Can't we debate it a little bit more - then Jason can post in ALL CAPS and climb back into his sleeping bag butt naked
Eek!
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Can't we debate it a little bit more - then Jason can post in ALL CAPS and climb back into his sleeping bag butt naked
then Jason can post in ALL CAPS and climb back into his sleeping bag butt naked
NOW THAT MADE ME LAUGH !!!!!
Jason
There's no such thing as bear territory in a lot of places here. People and bears coexist in the same environment. There's still people that live year round in the bush, just as they have for generations. Native people aren't the only ones, though they would be in the majority. Sometimes we get eaten and sometimes the bear gets eaten. It's life.
I suspect that more bears get shot by humans than humans are eaten by bears to some order of magnitude?
Aye, but I think we should change
to
I think you've inversed your quotes there............
Aye, but I think we should change
to
So you think we should prefer that the bear eats us more often?
I can't speak for mountainm of course,but I don't think that's what he is implying......................I can understand his position as I can all the other points of view expressed here..........................but I think if you consider human life as superior to all other forms of life & that human beings have all the rights on this planet & that their needs & wants over ride those of all other species, then it may be difficult to see where mountainm is comming from.
I hike a lot in bear country armed only with bear spray. If the bear had stalked and attacked me the title of the thread may still be "Eek" but it would be about a bear killing a hiker, not about hunters killing a bear. If I had a firearm I would use it to defend myself from a bear attack, cougar attack, or any attack from any other species. Whilst the bear's death is sad (and all deaths are sad for someone, those domesticated farm animals living in unnatural surroundings particularly so) I believe it is a fundamental and natural right of any individual creature to defend itself from attack - mortal or otherwise - from members of its own or any other species. Whilst the hunters may not have "needed" to hunt they were still putting meat on the table and I would far rather eat hunted Elk than factory-farmed Chicken. Part of the problem is that, as homo sapiens is so populous, through agriculture, forestry, industry, road building and the advent of cities and townships he has destroyed and reduced and bisected and changed habitats for many species - including that of many of his own aboriginal peoples. This has caused these species, in some cases, to migrate to less suitable areas, or to bunch up in others. Consequently, due to our environmental (mis)management, areas we "allow" species to live in can become overcrowded and therefore unsustainable due to their excessive population. In order to maintain healthy populations, and one we would ideally like see when we're out in the bush, some culling is occasionally necessary to maintain a viable and sustainable population, and consequently a healthy habitat or ecosystem. The best sign of a healthy ecosystem is a decent population of the apex predator in that system. Many of us like to go into the wilderness and so will, on occasion, meet an apex predator. Most meetings will be without incident.
Man has had a phenomenal affect on the planet's ecosystem. We understand its interdependencies so much better now. We've changed it and now realise that to continue to enjoy it, and for it to continue support us, some management is needed. Hunting is part of that management. We sometimes forget we are part of the planetary ecosystem; early man was a prey species as well as a scavenger, and evolved into a hunter. Man is still prey to a better equipped hungry animal though. That is as it should be.
I, for one, don't like the sport of angling: catch and eat - good; catch and release - not good. Tens of millions of anglers will disagree with me. That's how it is. I'm sure I'll get over it.
A final word: I have heard a couple of times from North American hunters that some bears have learned that the sound of rifle shot means "grub up". Why worry about catching your own elk when some nice humans have just shot one for you!
Man has had a phenomenal affect on the planet's ecosystem. We understand its interdependencies so much better now. We've changed it and now realise that to continue to enjoy it, and for it to continue support us, some management is needed. Hunting is part of that management. We sometimes forget we are part of the planetary ecosystem; early man was a prey species as well as a scavenger, and evolved into a hunter. Man is still prey to a better equipped hungry animal though. That is as it should be.
I, for one, don't like the sport of angling: catch and eat - good; catch and release - not good. Tens of millions of anglers will disagree with me. That's how it is. I'm sure I'll get over it.
A final word: I have heard a couple of times from North American hunters that some bears have learned that the sound of rifle shot means "grub up". Why worry about catching your own elk when some nice humans have just shot one for you!
Bearbait's post is what I call a balanced view infused with common sense.............................& he has a very fitting user name fo this thread
I'd agree too. TBH I don't think any of us on the thread has really strayed too far either side of than view though. I believe we're mostly just quibbling details and maybe the wording.
Some of these threads are bang out of order, some hard to bear. No wonder some people get rattled when these bears come to a grisly end. Then again some people just want to pull the wool over their eyes.
wisney me
wisney me
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Its a complicated subject these days that won't get solved here but its good that people get their viewpoints out there.
Its hard to be clear in emails and easy to be misunderstood,,,and then takes a while to unravel.
I live in BC,,in bear country ,,and have worked and lived in or next to the bush for 40+ yrs. I have had allot of bear encounters of all sorts,,,up close and personal. I live in an area where hunters come to hunt Elk,,deer,,etc. When i go for hikes which is right out my door i run into bears on the mnt and i know the cougars are watching me as well. I'm not so sure that we as a specie have learned much of anything when it comes to our own and others sustainability on this planet. For every thoughtful act of conservation there seems to be another 99 acts of out right devastation of one thing or another whether it be trees, animals what have you. I'm still outraged at the amount of garbage hunters leave when they come out to so called "feed their families",,,i know cause i clean it up.
If we as human beings don't completely change our ways,,(rampant consumerism, time obsolescence in everything, overeating of crap, and just outright selfishness ,) there will not be anything left
We need to become allot more appreciative of nature and how we are a part of it, not separate from it.
Ok time ,,end of rant,,time for tea.
PS- most handguns will not stop a grizzly in time , if at all ,,regardless of what you think or how comfortable you are with guns. Bear spray works very well for Grizzlies,,,or a rifle if you have to.
Bill
Its hard to be clear in emails and easy to be misunderstood,,,and then takes a while to unravel.
I live in BC,,in bear country ,,and have worked and lived in or next to the bush for 40+ yrs. I have had allot of bear encounters of all sorts,,,up close and personal. I live in an area where hunters come to hunt Elk,,deer,,etc. When i go for hikes which is right out my door i run into bears on the mnt and i know the cougars are watching me as well. I'm not so sure that we as a specie have learned much of anything when it comes to our own and others sustainability on this planet. For every thoughtful act of conservation there seems to be another 99 acts of out right devastation of one thing or another whether it be trees, animals what have you. I'm still outraged at the amount of garbage hunters leave when they come out to so called "feed their families",,,i know cause i clean it up.
If we as human beings don't completely change our ways,,(rampant consumerism, time obsolescence in everything, overeating of crap, and just outright selfishness ,) there will not be anything left
We need to become allot more appreciative of nature and how we are a part of it, not separate from it.
Ok time ,,end of rant,,time for tea.
PS- most handguns will not stop a grizzly in time , if at all ,,regardless of what you think or how comfortable you are with guns. Bear spray works very well for Grizzlies,,,or a rifle if you have to.
Bill
There lies the dilemma. Even a large caliber handgun is marginal (at best) but a long gun is difficult to always have near at hand if you're fishing or cutting firewood, etc. and even more difficult to un-sling and aim in time for a bear charge. Bear spray has its place, I just don't really trust it completely.
