Does base layer material matter if it's under wool?

nigelp

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As far as I understand the smell is caused by bacteria breaking up long chain fatty acids secreted by skin to short chain ones that tend to smell bad. Those fibers that for some reason retain the bacteria even after normal wash are the smelly ones. Traditionally acetic acid has been one chemical that kills the bacteria without destroying the fibers. There is sometimes problems with colour retention.

As far as I know it is not really known why some natural fibers do not let the bacteria stay on the surface. It does make evolutionary sense though for fur bearing animals. Silver and copper are two metals that kill bacteria, some high end fabrics have had silver fibers embedded to fight the odour, I have no experience on those. Titanium oxide in certain form together with sun light also kills bacteria and degrades organic matter so some Ti cups are slightly self cleaning.

If some one invents a reasonably priced non smelly man made fiber he is going to make a fortune.
The Rohan shirts are impregnated with silver. They work very well to reduce odour.
 
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C_Claycomb

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The Rohan shirts are impregnated with silver. They work very well to reduce odour.
Mileage varies. I have a number of their t-shirts and while the silver ones are better than the non-silver, I get smelly in all of them much faster than I do in wool, or in cotton for that matter.
 
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Erbswurst

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Instead of two minutes in the microwave you also can put your stuff two weeks in the freezer and wash it afterwards.
The bacteria died out, the smell gets wasched out and it's fine without melting your clothing.

I carry neither freezer nor microwave through the woods though.
 

TLM

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you also can put your stuff two weeks in the freezer
Forgot that, it works. One does not even need two weeks if at -25C. I have used it with success for shoes, have to try T-shirts. Haven needed to use the shoe trick since started to use Tee tree oil every now and then.
 

leanrascal

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That may be your opinion but it was published by independent research based on a wide range of materials and by no means the cheapest.

By all means put up objective data you have that compares directly but there is a load of rubbish preached by some of the manufacturers about their materials.

Subjective data is varied :)
If this was "published by independent research" then can you provide your source / references (as in the references you find at the end of scientific research papers showing where statements / data comes from). Right now it looks like a chart anyone could have cooked up themselves.
Thanks.
 

Broch

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If this was "published by independent research" then can you provide your source / references (as in the references you find at the end of scientific research papers showing where statements / data comes from). Right now it looks like a chart anyone could have cooked up themselves.
Thanks.

Yeh, I agree, but unfortunately it is from many years back and I cannot find the original source (though it appears to have been published/reproduced by a number of websites - dangerous I know). I think I should have used the term 'independent testing' rather than research; some things remain subjective.

There is also one glaring mistake in it but I don't know if that is me copying it or in the original - Cotton absorbs 2.5 x its weight in water (or 250%) not 2,500%!
 
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leanrascal

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Yeh, I agree, but unfortunately it is from many years back and I cannot find the original source (though it appears to have been published/reproduced by a number of websites - dangerous I know). I think I should have used the term 'independent testing' rather than research; some things remain subjective.

There is also one glaring mistake in it but I don't know if that is me copying it or in the original - Cotton absorbs 2.5 x its weight in water (or 250%) not 2,500%!
Many thanks for your considerate and honest response. Much appreciated.
 

Erbswurst

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The freezer trick worked on everything I tried. Since I got it from Hilleberg when I asked how to tread a too long too bad stored tent that became my standard procedure for every military surplus equipment that I bought afterwards, natural materials as well as plastic fabrics.

If you freeze the bacteria you don't kill them immediately like in boiling water.
They can't reproduce themselves anymore and really die out.

Because I don't want to infect my other equipment I rather let the stuff very long in the freezer and didn't try out how short it can be.
 

Robson Valley

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No. Work under water in a dry suit, six days a week for six weeks. It was so cold, we wore quilted winter coats. Our mesh layers and quilted layers were replaced every week. I think they got washed but was not my job to quiz the staff. I know that the insides of our suits got a 10% bleach rinse Sunday mornings and a wash-out after that to dry for Monday work.
 

vlrkl

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Oct 25, 2021
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Wow, I seem to have sparked quite a bit of discussion!

