"Cotton Kills"

[Wayland]

As with most sound bites, there is some truth in the statement but it is a huge generalisation.

I am a big fan of wool in the UK but in dry continental sub zero conditions cotton canvas and Ventile make a significant contribution to my kit.

 

[John Fenna]

The Norgie - I remember it well!
I eventually cut mine up to make wash cloths and small towels! This proved a better use of the fabric in anything other than polar weather...
I do have an Arktis top made of wool to the Norgie pattern which is excellent

 

[Countryman]

I have a couple of Norgies and I still wear them.

Comfortable, wicking and cosy.

You wear them as a base layer, underneath waterproofs.

There is a clue there in how you wear comfortable cotton and not die in the wet and cold!


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[John Fenna]

I have a couple of Norgies and I still wear them.

Comfortable, wicking and cosy.

You wear them as a base layer, underneath waterproofs.

There is a clue there in how you wear comfortable cotton and not die in the wet and cold!


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I am a right sweaty beast so I want wicking or woollen thermals!
If I dress for warmth at rest and them walk in to a spot for sitting or sleeping in I will sweat cobs even if I strip right down ....

 

[MikeLA]

I seem to remember that 'Cotton Kills' was the name of a whole American website devoted to tales of people dying of hypothermia due to wandering around in a pair of jeans and a Fruit of the Loom T-shirt in the depths of winter. Considering the winters in much of the US, I can see why its a big deal.

As Toddy pointed out, cotton loves moisture. And in most winter conditions, once cotton gets wet, it stays wet, be it sweat, melted snow, etc. In the UK, we get cold and damp, so on the whole, best avoided. The Norgie is warm, when its dry, but have you ever seen a top made out of cotton towelling in any hiking store? There is a reason for that (and the reason my Norgie is in the car, as part of the emergency kit). On the other hand, being cotton, it doesn't burn easily, and its cheap.

I wish I could go with wool (there is a whole load of cheap merino tops and bottoms at my local Aldi), but I itch like hell with it, so its synthetics (or a cotton mix) for me. The bamboo T-shirts from Aldi are great, though. The biggest problem probably comes from people getting into conditions they never expected, in clothes they thought were fine.

I wore a norgie all through my Army career and when it was wet my body heat dried it. Never had a problem on Runs or bergan runs in the field or a cotton t-shirt in the barrack runs. Usually just wearing this and a issue smock. We all did and seemed to do fine. I guess its just something in people or different times

 

[Laurentius]

I wore a norgie all through my Army career and when it was wet my body heat dried it. Never had a problem on Runs or bergan runs in the field or a cotton t-shirt in the barrack runs. Usually just wearing this and a issue smock. We all did and seemed to do fine. I guess its just something in people or different times

Not the point though, if you are active enough and have enough calories to dry wet clothing out you could be wearing a wet towelling robe and it would not matter, where it does matter is where you are wet through, exhausted and immobile, and all that body heat is not being replenished, then having an adequate insulation layer matters. Other than in summer when I might only be wearing a T shirt anyway, I prefer to wear either a merino or technical base layer as I sweat buckets.

 

[The Lord Poncho]

To be honest, I'd forgotten about the norgy. They were indeed the 'must have' item in the early 90's, to the extent the army started issuing them. They aren't issued any longer though (unless stores are using up old supplies) , and I can't recall the last time I saw someone wearing them in the field, so I guess things have gone the full circle. The times I have worn them, they have kept be warm, I must admit. Can't remember if they were ever soaked through though.

Hilariously I recall one individual in the early 90's who had just purchased himself a norgy, and was determined to wear it on an absolutely scorching summers day - his reasoning being that it 'wicked the sweat away from you, and therefore kept you cool'. Lunatic.

 

[Brewers Whoop]

There's a lot of polyester-cotton blend 'thermal' underwear available, for a lot less £ than merino or other non-homicidal fibres/blends. Any views/experience? How does this blend perform as a baselayer? Does it reduce the chill inducing moisture retention of just cotton after strenuous activity in cold weather?

 

[Toddy]

If you don't want 'homicidal' then you could buy bamboo it's very good.

I've worn the polycotton stuff, and so long as you stop the windchill, it works, but it's not comfortable to wear for long if it gets damp….either from the weather or sweat…. and like all of the modern wick aways, it is reputed to get smelly after a bit; that's why there are specialised liquid soaps and conditioners for these items. I find it gets bobbly, saggy, looks tired, very quickly too.

Each to their own, and budget's a very individual thing. I'm also conscious that not every one works hard in their thermals or day in day out either.

M

 

[Old Bones]

Cotton still sucks up moisture, so thats a factor. Frankly, decent synthetic baselayers are not very expensive (Cotswold do the HH Lifa combo all in for £40), but you pays your money, you takes your choice.

 

[S.C.M.]

I don't think I have any trousers that don't have at least some cotton in them! (I wish I had some nice warm trousers for lounging about in though, but I've never seen any) most of my shirts are cotton or blends of cotton. my understanding was that the right application of cotton is where it won't get wet, either in sub-zero temps or non-rainy climates or where it will dry out fast: a thin cotton t-shirt or long-sleeve t-shirt, for instance, covered by your warm layers. Falling into a stream in cotton clothes, when cold, is absolutely lethal, that much I understand, but a thin base layer or ventile waterproof is exactly where cotton is good, isn't it?

