bushcrafters or gear geeks?
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gear geek.....kit monster......kit freak......Yup all of them.
I have all the gear and no idea !!!!!!!
Greg
I have all the gear and no idea !!!!!!!
Greg
There was a full moon last night
Some people are happy with a lada, some feel the need to have a huge BMW, others save up for a classic Morgan.
Me, I'd love a 1930 Alvis shooting brake, but am forced to settle for a 12 year old laguna.
Like cars, as with 'bushcraft' You buy what you can and 'dream about the rest'
Yeah, and it's beautiful out
I was working in the garden late last night (I had been playing with my fire poi ) and the Moon was so high and bright. Easy see why it used to be called the poor man's lantern.
cheers,
Toddy
I was working in the garden late last night (I had been playing with my fire poi
) and the Moon was so high and bright. Easy see why it used to be called the poor man's lantern. cheers,
Toddy
There's an easy solution to not enjoying all the great kit that's available, get off the internet and walk off into the woods naked. While it's perfectly feasible to survive it personally I'd rather be comfortable and have something to do while I'm out there besides surviving the experience.
If you want to get really down to basics, then the only time I do 'Bushcraft', is when someone asks me what I do, and I can't be bothered to give them the long answer. People instantly get a flavour of what you do because they've seen Ray on telly.
I can't actually define what I do. I might start by walking my dogs, which turns into foraging, then supper on the beach etc. While another time we might have organised a moot, so setting up shelters, lugging around Dutch ovens etc.
My point it, that I would characterise both activities as 'Bushcraft', and yet the kit required is a world apart in both examples. You can't say what is right or wrong kit, and unless you do all your 'Bushcraft' in the nude (I only do that on a Tuesday nowadays), then you need at least some kit! So at what point does it become excessive? That surely is a personal decision.
Also, you mustn't forget that people like nice things human nature tends us towards decoration and embellishment. At what point does that become extravagance?
You should be open to the possibilities of something being created, that does the job you need it to do, better than your current kit. How will we ever get an unbiased opinion of these things (especially in this current world of marketing and spin), unless our members are free to discuss pros and cons without repercussions.
We all have strong opinions about the kit we use, after all we've come to the conclusion that our own kit is 'best' from personal experience. Great, explain why it works for you, give pros and cons, and allow others an insight into your gear. They may find something they really like, which they wouldn't have known about without your gear review. However, be open to others opinions about their gear, even if it's not for you, it's still their 'best' option and may well suit someone else.
Time to get off my soap box Sorry for the rant, but lets all live and let live. After all, it's our differences that make us interesting
I can't actually define what I do. I might start by walking my dogs, which turns into foraging, then supper on the beach etc. While another time we might have organised a moot, so setting up shelters, lugging around Dutch ovens etc.
My point it, that I would characterise both activities as 'Bushcraft', and yet the kit required is a world apart in both examples. You can't say what is right or wrong kit, and unless you do all your 'Bushcraft' in the nude (I only do that on a Tuesday nowadays), then you need at least some kit! So at what point does it become excessive? That surely is a personal decision.
Also, you mustn't forget that people like nice things
human nature tends us towards decoration and embellishment. At what point does that become extravagance?You should be open to the possibilities of something being created, that does the job you need it to do, better than your current kit. How will we ever get an unbiased opinion of these things (especially in this current world of marketing and spin), unless our members are free to discuss pros and cons without repercussions.
We all have strong opinions about the kit we use, after all we've come to the conclusion that our own kit is 'best' from personal experience. Great, explain why it works for you, give pros and cons, and allow others an insight into your gear. They may find something they really like, which they wouldn't have known about without your gear review. However, be open to others opinions about their gear, even if it's not for you, it's still their 'best' option and may well suit someone else.
Time to get off my soap box
Sorry for the rant, but lets all live and let live. After all, it's our differences that make us interesting 
I think the best thing to do Peter is not to bother reading the kit chatter sections if you see them as tiring. Individuals put into a hobby what they want, if that's researching and discussing the latest gadget or piece of outdoor wear then I don't see the problem. It's the same right across the board with any hobby or pastime, the internet and forums like this one has just made the resources easier to share.
If this is another of those "anti-elitism my £5 coat is as good as your £400 coat" then it's been done to death.
If this is another of those "anti-elitism my £5 coat is as good as your £400 coat" then it's been done to death.
