Disgusting!

[Rob Tangtent]

if you beat those thugs silly, nothing will happen. it will only make them feel more inclined to go do it again.
for example, if i nicked a chocolate bar from my dad. he found out and beat me up. faced with that situation again id want to nick another chocolat bar just to **** him off.

if instead he were to point out what i did wrong, then accept my apologie the world would be a better place, now i know that chavs might not see there fault so they need a more stern punishment, but not violence.
it isnt the answer to beat the, the poo out of people, that just pospones the problem.
punishment and violence can be two differnt things. it isnt the answer to just start beating stuff up

 

[Rob Tangtent]

sure in some extreme cases, like the police marksman one. force might be the only answer. but police try to reason with them first.

in the case in hand those thugs shouldnt be beaten up. when i wrote 'violence is never the way forward' i ment that in order to improve the case violence wont help. sure you could beat those thugs up but really that wont help matters. if you were to help them, it would help the case, beating them up will just make the matter worse

 

[locum76]

Unfortunately, the military has to be what it is to do what it does.

I wasn't actually referring to the military but to the unenlightened bozos that manage populations across the world.

 

[Goatboy]

if you beat those thugs silly, nothing will happen. it will only make them feel more inclined to go do it again.
for example, if i nicked a chocolate bar from my dad. he found out and beat me up. faced with that situation again id want to nick another chocolat bar just to **** him off.

if instead he were to point out what i did wrong, then accept my apologie the world would be a better place, now i know that chavs might not see there fault so they need a more stern punishment, but not violence.
it isnt the answer to beat the, the poo out of people, that just pospones the problem.
punishment and violence can be two differnt things. it isnt the answer to just start beating stuff up

OK so you appologise, but you have to mean it this implies that you have had mental punishment. So it is a punishment and your behaviour is altered, job done. I think what people are frustrated at is that no apperent punishment for these acts as our legal and penal systems cant cope. Someone mentioned the Moors Murderers earlier and the fact that our system didn't stop them. Well it did, they are / were incarserated with no real chance of getting out to do it again. Yet many many murderers today serve very short seemingly meaningless ( well to the victims families anyway ) sentences. Yes we lock up a lot of people, but they have slightly better living conditions to many people living below the poverty line and still paying taxes to keep to keep them in this relative comfort. Heck in the Bar -L they won their case and got a large payout for having to slop out. Many nursing friends were pretty incensed by that one as they slop out other folk with no extra compensation. All folk are asking is that the punishment / correction fits the crime and works.

Goatboy.

 

[HillBill]

I wasn't actually referring to the military but to the unenlightened bozos that manage populations across the world.

Ah a misunderstanding

Generally nothing i expect. Money and power being the driving forces behind all wars. Population control is always relevant too. We have no predators. We are out of balance. They have been attempting to control the population since the druids started doing it. No leaders make their own decisions anyway, they get their orders and then have to justify it to the peoples. It is the weak men behind the scenes who are the vicious one.

To them soldiers are dumb animals which serve a purpose and the rest of the people are worthless consuming animals. Sheep to be sheared if you like. The rulers (official ones) are the farmers ( but only rent the farm) and we are the cash crop and its nearing harvest time. The violence in society will never stop while these people control the land. It is their tool of control, fear. If their is no fear that anyone will attack us why do we need gov and military to protect us? We wouldn't would we so there would be no use for them and they can't have that.

 

[locum76]

That is more less my world view too and I feel that the despicable act in the OP is a symptom of it. To prevent things like that happening changes have to be made at the top as the viciousness cascades all the way down from there and will only get worse as populations and the pressure on resources increases.

Acts of violence reflected on criminals and locking people up is a hiding to nothing. It has clearly never worked.

The rage spewed forth at these young men is another symptom.

 

[SimonM]

That is simply not true Huon

He said "Violence is never the way forward".

He did not say anything about "in this instance"

Sometimes violence is the only way to resist violence and opression. My point is this applies in both the microcosm as well as the macrocosom. Many violent and opressive individuals are only subdued and prevented from harming innocents by acts of force and violence.

Do you think most murderers and rapists give up and don't have to be restrained? Do you think they would not attack prison guards and escape without the threat of violent response?

So my point is violence often is the ONLY way forward. Once you accept this point it is a question of degree and proportion, The argument that "violence is never the answer" is both trite and untrue.