 

[Toddy]

Only if you can dry it out, or keep the wind off you.
Ventile as an outer works because the water swells the cotton and the weave is so tight that it becomes showerproof and more importantly, windproof. It can take days to dry out though, and the fabric gets really stiff as it becomes soaked. It's still quiet and comfortable though.

Richard (rik uk) said he used to wear jeans all the time on the hills, but if it rained he put on waterproofs pdq.
I've worked in them just like that, but they get damp with sweat and they stay damp and they take ages to dry out in our damp climate. If I stopped moving then I became bitterly cold pdq

Time and place; cotton is comfortable, can be both very warm as an insulating layer or cool when woven light and airy. Old fashioned string vests worked because they had loads of ventilation as well as acting as insulation when covered up with other layers.
Cotton really gets used because it's cheap, and it's cheaper yet when mixed with polyester.

Think of it as a thirsty fabric; it's why it makes such good towels

M

p.s. Craghoppers make lined trousers, and family members love them; warm and comfortable.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Craghoppers..._sim_sg_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=17Z6BAQZCZZNZEKQCWVX

 

[lannyman8]

cotton is mostly all i have, they get wet all the time, as long as your moving they are all good and if it stops raining they do dry out from your body heat...

 

[garethw]

Craghoppers make lined trousers, and family members love them; warm and comfortable.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Craghoppers..._sim_sg_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=17Z6BAQZCZZNZEKQCWVX

These are my daily wear once the temps drop... nice and warm, comfy and the fabric dries pretty fast. If Its going to rain, or I'm out fishing I use a pair of MTP goretex over trousers.
cheers
Gareth

 

[S.C.M.]

Only if you can dry it out, or keep the wind off you.
Ventile as an outer works because the water swells the cotton and the weave is so tight that it becomes showerproof and more importantly, windproof. It can take days to dry out though, and the fabric gets really stiff as it becomes soaked. It's still quiet and comfortable though.

Richard (rik uk) said he used to wear jeans all the time on the hills, but if it rained he put on waterproofs pdq.
I've worked in them just like that, but they get damp with sweat and they stay damp and they take ages to dry out in our damp climate. If I stopped moving then I became bitterly cold pdq

Time and place; cotton is comfortable, can be both very warm as an insulating layer or cool when woven light and airy. Old fashioned string vests worked because they had loads of ventilation as well as acting as insulation when covered up with other layers.
Cotton really gets used because it's cheap, and it's cheaper yet when mixed with polyester.

oooh yeah, I keep forgetting- rain here is heavy and can sometimes last for a while, raining for more than a day is very rare. If you are out in the rain you will get soaked because it's so heavy but if you can stay in shelter or huddle under a tree, ledge (balcony, those things out the front of shops and cafes if you're in a city) or in the lee side of something you can avoid most of it.
people don't really work in the rain here, because you can't, it's that heavy... I've forgotten what british rain is like!
so yeah, I can see why cotton is rubbish in prolonged rain, but hey, like you say, it's cheap!

 

[Toddy]

It's been a very, very, mild Winter here….but the hot yellow ball thing in the sky is pretty much a stranger the rain however, is no stranger, and neither's the cold wind
We average over a metre of rain a year here. Wet cotton is miserable. The hills average well over a metre and a half….and combine that with bitter cold winds and sodden wet cotton and that's beyond miserable. That's why some say that cotton kills.
It doesn't, but exposure and loss of body heat does.

The rain is stotting off the windows tonight and there's a gale roaring too. The trees are blowing around like some demented nightmare with the wind howling through them.
Stay safe

M

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I have a Norgie, and wear it a lot for work, as it's warm enough for nipping between the van/warehouse/pubs, without having to get out the van and put a jacket on. But, the moment it gets wet, it gets cold. I've used it to cycle to work in the past, but again, the sweating made it very cold. They are lovely and warm, but I'll not wear it if there is any wet be it rain or sweat.

Julia

 

[S.C.M.]

It's been a very, very, mild Winter here….but the hot yellow ball thing in the sky is pretty much a stranger the rain however, is no stranger, and neither's the cold wind
We average over a metre of rain a year here. Wet cotton is miserable. The hills average well over a metre and a half….and combine that with bitter cold winds and sodden wet cotton and that's beyond miserable. That's why some say that cotton kills.
It doesn't, but exposure and loss of body heat does.

The rain is stotting off the windows tonight and there's a gale roaring too. The trees are blowing around like some demented nightmare with the wind howling through them.
Stay safe

M

we actually get a lot of rain in Portugal, apparently about the same as the UK (or so I've been told ... just looked it up:about 0.5m down here in the algarve and 1.25 up north in Porto) but this is a quite dry winter. It's been consistently sunny for a while now. I'll see if I have any photos to whack up on the pic of the day thread
Even so, everything dries out fast down here, unless its raining

 

[Toddy]

Wet and cold is our world…..half a metre is drought weather here
We're fair skinned for a reason, it's an adjustment to survive with low vitamin D from low sunshine levels.

M

 

[S.C.M.]

I remember! I'm from Northumberland, but I've been here something like 13 years (more than half my life!)
more than three weeks without rain is a drought, if I'm remembering right... hosepipe ban and all!