Climate Change & Survival.

[ManFriday4]

We are in a relative Co2 famine. 420ppm is only 0.04% of our atmosphere. Plants thrive at 800 to 1200pm, almost doubling yields than current levels. Commercial greenhouses pump Co2 into them for this reason. As a result of increased Co2 and warmth, crop yields are rising and world famine deaths are falling. If C02 levels fall to 150ppm, crops can no longer support agriculture, at 100ppm plant life begins to die.

Fx9tL9fXgAEIXyi by Mark Hill, on Flickr



Using 1850 as a start point for global warming is also a misleading start point as we were only just coming out of the little ice age at that point. It was supposed to get warmer. It will get warmer still. I see the Milankovitch cycle get mentioned, but not the Bray and Eddy solar cycles which are the current climate drivers.

F1wwJ7DX0AEg7oi by Mark Hill, on

Why Milankovich cycles can only contribute to warming now is due to CO2.

We will not be having any more Ice ages for quite some time

Why Milankovitch (Orbital) Cycles Can't Explain Earth's Current Warming - NASA Science

In the last few months, a number of questions have come in asking if NASA has attributed Earth’s recent warming to changes in how Earth moves through space around the Sun: a series of orbital motions known as Milankovitch cycles. What cycles, you ask? Milankovitch cycles include the shape of...

climate.nasa.gov

 

[ManFriday4]

OK then.
Sure.
So you are going to continue to spam this thread. I get it.


Yup, thanks for the data.
You've done your bit.
Bye.

No. You have what you might need.
Good luck

 

[ManFriday4]

@Toddy you are well ahead of the curve. Perennial staples are the ones to keep an eye on.

Sent from my SM-S901B using Tapatalk

 

[Pattree]

I’m out.

 

[HillBill]

Why Milankovich cycles can only contribute to warming now is due to CO2.

We will not be having any more Ice ages for quite some time

Why Milankovitch (Orbital) Cycles Can't Explain Earth's Current Warming - NASA Science

In the last few months, a number of questions have come in asking if NASA has attributed Earth’s recent warming to changes in how Earth moves through space around the Sun: a series of orbital motions known as Milankovitch cycles. What cycles, you ask? Milankovitch cycles include the shape of...

climate.nasa.gov

We have been in the same ice age for the last 2.6million years. There have been 4 previous ice ages in earths history, with an average duration of 161.25 million years. There is a good chance we are closer in time to the dinosaur extinction than we are to the end of this ice age.

There have been a little over 40 glaciations in this current ice age, each one getting colder than the last, with the interglacials getting warmer. Its trending worse, not better.

This interglacial we are currently in, will end relatively shortly. They last between 12k and 15k years. We have been in this one around 12k.

Five_Myr_Climate_Change by Mark Hill, on Flickr

 

[ManFriday4]

We have been in the same ice age for the last 2.6million years. There have been 4 previous ice ages in earths history, with an average duration of 161.25 million years. There is a good chance we are closer in time to the dinosaur extinction than we are to the end of this ice age.

There have been a little over 40 glaciations in this current ice age, each one getting colder than the last, with the interglacials getting warmer. Its trending worse, not better.

This interglacial we are currently in, will end relatively shortly. They last between 12k and 15k years. We have been in this one around 12k.

Five_Myr_Climate_Change by Mark Hill, on Flickr

Who is Mark Hill?

 

[Stew]

Who is Mark Hill?

You just quoted him….

 

[HillBill]

Who is Mark Hill?

Lol, Its my flikr account, Was struggling to upload them directly so i had to go the old route. They are not my graphs. I've been researching this for the last 3 years. I have a lot of data saved on my computer.

 

[Broch]

Who is Mark Hill?

A great philosopher with unquestionable knowledge of life the universe and everything

 

[ManFriday4]

Lol, Its my flikr account, Was struggling to upload them directly so i had to go the old route. They are not my graphs. I've been researching this for the last 3 years. I have a lot of data saved on my computer.