The way i see it, you must first define bushcraft before any conclusions can be made. Bushcraft is not an activity in itself, but skills and knowledge that accompany many activities.
For example, i would class myself as a hiker/camper/hunter. None of these ARE bushcraft yet all encompass aspects OF bushcraft. If i am hiking and camping then the bushcraft i will use is campcraft more than anything. But the gear i will have is for hinking and camping in the conditions of the time.
If i am hunting then i go dressed as a hunter carring hunting kit. The bushcraft part is the skills of tracking/animal id/plant id (habitat indicatoirs) butchery, field cooking hide/shelter building etc. Yet the purpose of the outing is hunting.
Bushcraft like i say is skills and knowledge that accompany other defined activities nothing more. As such carry no uniform or specific gear. An axe is an axe, a tool for cutting wood, not a bushcraft tool though it is used IN bushcraft, same with a knife, clothing etc.
Anyone who goes out TO bushcraft is missing the point of it. It is not an activity in itself. As said earlier it used to be called survival. How many here would have gone out surviving? or survivaling whatever you want to call it? Well you wouldn't would you. You would be going camping or something similar.
The amount of people who watch Ray mears and listen to his words, without ever hearing what he is saying is scary.
For example, i would class myself as a hiker/camper/hunter. None of these ARE bushcraft yet all encompass aspects OF bushcraft. If i am hiking and camping then the bushcraft i will use is campcraft more than anything. But the gear i will have is for hinking and camping in the conditions of the time.
If i am hunting then i go dressed as a hunter carring hunting kit. The bushcraft part is the skills of tracking/animal id/plant id (habitat indicatoirs) butchery, field cooking hide/shelter building etc. Yet the purpose of the outing is hunting.
Bushcraft like i say is skills and knowledge that accompany other defined activities nothing more. As such carry no uniform or specific gear. An axe is an axe, a tool for cutting wood, not a bushcraft tool though it is used IN bushcraft, same with a knife, clothing etc.
Anyone who goes out TO bushcraft is missing the point of it. It is not an activity in itself. As said earlier it used to be called survival. How many here would have gone out surviving? or survivaling whatever you want to call it? Well you wouldn't would you. You would be going camping or something similar.
The amount of people who watch Ray mears and listen to his words, without ever hearing what he is saying is scary.
ok this will be my last post on this thread because i fear people are not taking me seriously or are taking offence to my opinions.
the point im trying to make is that bushcraft is about skills, knowledge and many other things but imo equipment is not one of them. yes you can have equipment, i wouldnt like to be without a knife or sleeping bag. but is having gear bushcraft? no. its what you do with the gear or better still what you can do without it.
as for what i said about bushcraft replaces equipment i will stand by this. think of native peoples who have been given access to modern equipment, tents, lighters, snow mobiles, guns etc. as they are given this easier way of life they have no need for the old ways so knowledge is lost. for me bushcraft is to go from modern day living back to the old ways. I like to learn and to explore the old ways and to have freedom and self reliance which they give. For me buying high tech gear is just taking another step back.
also i just want to outline that there is nothing wrong with being gear geeks. iv also gone into the woods with a few mates, a tent, gas stove, a few beers and some music. i call it camping, not bushcraft. there's nothing wrong with that either.
Pete
the point im trying to make is that bushcraft is about skills, knowledge and many other things but imo equipment is not one of them. yes you can have equipment, i wouldnt like to be without a knife or sleeping bag. but is having gear bushcraft? no. its what you do with the gear or better still what you can do without it.
as for what i said about bushcraft replaces equipment i will stand by this. think of native peoples who have been given access to modern equipment, tents, lighters, snow mobiles, guns etc. as they are given this easier way of life they have no need for the old ways so knowledge is lost. for me bushcraft is to go from modern day living back to the old ways. I like to learn and to explore the old ways and to have freedom and self reliance which they give. For me buying high tech gear is just taking another step back.
also i just want to outline that there is nothing wrong with being gear geeks. iv also gone into the woods with a few mates, a tent, gas stove, a few beers and some music. i call it camping, not bushcraft. there's nothing wrong with that either.
Pete
Товарищ спасибо, имел, наблюдают, что участок, который Вы поднимаете, я интересую gorka D (холм, но только пальто, которое я пошлю электронной почте им.
все лучшее
товарищ
, но только пальто, которое я пошлю электронной почте им.все лучшее
товарищ
Its an English speaking site mate, please use English.
