bushcrafters or gear geeks?

[Grooveski]

I'm always curious how the people who accuse others of being gear geeks, cybercrafters or [insert your putdown of choice] actualy know what everyone else is doing?

For instance I punched the "find all posts by peter_t" button expecting to learn how to do things properly but other than a couple of beach forages and a mushroom picking session it looked just like your average selection of banter and gear blethering(heavy on the tree surgery talk - as you'd expect from a tree surgeon).

Where do folk come up with these wild generizations? It's like the "People in the UK...." arguments that just presume that we're all little clones rolling off a production line with the same thoughts, habits and knowledge base. Don't know if the sweary filter allows the word ******** but that's what it is.
I'm a scotsman therefore I obviously know more about bagpipes, haggis and types of rain than all you non-scotsmen - aye right.

Peter, you obviously have your opinions and have worded them often enough.....

all the effort he put into that when he could have just snapped it lol some people buy stuf just for the sake of useing it

imo there are way too many sheep in bushcraft, for example gransfors axes. having the best kit does not make you good at bushcraft. 'all the gear, no idea' i would like to see more variety instead of...

i try to go by the bushcraft saying 'the more you know the less you carry'
i do like to play with the latest kit but it is unnecessary and for me it just defeats the object of bushcraft.

does make me laugh how ignorant people are lol...

......but if you're basing them on what you read on the forum here please bear in mind that not everything that goes on the real world makes in onto these pages(just as all your real bushcrafting hasn't made it on).

You summed it up well on the "Bushcraft in the UK is a joke" thread.

is anybody else getting a bit sick and depressed with this thread now?

pete

If you felt that way why did you start another?

A' ra best,
Josh
(camper)

 

[Grooveski]

p.s. sorry if I come across as being annoyed but all these 'big yourself up by putting others down' are the one thing that puts me off the forum.
I agree with the sentiment of the opening post, sure there are more folk out there camping than doing proper bushcraft but what of it? The two are linked surely?

One of these days someone will start a discussion on the links between camping and bushcraft and do it without slagging folk off. It'll probably be an interesting thread.

 

[rawshak]

There's a lot of talk about doing bushcraft properly...

..Could someone please define for me EXACTLY what constitutes 'bushcraft', because I sure as hell can't define it?

 

[Spikey DaPikey]

Is it still a full moon ?

 

[John Fenna]

There's a lot of talk about doing bushcraft properly...

..Could someone please define for me EXACTLY what constitutes 'bushcraft', because I sure as hell can't define it?

Easy!
"Bushcraft" - a word often used to describe any (or all) ways of enjoying being outdoors (or indoors) involved (even just as a spectator) in any (or all) of the ways of wasting time/reconecting with the planet/having fun/meeting interesting people/learning crafts/polishing skills/ignoring fools (and/or much else) in a way that makes you happy and does not upset too many other people...

Sorted!

 

[John Fenna]

Is it still a full moon ?

Tonight mate!

 

[Paul_B]

Someone mentioned Mallory and his gear. I would like to point out the the Uni. of Leeds performance textile department in association with the national mountaineering centre and others actually researched and tested recovered clothing and gear from that ill-fated ascent of Everest. The conclusion was that the items those two wore were as good as modern gear and in some cases actually out-performed the latest expedition gear used on Everest and other greater range mountains today. They even had oxygen systems that were actually quite advanced for their times and was similar in the way they worked as today's kit (albeit heavier and not as good).

Just thought I'd put that out there as old fashioned kit can be as good as the latest versions as demonstrated by the resurgence of merino wool.

AS far as expensive kit goes up to a point more money gets you more comfort. I qualify that by saying the more you know about clothing and gear and your environment it is used in the less of it you need. This is kind of what Peter seems to be saying and it is correct but with the proviso that a certain level of expense does make your activities better. Just like knowledge in bushcraft allows you to do more with less the same is true with knowledge of clothing, gear and equipment. I am more of a backpacking / hillwalking / easy mountaineering background than bushcraft so gear and clothing is more a part of the activity. This means I have the fancy whatnots so would just use them in bushcraft.

 

[MartinK9]

Tonight mate!