If you would use violence to prevent a child being abused and murdered then you accept the point that violence absolutely CAN be the answer sometimes. After that we are arguing about proprotionality.


Red

I have to agree with BR on this.

Having worked with some VERY violent teenagers, in a secure school setting, sometimes the only apt response is to use physical force to prevent injury to others and sometimes self.

I personally had few problems in my lessons - others were constantly calling for support. Why the difference? I was fair in my use of the training given, and would de-escalate most stuations, but when push came to shove (literally!) I was robust in my response!

Sometimes force / violence is the only answer to prevent wrong doing.

Simon

 

[sam_acw]

Similar thing happened about 9 months ago in Poland with kids and a young puppy. The legal system decided they didn't know the impacts and results of their actions despite filming it and laughing about it on their mobile phones.

As for the use of violence - a few years spent studying conflict resolution and peace research was interesting for me in that despite everyone agreeing that violence was wrong, people find it very hard to define why.
Johan Galtung's idea of structural violence is interesting. There is a great article linking direct physical violence with cultural violence (legitimising it - i.e. "it's ok, he's just a tramp") and structural violence (social inequality). Sadly I can't find a free copy of it anywhere - this is the closest.

 

[Iona]

I feel that there is a difference between using force/violence as a tool to prevent or difuse an existing violent/dangerous situation, and using it in anger or as a punishment after the fact, when, in my opinion there are better options...

 

[durulz]

I feel that there is a difference between using force/violence as a tool to prevent or difuse an existing violent/dangerous situation, and using it in anger or as a punishment after the fact, when, in my opinion there are better options...

Yes, I agree. That's a very important distinction.

 

[sandbender]

Arrests made...

BBC News.

 

[Shewie]

Arrests made...

BBC News.

Just been reading that, I hope they get what they deserve and nothing less.

 

[East Coaster]

I'm glad they've been caught so quickly. Can only hope that the publicity generated by this inhumane act means they are made examples of.

 

[locum76]

I hope they are given an opportunity to redeem themselves.

 

[British Red]

I hope they are given an opportunity to redeem themselves.

I hope the knife is blunt and rusty

 

[Arth]

I wonder what sort of person could do such a thing? Was it a form of communication, a cry for attention or help? either way they need to be caught and punished.

Edit; they have been caught. Sorry missed the post.

 

[gregorach]

I hope the knife is blunt and rusty

Then you're really no better than they are in my view. And I do mean that most sincerely, without an iota of hyperbole. You're every bit as bad as them. Possibly worse, since you're fantasizing about inflicting pointless suffering on people, and you presumably have a fully developed prefrontal cortex, which these bams won't have for another few years. (Unless you have some kind of brain injury or other organic disorder affecting the prefrontal cortex, in which case I apologise and can only offer my sympathies.)

Being the compassionate type that I am, I don't want to make you suffer for it. But I do wonder what has happened to you to make you so full of anger and cruelty.

 

[British Red]

Its interesting that you consider suffering pointless. The purpose of all punishment is to inflict some form of suffering as a consequence with negative conotations on an unacceptable act. I can only conclude if suffering is pointless then you consider punishment pointless too.

If you believe that punishment for acts of cruelty and I think its fair to say evil, is pointless, then we will never agree.

One day if we meet in person, I'll be happy to describe to you a number of things that make me think this way - not least the vicious thugs that I have had the misfortune to encounter to have laughed out loud at social workers, the probation system and other attempts at understanding and rehabilitation - and gone one to inflict misery and suffering on the innocent.

However this has the capacity to turn very nasty - so...I'm out

Red

 

[Purdy Bear]

Im very glad these people have been caught and hopefully will get a decent jail sentence.

I also hope they they all get a psychiatric assessment, as I believe, animal cruelty is the first steps on the road to psychotic problems.

Unfortunately some saw the sweet toddlar who flushed the puppy down the drain, as a complete innocent, me personally, I didnt, I saw something way nastier.

 

[jackson]

I have to agree with Red on this one, these people should be locked up for a LONG time and have things equally done to them. I only think this because prisons these days are a joke, the prison near me (peterborough) had inmates complaining that the lights in the state of the art gym were to bright and you no what, they lights got replaced.
things needs to change in this country