy]

I remember seeing a job as doctor for the British Antarctic survey and being a bit tempted.

I seem to remember a guy who my dad worked with left for 6months to do one of these jobs and enjoyed it, but nobody seemed to like working in that hosipital.

As an update on my first aid skills I visited on devision of st johns on tuesday and hope to see the other group tomorrow.

Due to changes in whats coverd in first aid courses since I was last in St Johns it seems I'll want to do some more courses in whichever new devision I join. We have to find out if the stuff I've done in the past will count towards my time trained before I can do medical gasses. Defib training and specialist in infant first aid can be done straight after the FAW and ECS (essential care skills)

Sadly St Johns have increased prtective clothing which members can get from a kevlar helmet (like padamedics wear) to overt and coverrt stab/bullet proof vests

 

[theorsmeister]

Trained by army cadet force in first aid


good knowledge and no cpr and ar and such like
as well as various remedies and how to deal with injuries

 

[stotRE]

My tupence is that first aid is important and it saves lives.
I have had several (i will not say privelidged) occasions to use my first aid training under fire and in peace time and i drew on my training and managed to save the life of four people who would have died from their injuries.
I have treated one amputation victim, one gunshot wound victim, a bomb blast victim and a hypophermia victim.

I don't like to blow my own trumpet but i am glad that i had the opportunity to save four lives but i have also seen casualties that were beyond help and i will carry their face's to my grave.

Get first aid training and consider it more important than any bushcraft training.

 

[FeralSheryl]

It's on my To Do list. Seriously.

 

[zackerty]

St John Advanced First Aid...I have to do a full day refresher every six months, as part of my job in the electrical power industry.

 

[Martyn]

You make a good point. I've done both the pre-hospital care courses and major incident courses run by these guys http://www.basics-scotland.org.uk/ and they made the point that ATLS/ALS/ACLS courses assume you have a team of at least six (I think....is that right Martyn?) and er, a hospital.

Yeah, though in practice it's a team of however many happen to be around when it kicks off.

Though being in hospital presents it's own specific set of problems. If a patient is in ITU, they are likely to already be intubated and connected to a sophisticated ventilator, with blood gasses done every 4 hours or so. They will have full cardiac monitoring in place, with a transduced arterial line for BP moniotoring and ABG's. They will already have a central line, probably with ionotropic infusions already running. They may have a swan ganz in place, or an oeasophageal dopler with regular cardiac output studdies. They will have constant serum potassium levels monitored and corrected, same for magnesium.

If someone arrests in such circumstances, it's unlikely to be a PEA arrest with a glaringly obvious correctable cause as homeostasis is so closely monitored and maintained.

I'd be lost in the outdoors without all my equipment to tell me whats going on - probably just as out of my depth as a paramedic would be in ITU. That said, biology is biology wherever you are.

I voted for "no propper training". It seems I'm in the minority at that - which can only be a good thing.

 

[leon-1]

Martyn, I have training from the forces, but it is now well out of date and to be honest unless you are likely to suffer traumatic amputation or GSW a lot of it would be useless.

I did find a lot of the guys had common sense and a lot of first aid seems to stem from that.

I was taught a lot and although the rules appear to change every five minutes a lot is the same, however I would not deem to work on someone without their express permission even if it would save thier life. I've not the insurance to cover me for a start, but at least you work in a job that can make a difference.

 

[Martyn]

Martyn, I have training from the forces, but it is now well out of date and to be honest unless you are likely to suffer traumatic amputation or GSW a lot of it would be useless.

I did find a lot of the guys had common sense and a lot of first aid seems to stem from that.

I was taught a lot and although the rules appear to change every five minutes a lot is the same, however I would not deem to work on someone without their express permission even if it would save thier life. I've not the insurance to cover me for a start, but at least you work in a job that can make a difference.

Mate, any level of first aid training is better than none, you'd be amazed how many arrests we get with "no bystander CPR" and they dont do very well at all - Even if we get past the immediate life threatening issues, the hypoxic damage almost always leaves the poor blighter with some (or many) deficits. I really should do some first aid training myself. Even if your first aid cert in not current, you will have the initiative to get stuck in and that may make all the difference to someone one day.

Maybe it's a bit of complaisance (or arrogance) on my part. Our ICU is a major center for trauma care. From Manchester to Birmingham, we get pretty much all the severe trauma's. The center of excellence thing I think comes from having such a high level of exposure to major traumas on such a regular basis. We also have neurosurgeons, so all the head injuries come to us as well. The hellicopters fly the bad ones straight past the district generals and bring em straight to our door. The downside is that with dealing with such severely injured people, we have a very high mortality rate. Sometimes, when so many of your patients die, it's difficult to feel you are making a difference. Not true of course, we make a big difference, just takes a bit of remembering sometimes.

On the upside, I do feel very well skilled. That's one of the positives for having high and regular levels of exposure to severely injured people. Real life exposure simply cant be substitued with theory.

That's no excuse for not doing a first aid course though. It's a different discipline with a different set of skills - one I (and everybody else) really should take the time out for.

 

[leon-1]

Mate, any level of first aid training is better than none, you'd be amazed how many arrests we get with "no bystander CPR" and they dont do very well at all.

That was one of the first things that I was taught was the first level of care is probably the most important, speed, quality and not sacrificing one for the other.

That's no excuse for not doing a first aid course though. It's a different discipline with a different set of skills - one I (and everybody else) really should take the time out for.

Without a doubt you are correct in this, the problem then comes in people having the courage to use what they know, I have knowledge (not enough practice) in the subject, but have not had the time untill made redundant to actually start looking at courses and reviewing notes.

Things change all the time and you never really seem to know where you are, but push comes to shove I will use what I know to an extent (I am not allowed to use tournique outside the armed forces for sure) anything else apart from escharotomy which I hope many here do not know about goes.

I think first aid a massively important thing and think that current and regular training for people would be more than a good idea for all

 

[Buckshot]

I'm currently a first aider at work, my cert runs out at the end of the year so I've got to go on a refresher before then.
I think the bushcraft community has a high percentage of FA's - it's a similar mentality - being responsible and prepared

Cheers

Mark

 

[Rhodri]

Currently have a valid certificate for bog-standard First Aid at Work. A requirement of my job. Useful in its own way but I'd like to take it further.

Incidentally, my employer (and the St John's people who do my training) has stressed that as its FAW I should probably not use it outside of work - as I would not be protected against any legal action should anything go wrong. Appalling attitude IMO, and a very depressing sign of the times.

Perhaps I should wait to use my other (tenuously) relevant qualification - a PhD in Osteoarchaeology... You have to be very dead before that kicks in. At least I wouldn't be sued though...

Cheers,
Rod

 

[moduser]

I've had a first aid at work certificate for so many years.

Never taken it further other than I did a mountain leadership course 10 years ago which had a lot extra bits in it, foucus on exposure (hypothermia, frostbite) using the various stretcher types for evacuation and also helicopter resue (which was exciting).

D

 

[FeralSheryl]

The Red Cross do a number of First Aid Courses for Outdoor Pursuits specifically, which could be a good one to take.

 

[Spacemonkey]

Usual First Aid courses, and a North Sea Survival Course (and oddly enough OPITO registered, but never used it...) which covers such lovelies as fire fighting too. The best bit of this course though is the escape from an upside down, underwater helicopter. Now that was fun! And the enclosed lifeboat evac where it drops 30 odd feet into the drink, before surfacing, going for a little cruise, then evac into a RIB.

I have a few surgical skills that i practice daily, but none of my 'patients' have ever recovered