Do they come from peer reviewed climate science, can you link to current data which concurs with your opinion. For example James E Hansens data is based on gas sampling ice cores.

 

[Toddy]

You are rather stuck on pushing Mr Hansen (Dr ? Prof? )'s views.
Do others doing research back him up or dispute ?

 

[HillBill]

Do they come from peer reviewed climate science, can you link to current data which concurs with your opinion. For example James E Hansens data is based on gas sampling ice cores.

Yes. Just google LR04 stack. Or the Bethnic D18O stack. or even Lisiecki and Raymo (2005) Plenty of info for you.

 

[ManFriday4]

You are rather stuck on pushing Mr Hansen (Dr ? Prof? )'s views.
Do others doing research back him up or dispute ?

Dr James E Hansen is 82. Former NASA Jet propulsion lab physicist & climateologist. He went before Congress in the 1980s and warned them about global warming. He was told to pipe down.

He is one of the Giants of climate science & understanding of how warming works and why the Milankovich cycles are only contributing to warming due to increased CO2 in the atmosphere since the plyocene fluctuating between 180 -200ppm maintaining a relatively gentle warming period over 10-16k years. A niche to develop agriculture.

The issue is the doubling of CO2 over a 300 year period.

He is peer reviewed, which mean his paper has been checked for errors.

Dr Paul Beckwith, Oceanographer, climate scientist, Dr Peter Carter MD, IPCC Reviewer. Highly qualified people.

He talks about feedbacks and tipping points. An Arctiv and Antarctic sea ice shrinkage is a crossed tipping point.

Hansen wrote the peer reviewed paper on aerosol masking.

If you are interested I can find all the papers. But Paul Beckwith does an excellent channel on YouTube, he is very personable.and talks science, analyses new peer reviewed papers.

His latest is excellent.

Im sorry if its depressing
I'm only going to respond to questions On this thread from now on.

 

[HillBill]

Ok, so a question for you. If Co2 causes the warming we are experiencing, how do you explain the Holocene optimum period, the roman warm period, and the medieval warm period, all of which were warmer than or equal to modern times, when you yourself state the Co2 levels were half then of what we have today? And how would you explain the 550 year period, known as the little ice age from 1300ce to 1850ce, when temps were a fair bit lower, but Co2 levels were similar to the warm periods mentioned above?

Here is a summary of the studies done establishing those periods in historical climate data, pre the Mann hockey stick.

https://est.ufba.br/sites/est.ufba.br/files/kim/medievalwarmperiod.pdf

Public Email

le.utah.gov

The effect of a Holocene climatic optimum on the evolution of the Greenland ice sheet during the last 10 kyr | Journal of Glaciology | Cambridge Core

The effect of a Holocene climatic optimum on the evolution of the Greenland ice sheet during the last 10 kyr - Volume 64 Issue 245

www.cambridge.org

Little Ice Age (LIA)

Little Ice Age (LIA), climate interval that occurred from the early 14th century through the mid-19th century, when mountain glaciers expanded at several locations, including the European Alps, New Zealand, Alaska, and the southern Andes, and mean annual temperatures across the Northern Hemisphere

www.britannica.com

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Ok, so a question for you. If Co2 causes the warming we are experiencing, how do you explain the Holocene optimum period, the roman warm period, and the medieval warm period, all of which were warmer than or equal to modern times, when you yourself state the Co2 levels were half then of what we have today? And how would you explain the 550 year period, known as the little ice age from 1300ce to 1850ce, when temps were a fair bit lower, but Co2 levels were similar to the warm periods mentioned above?

Those periods you mention were regional phenomena & not global. The Roman Warm Period was concentrated around the Mediterranean & the temperatures were only a degree or two warmer than today's average temps. Likewise the 'Mini Ice Age' mainly concerned the North Atlantic Region.
The causes of past climatic phenomena are not responsible for the current rise in global temperatures.

