Disability and behavior of members
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From where I stand, there seem to be two ways to move forward with this - neither of them are ideal (otherwise society would have overcome this issue centuries ago)
1 - you identify who has mental health issues or a behavioural disorder right at the beginning of every meeting - that way people can adjust their behaviour towards that individual, as they see fit - this can also be classed as discrimination, in a certain light.
2- you buddy those people who need special consideration with people who can inform the people that dont know them as and when appropriate.
As I see it, bushcrafters are a tough and mostly solitary lot, and more aware of how to do things in a bushcrafting environment, and as they have honed their skills and are not overly apt to suffer fools gladly - if you display behaviour in common with someone who would annoy them, you either have to explain, or face the consequences for socially 'challenging' behaviour. I have taken people with aspergers and severe depression camping, and have tried both approaches - neither are perfect, but this is more due to society blurring the edges of mental disorders and illness and that of anti-social behaviour, brought on by poor parenting.
If we could rely on everybody without such a disorder to behave to a reasonable standard, it would be obvious who had such a problem, straight from the start of the conversation.
1 - you identify who has mental health issues or a behavioural disorder right at the beginning of every meeting - that way people can adjust their behaviour towards that individual, as they see fit - this can also be classed as discrimination, in a certain light.
2- you buddy those people who need special consideration with people who can inform the people that dont know them as and when appropriate.
As I see it, bushcrafters are a tough and mostly solitary lot, and more aware of how to do things in a bushcrafting environment, and as they have honed their skills and are not overly apt to suffer fools gladly - if you display behaviour in common with someone who would annoy them, you either have to explain, or face the consequences for socially 'challenging' behaviour. I have taken people with aspergers and severe depression camping, and have tried both approaches - neither are perfect, but this is more due to society blurring the edges of mental disorders and illness and that of anti-social behaviour, brought on by poor parenting.
If we could rely on everybody without such a disorder to behave to a reasonable standard, it would be obvious who had such a problem, straight from the start of the conversation.
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What a horrible thread this is.
YUK
Does it really warrant this much discussion and qualification? Is this really the place to discuss it?
Total minefield if you ask me which will serve very little useful purpose on the forum.
Would be nice for the mods to lock it in my opinion.
YUK
Does it really warrant this much discussion and qualification? Is this really the place to discuss it?
Total minefield if you ask me which will serve very little useful purpose on the forum.
Would be nice for the mods to lock it in my opinion.
Crikey! thats a bit strong, isn't it?
It's a forum so yes, this is the place to discuss it. As far as I can guess, it's in the right section too.
Does it warrant "this much" discussion and qualification? Well, with 6 pages of responses and some well considered views, I think it does. In fact, this thread alone caused me to significantly assess how I see and evaluate others so on that basis alone, it has been positive. I was lucky enough to give the OP a lift to the 'moot last year and I'm grateful for the opportunity to learn from her and become a better person (hopefully) for it.
I don't understand why you would want it locked; I perceive that you want to put a stop to anything you don't like without a thought for whether others gain benefit from it?
In line with my earlier post, I'm really trying hard to see how I could help you understand the content of this thread but I'm failing unfortunately. I can only apologise for that.
It's a forum so yes, this is the place to discuss it. As far as I can guess, it's in the right section too.
Does it warrant "this much" discussion and qualification? Well, with 6 pages of responses and some well considered views, I think it does. In fact, this thread alone caused me to significantly assess how I see and evaluate others so on that basis alone, it has been positive. I was lucky enough to give the OP a lift to the 'moot last year and I'm grateful for the opportunity to learn from her and become a better person (hopefully) for it.
I don't understand why you would want it locked; I perceive that you want to put a stop to anything you don't like without a thought for whether others gain benefit from it?
In line with my earlier post, I'm really trying hard to see how I could help you understand the content of this thread but I'm failing unfortunately. I can only apologise for that.
Thought it was a Bushcraft forum, I had not realized that its ethos had changed.
Some may find it entertaining but then the thread does not seem to be going anywhere.