A lot of the discussion is about cotton and how it's not wicking. But linen is wicking, right? It's not warm like merino, but wouldn't the wool on top of the linen keep me and the linen warm?

Personally, I hate the feel of synthetic clothing and try to avoid it.

I see a couple people advising me to just not get wet, but what can go wrong will go wrong. For this reason, I've recently ordered a synthetic winter sleeping bag (rather than down). And I'm thinking of going with two CCF pads (rather than CCF + inflatable). Maybe in really cold weather I could fold each CCF pad in half to make a 4-ply torso pad (total R value about 7), and put my pack under my legs?

Stay dry. Wet in a deep Canadian winter will kill you from hypothermia/"exposure". Cotton is a solid carbohydrate fiber with a high bonding affinity for water molecules of perspiration or melted snow. That will stay, stuck to you, until you can find a place to dry out. Wool fiber is protein, oily, and hollow. Not so hydrophilic. Moisture can pass through.
To get straight wool I have to shop for industrial "oil patch" clothes. Expensive and meant for working outdoors all damn day at -30C.

One of the local boys got bogged down last winter. No more than 6-8m snow. The days are so short, they are always totally equipped to help themselves and others so they decided to make a night of it.
This is a "tree hole". It will kill you if you fall in and the snow avalanches in on top of you. As you can see they dug in from the side. Really quite roomy, don't you think?
Do you have a link for those "oil patch" clothes? I did a search but just got things like t-shirts with oil company logos and memes.

Also, thanks for the warning about tree holes/wells. I did some more searching on it. Something I didn't know about.
 

Robson Valley

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The only place west of the Rockies will be the Mark's Work Wearhouse stores. Carhartt, Dakota and Wind River are the branded lines of outdoor winter work clothing. Boots? I'd guess Tolko snowmobile equipment, Dakota and also Baffin.
Chances are you will be stuck with steel toes, maybe not the Baffin and Tolko.
The snowmobile dealerships have fabulous ranges of winter snow clothing.

This is just a little village, 650 if every work-away is home for R&R. However, it is also the top snowmobile riding destination in all of North America. I honestly don't know what's for sale here as outer wear or base layer clothing. I suppose you are expected to show up with all the kit, Avalung and Pieps as well.
 

Billy-o

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Wow, I seem to have sparked quite a bit of discussion!

A lot of the discussion is about cotton and how it's not wicking. But linen is wicking, right?
You do! :)

I've never worn a linen base when it really counts, up a mountain, in the winter, but I often wear a linen shirt under a sweater in cooler weather. It is so comfortable because it's so absorbent for any occasional exertions ... but not wicky, I think. It does dry a lot quicker than cotton, however, and doesn't niff. And, of course, it dries much more quickly in the summer breeze, which is perhaps where the notion it wicks well comes from.

As far as I understand it, the reason that the best wicking materials function because they are not very absorbent and have longish fibres which touch the skin and lead away to the outside (or outside layer). It is why gridded microfleeces work so well. Bit warm in themselves though.

Like you, I wear kind of mainly linen now that it is becoming so cheap ... (well, if you look in the right places). It is also possible to buy high quality linen as fabric for towels etc ... brilliant towels, I should add ... light or heavy waffle. When not buying cheap shirts in sales from Hudson Bay or Amazon, we use this place for sheets, fabric, towels, duvets and so forth.


By the way, Gap sell linen t-shirts, if you are thinking of experimenting
 
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Robson Valley

On a new journey
Nov 24, 2014
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Funny how it matters in conversation now.

We stripped to our undies in the warehouse on the wharf.
Fuqueing bugs, mosquitoes the size of bats.

1/4" mesh tops and bottoms. Don't forget to go pee, that breakfast coffee will give you a pain.
Jump into your dry suit, help each other get locked up.
Gonna be lunch time to get out.
Blow the suit positive and slip into the water to bob around in the shady water under the warehouse wharf until the drag boat picked us up.

I'd like to know what the clothing was that we were issued.
The water was +4C. Chunks of ice to push away.
 

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