 

[HillBill]

Those periods you mention were regional phenomena & not global. The Roman Warm Period was concentrated around the Mediterranean & the temperatures were only a degree or two warmer than today's average temps. Likewise the 'Mini Ice Age' mainly concerned the North Atlantic Region.
The causes of past climatic phenomena are not responsible for the current rise in global temperatures.

Please read the links i put up, the medieval warm period was global. The little ice age was global. The Roman warm period affected Britain, as grapes were first grown here at that time. Solar cycles do not have regional affects.

The Eddy solar cycle (circa 1000 years) correlates to the dates of each. At maximum during the roman period, at min during the dark ages, max at medieval period, min during little ice age, and rising towards its maximum now. 500 years between each peak and trough, 1000 years between each peak.

Roman warm period peaked 100ce, medieval peaked 1100ce, modern period will peak around 2100.

Dark age cold period bottomed out around 600ce, little ice age bottomed out around 1600ce.

 

[ManFriday4]

Solar variation caused the the mid Holocene warm periods, .& no one is disputing whether these occurred or not.

The reason it was possible for the Romans to grow grapes in Southern England was primarily due to the "Mild Climate" produced by the Gulf Stream.

It was only possible to grow certain varieties of grape. For example the Sytah grape failed dismally due tonits need for hot arid conditions, but Riesling ancestor varieties did well on South facing slopes..

However though the heating was global, it had little effect on polar regions, glaciers and seasonal ice distribution.

Today's heating is meltingbthe world's glaciers & year on year the Arctic Sea ice is decreasing & this caused be CO2 & CH4 released through oil extraction & burning fossil fuels.


Solar variations are no longer responsible for warming the earth alone.

 

[ManFriday4]

Is the Sun causing Global warming?

"One of the “smoking guns” that tells us the Sun is not causing global warming comes from looking at the amount of solar energy that hits the top of the atmosphere. Since 1978, scientists have been tracking this using sensors on satellites, which tell us that there has been no upward trend in the amount of solar energy reaching our planet.

A second smoking gun is that if the Sun were responsible for global warming, we would expect to see warming throughout all layers of the atmosphere, from the surface to the upper atmosphere (stratosphere). But what we actually see is warming at the surface and cooling in the stratosphere. This is consistent with the warming being caused by a buildup of heat-trapping gases near Earth's surface, and not by the Sun getting “hotter.”

Is the Sun causing global warming?

No. The Sun can influence the Earth’s climate, but it isn’t responsible for the warming trend we’ve seen over the past few decades.

climate.nasa.gov

Gasses associated with Global warming.

The Causes of Climate Change

Most climate scientists agree the main cause of the current global warming trend is human expansion of the "greenhouse effect" — warming that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space.

climate.nasa.gov

Sun's role in climate change

What Is the Sun's Role in Climate Change? – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

 

[nigelp]

Battle of the hyperlinks!

 

[ManFriday4]

Battle of the hyperlinks!

Unfortunately, opinions don't cut it when it comes to science.

I find it rather hilarious that preppers are prepping for nuclear war- which will change the climate.

But not one single UK prepper youtube channel talks about how we survive the currently changing climate and some people on here think that the climate related links on here are spam. Perhaps they should report my posts.

@Le Loup asked a question about Climate Change & the response he got was to be shouted down.

And I get the same response.

Suggesting that this is because of social media is a very poor excuse for a group which aparently concentrates on survival skills.

Actually the reason people behave like this is to shut down conversation which make them uncomfortable & challenge their world view. For the people of Lahaina, Hawaii- climate change destroyed their town & the same is true for the 20,000 people living in the Northewst Territory, Canada.

So tell us survival experts how do we survive the collapse of agriculture & seeds not germinating due to heat, droughts Plpluvial rainstorms, oversized hail? This is an expert forum?

There are some very skilled people here.