I certainly don't use the place to talk about various medical syndromes, after all we would have enough to start another forum altogether.
Seems a bit off course, but hey if you want to talk about it, carry on. Seems like it will dig up trouble as several have already been defending their own actions.
Just seems like trouble to me. Especially for the over sensitive "Bleeding Hearts". Suppose it will give them something to cry themselves to sleep over though.
Some may find it entertaining but then the thread does not seem to be going anywhere.
I certainly don't use the place to talk about various medical syndromes, after all we would have enough to start another forum altogether.
Seems a bit off course, but hey if you want to talk about it, carry on. Seems like it will dig up trouble as several have already been defending their own actions.
Just seems like trouble to me. Especially for the over sensitive "Bleeding Hearts". Suppose it will give them something to cry themselves to sleep over though.
Ah! Now that, I can make sense of.
I see this thread as valuable, not necessarily for the content but for what the content does to me. Like I said, it made me think but to be honest, I was already thinking and open to change so it wasn't necessarily the only factor there.
This being a forum, it hosts many people with many different agendas but I've been around this one for a while and I'd say that a lot are here to learn. Threads like this might no have a direct bushy angle but if they trigger just one person to change their thought process and open their mind, the rest of the learning follows suit and their bushcrafting will benefit from it. I know because mine did.
I guess it is off course but as it is in "Off Topic>Other Chatter" it is only to be expected. As for digging up trouble, well, some folks will find problems with anything. It could be regarded as a sensitive issue, for sure, but overall I think that it has been handled reasonably well here. As I loosely stated earlier, I do have difficulty with some folks. If the over-sensitive come by here and have an issue with the content, they can always just move on and not come back. In return, I won't come after them and force them to take part. Sometimes though, they just get so upset that they can't bring themselves to leave...thats when I get intolerant!
I see this thread as valuable, not necessarily for the content but for what the content does to me. Like I said, it made me think but to be honest, I was already thinking and open to change so it wasn't necessarily the only factor there.
This being a forum, it hosts many people with many different agendas but I've been around this one for a while and I'd say that a lot are here to learn. Threads like this might no have a direct bushy angle but if they trigger just one person to change their thought process and open their mind, the rest of the learning follows suit and their bushcrafting will benefit from it. I know because mine did.
I guess it is off course but as it is in "Off Topic>Other Chatter" it is only to be expected. As for digging up trouble, well, some folks will find problems with anything. It could be regarded as a sensitive issue, for sure, but overall I think that it has been handled reasonably well here. As I loosely stated earlier, I do have difficulty with some folks. If the over-sensitive come by here and have an issue with the content, they can always just move on and not come back. In return, I won't come after them and force them to take part. Sometimes though, they just get so upset that they can't bring themselves to leave...thats when I get intolerant!
Yep, I agree with that last posting Trip.
I attended a BushcraftUK moot around three or four years ago, and every one was very helpful polite and courteous, so what has changed? New members maybe?
Certainly a few armchair bushcrafters/ pretenders, here now, so maybe there are some with little or no personal skills.
I attended a BushcraftUK moot around three or four years ago, and every one was very helpful polite and courteous, so what has changed? New members maybe?
Certainly a few armchair bushcrafters/ pretenders, here now, so maybe there are some with little or no personal skills.
Ah, I don't know mate. I'm not sure anything has changed so much; I didn't witness anything but last year was a different feel. I don't think I was involved at any rate - I'd be a bit down if I was and didn't realise it but then maybe anyone that was involved felt the same way?
Thats why I think this thread was so important - perhaps it made people think - was it me? Whether it was or not isn't as important as what I took away - COULD it have been me, is that how I act? That is why I changed as a result - I went from unconciously incompetant to unconciously competant I think. Now it is natural.
Thats why I think this thread was so important - perhaps it made people think - was it me? Whether it was or not isn't as important as what I took away - COULD it have been me, is that how I act? That is why I changed as a result - I went from unconciously incompetant to unconciously competant I think. Now it is natural.
The bottom line is that it's up to the sufferer of the syndrome to make himself known, and they are aware of that, they are also well versed in the problems associated with their particular syndrome.