Товарищ спасибо, имел, наблюдают, что участок, который Вы поднимаете, я интересую gorka D (холм
все лучшее
товарищ
Ah internet translator
"Comrade of thanks, had, observe, that a site which you lift, I interest gorka D (hill), but only a coat which I shall send e-mail to them.
All best
Comrade"
Maybe using the old goretex vs ventile example was a bad footing to start on then. The way I interpreted the OP was that you were having a dig at folk spending money on expensive gear, regardless of what skills they were practising. I class myself as wild camper who likes to play at bushcrafting, when I see some of the craft work and skills shown by some of the folk on here it makes me realise there's so much more to learn.
But at the same time if I want to spend x amount of pounds on decent outerlayer clothing, which I've chosen on the recomendation of others, does that make me soft ?
Making do with less kit is a valid point but I still reckon rejecting a piece of kit as 'too modern' is meaningless. Presumably your knife is made of steel and your sleeping bag at least partly of synthetic fabrics? Where would you draw that line? Anything invented in the last decade? Century? Millennium?
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Guest
It seems that Pete's original point is being overlooked. If I am interpreting him correctly, he seems to be saying that you do not need to spend vast sums of money to enjoy an outdoor life, whatever title is given to the activity. By and large I would agree with him.
However, depending upon the activity, the more exteme the activity, by and large, the more expensive the equipment. For example who would dream of climbing in the Himalayas wearing tweeds as worn by Mallory when modern clothing is available, albeit at a high cost. Clearly there is a cost associated with every activity.
Unfortunately marketing forces will always convince people that spending vast sums of cash will make them more proficient at their chosen activity, witness the number of holidaymakers with expensive cameras taking less than average snapshots. Similarly not too many years ago there was a trend in wearing Barbour jackets, ot least in my neck of the woods. Why did office workers need waxed cotton jackets? Purely fashion.
I feel it is the same with bushcraft. At present RM (Woodlore) and BG are very marketable brands but this will not last for ever. Once the current "craze" is replaced by something else then we can revert to being campers, ramblers climbers or whatever and buy the equipment we need without being labelled.
The main point is, IMO, that there is nothing wrong in buying expensive gear, the fault lies with companies or individuals promoting the sale of items as "essential" when we all know that we can manage perfectly well without them.
However, depending upon the activity, the more exteme the activity, by and large, the more expensive the equipment. For example who would dream of climbing in the Himalayas wearing tweeds as worn by Mallory when modern clothing is available, albeit at a high cost. Clearly there is a cost associated with every activity.
Unfortunately marketing forces will always convince people that spending vast sums of cash will make them more proficient at their chosen activity, witness the number of holidaymakers with expensive cameras taking less than average snapshots. Similarly not too many years ago there was a trend in wearing Barbour jackets, ot least in my neck of the woods. Why did office workers need waxed cotton jackets? Purely fashion.
I feel it is the same with bushcraft. At present RM (Woodlore) and BG are very marketable brands but this will not last for ever. Once the current "craze" is replaced by something else then we can revert to being campers, ramblers climbers or whatever and buy the equipment we need without being labelled.
The main point is, IMO, that there is nothing wrong in buying expensive gear, the fault lies with companies or individuals promoting the sale of items as "essential" when we all know that we can manage perfectly well without them.
Yes, that's EXACTLY the point - where do you draw the line at what is 'modern'?
There'll still be oneupmanship: 'Oh, you don't use anything invented after the 1750's, do you? Me? Well, I draw the line at the Norman invasion...'
Ad infinitum.
Sorry Pete, but your clarification STILL displays snobbery and shortsightedness. You have a point, but it's a hollow one and doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Your own example betrays your argument - 'native peoples' using modern technology when they get it. Who are you to deny that off them, and their chance to make their lives easier? Doesn't it fit the 'noble savage' stereotype you've created for yourself?
You repeatedly miss the point. Hill Bill explained it very well - bushcraft is NOT a pasttime, it's a set of skills you bring to a situation as they are needed.
Anyway you look at it, equipment IS a central part of 'bushcrafting'. When I watch Ray in Africa, Australia or South America, the 'native peoples' ALL use whatever equipment they can. All that seems to limit them is not an idealised agrarian or Edenic lifestyle, but the technological base they are subject to. You don't seem to have realised that. Instead, you patronise them.
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