I thought I felt OK Noooooooooooooooooooooooow



I'll get my coat...:sulkoff:

 

[rawshak]

Easy!
"Bushcraft" - a word often used to describe any (or all) ways of enjoying being outdoors (or indoors) involved (even just as a spectator) in any (or all) of the ways of wasting time/reconecting with the planet/having fun/meeting interesting people/learning crafts/polishing skills/ignoring fools (and/or much else) in a way that makes you happy and does not upset too many other people...

Sorted!

I think you've just defined the word 'life' John lol

I wonder what the appropriate kit for that is lol

 

[Paul_B]

One other comment then I'll leave you in peace. Bushcraft is kind of a commercial or made up concept these days IMHO. A term favoured by Ray Mears and those "survival" schools. It was once fashionable to call it survival IIRC. Like in Lofty's tv programme. IMHO the only bushcraft done is that by the likes of the hadza bushmen who actually live by their skills. Anything done by us westerners is effectively a hobby. As far as the whittling of a spoon or a chopping board as demonstrated in Ray Mears programmes is kind of just woodcraft. The making of bone and wood handles for knives is a craft it is not bushcraft in my eyes. So in some ways the OP (Peter) is just using woodlandskills.

Does this make sense to you? I'm just trying to say bushcraft is about old skills used to live by. Whilst you can practise these skills you are not living them and as a result it is just a hobby. Bushcraft is a life. Judging by some of the tag lines after peoples' comments some others must agree with this as they have said it themselves. Comments such as "Bushcraft is a way of life". Unless I am apportioning to much to those comments and their meanings.

 

[Paul_B]

Having said that I intend to get a mora knife when can get around to it. Not because I need it but because it is a new bright and shiny. I am that gear freak. I am also going to get a brand new softshell for walking in the hills (and around Ambleside). A sucker for marketing and "the latest thing". What is wrong with me? I have few vices but outdoor related gear is one of them (pay packet permitting).

 

[Melonfish]

hope its clear tonight, see about getting my eldest out with his telescope and get some good sights of the moon.

 

[Tadpole]

One other comment then I'll leave you in peace. Bushcraft is kind of a commercial or made up concept these days IMHO. A term favoured by Ray Mears and those "survival" schools. It was once fashionable to call it survival IIRC. Like in Lofty's tv programme. IMHO the only bushcraft done is that by the likes of the hadza bushmen who actually live by their skills. Anything done by us westerners is effectively a hobby. As far as the whittling of a spoon or a chopping board as demonstrated in Ray Mears programmes is kind of just woodcraft. The making of bone and wood handles for knives is a craft it is not bushcraft in my eyes. So in some ways the OP (Peter) is just using woodlandskills.

Does this make sense to you? I'm just trying to say bushcraft is about old skills used to live by. Whilst you can practise these skills you are not living them and as a result it is just a hobby. Bushcraft is a life. Judging by some of the tag lines after peoples' comments some others must agree with this as they have said it themselves. Comments such as "Bushcraft is a way of life". Unless I am apportioning to much to those comments and their meanings.

I’m sorry but this comes across as “My bushcraft is better than yours”. What you’re effectively saying is “unless you do it by the rules [in this case rules you have laid down,] then you’re not doing it right”

Bush craft is what ever [you] want it to be. Carve a spoon next to your caravan from wood foraged of the beach, with a knife made from a file, and if that is bushcraft to you, then you’re a bushcrafter, and no one as the right to tell you different.

I don’t bushcraft, I camp but I do some foraging and some carving and wood craft and food craft and knot craft and axe craft and track craft, and… well you get the picture.

There is nothing in the definition of bushcraft that says you have to live it 100% of the time, or for any proportion of the time, for were it the case your Hadza, the remaining native American, first nation Canadian, aboriginal Australian, or the Sami et al would all, by the nature of none of them living by bushcraft 100% of the time would all be just hobbyist and campers like the rest of us.

 

[rik_uk3]

As most people here seem to only camp in the woods, I think woodcraft would be a better term than bushcraft, fits in with the spoon making etc and bear in mind we don't live in the bush?

 

[Neumo]

It's interesting that in the US there are groups that are into primative living skills, whereas over here it seems to be an obsession of some people that you can only be a proper bushcrafter if you go out with minimal kit that does not cost a lot. I think they are secret BG fans.... It is of course a hobby, in the sense that most of us, I would imagine, dont do it to survive every day but for me bushcraft is more like a philosopy or lifestyle choice, as it makes you think differently about lots of things in lfe that dont involve a tarp near a campfire.