An ADHD for instance "sufferer" will look just that same as any other person, we are not to know they have a problem, and will treat them the same as any other person.
Quite frankly if the syndrome is severe enough to cause a social problem then it is down to the individual to decide whether he is fit to be part of the group, and if he can control himself sufficiently to be an active part of the group.
If he has decided that he can, then he should then inform the person in charge of the group of his issues. Not just walk around like a ticking time bomb waiting to be upset or offended or get a slap from an unwary person
I work with such types on a daily basis, and there is no need for things to get to the point that someone gets upset, and that means planning and communication, but that has to be initially on the part of the sufferer/ patient. WE are not mind readers
It might also be worth noting that this is just a social group, and to burden it with having to cater for every conceivable syndrome is asking too much. It could even push things over the edge.
Now you might see why I am uneasy about this thread.
Do we have to open a BushcraftUK Asperges section, followed then by....
I am sure you know what I mean.
An ADHD for instance "sufferer" will look just that same as any other person, we are not to know they have a problem, and will treat them the same as any other person.
Quite frankly if the syndrome is severe enough to cause a social problem then it is down to the individual to decide whether he is fit to be part of the group, and if he can control himself sufficiently to be an active part of the group.
If he has decided that he can, then he should then inform the person in charge of the group of his issues. Not just walk around like a ticking time bomb waiting to be upset or offended or get a slap from an unwary person
I work with such types on a daily basis, and there is no need for things to get to the point that someone gets upset, and that means planning and communication, but that has to be initially on the part of the sufferer/ patient. WE are not mind readers
It might also be worth noting that this is just a social group, and to burden it with having to cater for every conceivable syndrome is asking too much. It could even push things over the edge.
Now you might see why I am uneasy about this thread.
Do we have to open a BushcraftUK Asperges section, followed then by....
I am sure you know what I mean.
Test score suggests I'm 100% NORMAL which will be a great comfort to the Home Office Firearms Certificate Renewal Department.
I did though use to iron my pants before a date??
Cheers!
I did though use to iron my pants before a date??
Cheers!
Interesting thread.
As someone who is dyslexic,dyspraxic,and a few others, I can relate to things in this thread. I have found the bushcraft people to generally be very freindly lot. BUT I have not been to a meet yet [a) I prefer not to travel 100's of miles for a weekend(trying to not do 'extra miles') b)I must admit to being a little 'scared' as to making a fool of myself.] I am one of those people that asks loads of questions and can easily(without wanting to) take over conversations.
I love nature and bushcraft and I try not to 'take things personally'.
I have noticed in other environments that groups of people can very easily find someone to be the 'butt' of the jokes. Nowt wrong with that per say. but people like me have to remind ourselves that its odne in fun and not a personal attack.
And yes I am someone who will say that you bum looks big in those trousers lol much to the annoyance of my wife!
Alan
P.S. I am NOT an armchair person I do camp/do bushcraft but up till now it has been by myself because of reasons above.
As someone who is dyslexic,dyspraxic,and a few others, I can relate to things in this thread. I have found the bushcraft people to generally be very freindly lot. BUT I have not been to a meet yet [a) I prefer not to travel 100's of miles for a weekend(trying to not do 'extra miles') b)I must admit to being a little 'scared' as to making a fool of myself.] I am one of those people that asks loads of questions and can easily(without wanting to) take over conversations.
I love nature and bushcraft and I try not to 'take things personally'.
I have noticed in other environments that groups of people can very easily find someone to be the 'butt' of the jokes. Nowt wrong with that per say. but people like me have to remind ourselves that its odne in fun and not a personal attack.
And yes I am someone who will say that you bum looks big in those trousers lol much to the annoyance of my wife!
Alan
P.S. I am NOT an armchair person I do camp/do bushcraft but up till now it has been by myself because of reasons above.
salan me and you sound like we would get on like house on fire cos alot of what you said rings true with me aswell
For those who read Norwegian or Swedish this page could be of intrest.
http://blogg.nrk.no/ingengrenser/
The "show" called "No boundaries" is currently broadcasted on Norwegian television. 11 disabled persons are trying to get from Luleå in Sweden to Hellemobotn in Norway.
It is Lars monsens latest tv "stunt".
Tor
http://blogg.nrk.no/ingengrenser/
The "show" called "No boundaries" is currently broadcasted on Norwegian television. 11 disabled persons are trying to get from Luleå in Sweden to Hellemobotn in Norway.
It is Lars monsens latest tv "stunt".
Tor
To all you guys and gals who have any sort of impairment -- good on your for talking about it and getting on with a fulfilling life.
Pity everyone isn't like that, including a hell of a lot of "unimpaired" people.
Two of my greatest heroes are Douglas Bader and that guy Simon who was badly burned in the Falklands War!
Bader even used his impairment to advantage by unstrapping one of his false legs when it stopped him parachuting out of his doomed plane!
and Simon has done so much good for children suffering horrible burn disfigurement!
Heroes indeed!
Pity everyone isn't like that, including a hell of a lot of "unimpaired" people.
Two of my greatest heroes are Douglas Bader and that guy Simon who was badly burned in the Falklands War!
Bader even used his impairment to advantage by unstrapping one of his false legs when it stopped him parachuting out of his doomed plane!
and Simon has done so much good for children suffering horrible burn disfigurement!
Heroes indeed!
I have to agree with everything you said here mate. It's always going to a bit of both - people are not mind readers, and there will be some situations where people will take things said in the wrong context. Internet forums are a prime example
I'll treat everyone the same regardless of how they act - up until a point. If however you make people aware that some situations cause you problems, people can then adjust their behavior to compensate. We can't be all knowing. The `normal` social rules are just adhered to by the majority of people, because it's common ground. My brother says he has aspergers, and his kids have adhd, hyperactivity, etc.etc. probably from my dad who is a bit weird. To be honest, I'll probably never bother taking those online tests to see if I have that kind of label. I'm just me - I know what situations I'm good in, and what ones I'm bad in. I really don't care to be labeled or to use this as an excuse like my brother does. I'm too busy getting on with life..
Edited to also add, someone said that Tolerance is respect. I think you're wrong - Tolerance is tolerating someone or something else, regardless of how you feel about it. You tolerate a kid on a bus shouting, or a baby crying on an plane seat next to you. You don't have to think it's right, or agree with it.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAArgh is this thread still going?
Well I suppose I shouldn't mind as it is the thread that brought me into this forum in the first place I confess.
I wouldn't say my autism has never got me into trouble, because most recently I have scored a rather spectacular home goal. However that being said, you can be autistic or you can be an a***hole. It's not mutually exclusive or vice versa.
In any community regardless you find people you get on with, and those who just push the wrong buttons.
Maybe I do push the wrong buttons too often but that is actually the reason why some people like me.
A long long time ago, before I was even conceptualised as autistic, I can recall a discussion I had with a group of anarchists regarding alternate communities, and when it came to it some guy said to me, that inspite of all that individualism that I displayed, if it came to joining in, in order to gather in the harvest I would be there. And I guess that is right.
You either like me or you don't and it you don't, it's not my loss
Well I suppose I shouldn't mind as it is the thread that brought me into this forum in the first place I confess.
I wouldn't say my autism has never got me into trouble, because most recently I have scored a rather spectacular home goal. However that being said, you can be autistic or you can be an a***hole. It's not mutually exclusive or vice versa.
In any community regardless you find people you get on with, and those who just push the wrong buttons.
Maybe I do push the wrong buttons too often but that is actually the reason why some people like me.
A long long time ago, before I was even conceptualised as autistic, I can recall a discussion I had with a group of anarchists regarding alternate communities, and when it came to it some guy said to me, that inspite of all that individualism that I displayed, if it came to joining in, in order to gather in the harvest I would be there. And I guess that is right.
You either like me or you don't and it you don't, it's not my loss
I agree with you lot disabilityss are in all of us in one way or another but at the end of the road we all are stronger in some subjects than others
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