At the end of the day it is what you can do with a knife, not how much it costs, that counts.

I think the point about camping is a fair one, except that I would imagine that most of us are there to practice skills, meet likeminded people etc.. rather than just stay in a tent over night drinking beer (which is not unenjoyable), so it's more than just camping if you are doing it right. Just a few thoughts.

 

[Tengu]

Woodcraft is an older and more established word

 

[Wayland]

I've said many times before, "I'm not a bushcrafter."

I don't go "bushcrafting," I just live my life and that includes many of the skills that people often describe as "bushcrafting."

The only time I use the term is as a descriptive for people that don't get what it is that I do. It's useful because they have seen bushcrafting on TV and these days that is what makes it "real" for most people.

 

[John Fenna]

I AM a "Bushcrafter"!
But only in that I am a member of Bushcraft UK and try to learn as many of the skills associated with Bushcraft (see my previous definition) as possible.
I earn my living (or part of it) by way of some of these crafts, keep my home fire burning by others and even feed myself (to a small degree) with yet others.
Yes my clothes and tools are not all hand made from hides I cured/metal I forged myself but are modern and mass produced - just like the aboriginal folk in RMs progs...but I am working on that too.
In the meanwhile I like to discus the pros and cons of what is out there to buy and how my dosh will be best spent with regard to comfort, efficiency, impact on the planet and how good I look with or in my purchases - and I earn more of my income by doing that too!
If this offends anyone then....
Oh, that moon is big tonight!

 

[Martyn]

Here's an interesting question. Given all the ultra-modern, synthetic gucci kit that he carries (and sells), is Ray Mears a bushcrafter?

Personally, I think we are all just campers. I fail to see how someone who sleeps in a nylon tarp, in a synthetic sleeping bag, who uses a steel knife to light a fire by scraping it on a complex alloy rod is in any way at all a bushcrafter. There isn't a single aspect of any of that which can be called bushcraft by any accepted sense, yet that's what many people here do. But more importantly, I think the word "bushcraft" itself, has become a nonesense term, with no real meaningful definition at all.

I read one quote recently that made me smile...

"Bushcraft is a sort of bizarre "Live Action Role Playing Game" that the British do for fun."

How true. Some even take their LARPing so seriously, that they become almost religious zealots about what should and should not be done. There are rules and a uniform and everything.

For me, "camping" is a much less pretentious term, more honest and more open. It also means you dont have to obey the rules or wear the uniform. There is no church of camping, no gods of camping and it doesnt matter if you get it a bit wrong, or wear the wrong thing. Camping will endure forever, but I cant help thinking "bushcrafting" is something of a fad.

But if you want your head to be in that place and uttering the mantra "just get out there and do some 'shrafting" makes your pulse quicken or makes you feel good, then knock yourself out. But whatever your definition, however your head is balanced, ...please, dont quote the rulebook to me. What I do in my time, how I spend my money, is my choice, my business and my prerogative.

 

[durulz]

For me, "camping" is a much less pretentious term, more honest and more open. It also means you dont have to obey the rules or wear the uniform. There is no church of camping, no gods of camping and it doesnt matter if you get it a bit wrong, or wear the wrong thing. Camping will endure forever, but I cant help thinking "bushcrafting" is something of a fad.

Yup, absolutely. Buy that man a drink on me.
I do earnestly believe the whole 'bushcraft' movement is part of an eco-zeit geist. It will fade. But the whole 'camping out for the night' ethos will stay as perennial as it's ever been.
Among fellow 'bushcrafters' I (we) describe ourselves as 'campers'. We say things such as,'fancy a camp out this weekend?' Among other campers, we describe ourselves as 'wild campers', because that is exactly what we are. Among those who aren't into the whole camping thing we call ourselves 'bushcrafters' because they've seen Ray and that'll give them a much better idea of the camping we do rather than hitch up at a Caravan Club site with a bright orange family tent (which, incidentally, I think is absolutely great - it's a real adventure for kids to be somewhere other than the home and street they live on).
I don't care - call me a camper (sneer at me for being one), call me a 'bushcrafter' (a term the romantic part of me likes), call me whatever. Still not sure how someone in the UK can think of their 'bushcrafting' activities as anything other then leisure and pleasure time - play, if you like. And at that point you lose any claim to worthiness and superiority.