Bison Bushcraft Boot or any other thin-soled walking boots.

[forestwalker]

Is this site in English as well? Looked for the translate button but to no avail.

There is a small UKGBaNI flag in top:
http://www.kero.se/en/

Good looking boots. With a flat sole they could be perfect if waterproof. Want to know more!

They are a fairly well made leather boot. Once I have a pair I'll report back. I suspect that if more then an occational order for a pair with no heel comes in from the UK they will scratch their heads a wee bit up in Pajala. As to waterproofness; it is a leather boot, so the treatment is the key here, but with proper socks there should nothing in UK winter that they could not manage (ok, the Nokian wellie Matin K. linked to is even more ideal to your soggy climate, but that one has a heel even if it is fairly flexible for being a winter wellie).

 

[Dreadhead]

How waterproof were the vileys with the leather sole (I assume that is the 'tough leather sole that can be added for an extra fee')? I really want to ditch my clumpy hiking boots but do love their waterproofness, but not their discomfort. Would you buy another brand or are they the most comfortable shoes you've worn for hiking?

The sole is nae the added 'tough' sole just a very thin leather sole that i just glue thick leather ontae as an easy fix. as for waterproof they are thin leather so they can only withstand so much but im sure a little treatment would buff them up to better standards however due tae the way they are made tis easy for water tae leak in as the shoe splits right down both sides for comfort (cant find picture to elaborate). however they are the comfiest shoes iv ever worn and will continue tae buy more as im nae too bothered about waterproofing. dont mind wet feet as long as they are comfy

I think those kero shoes with a flat sole seems like a good idea would love a pair myself but already spent too much on footwear (and bloody import tax) grumble grumble

 

[darrenleroy]

Just to add to the Bison shoe debate; I've had mine for 3 years. I wear them from spring until autumn every year. I literally soak them in dubbin over winter and they are extermely waterproof. They are comfy to wear and great to walk quietly around the woods.
I have the vibram sole version and they have good grip although Roger had to re-affix the sole which started to come away in a couple of places.
You should be aware that the flat soles will stretch the achilles tendon so initially it will feel strange and you may feel you are getting fatigued. I am used to them so can walk a fair distance without any bother although I wouldn't use them for hard-core hiking - but then they're not designed for that.
I've got a couple of surface cuts on the uppers but they are robust enough not to go through the whole of the leather. I've had Rogues but they are quite heavy. Its the Bison's every time for me.

Hi Pablo, why would you refrain from wearing these in the winter and for long hikes?

 

[darrenleroy]

I have compromised with my Brashers, which I have just bought to trial out for a fortnight, I have just played around with the insoles, replacing the narrow insoles that came with the shoe with my wide vivo barefoot insoles plus half another insole just fitted into the toe area to raise it up so that it feels more "flat". But I don't think this will be satisfactory enough for me and I think they will be going back to the shop.

Since going 'barefoot' my feet have grown one size and gone from the thinnest width measurement to the second to widest, so it is really important that I get that spread out toe feeling - normal shoes just feel too constricting.

To be quite honest with you I prefer the slightly thicker sole when it is wet as it gives me more grip and stops me from slipping on hills and I love the strong leather for protection against falling logs whilst chopping wood etc. but I cannot handle the heel that most hiking boots have as standard, even if it is just a few mms - plus the stiffness of the soles mean that all ground feel is lost and I would never want to lose the feeling one gets with VFF's - it just makes you so much more aware of everything underfoot, which I think is so important.

Tawnyhare, I have found these online...

http://www.jamesandjames.com/products/marlow/m378gb.htm

These are classic desert boots but in leather rather than suede. I already have a suede pair which are tried and tested for comfort, although they are the five eyelet version which is a slightly different shape around the toe:

http://www.jamesandjames.com/products/marlow/m468ts.htmQ

I can't find the five eyelet ones in a leather but I think I'm going to purchase the waxy leather version from James and James all the same. It's only £30 which could be money well spent. I will soak them in dubbin overnight and then test them in a bucket of water for seepage. They don't come with a sewn in tongue which would be beneficial in waterproofing but I think they may be a good compromise on the Bison Boots which are a bit pricey for my purse.

There is a heel on the Roamers but it is fairly minimal and I will see if it is possible to grind or cut it down by a centimetre or so to create more of a flat shoe.

If the leather version is as comfy as my other pair I will seriously consider using them on my Pennine Way odyssey at the end of August.

Opinions please...

 

[treadlightly]

Tawnyhare, I have found these online...

http://www.jamesandjames.com/products/marlow/m378gb.htm

These are classic desert boots but in leather rather than suede. I already have a suede pair which are tried and tested for comfort, although they are the five eyelet version which is a slightly different shape around the toe:

http://www.jamesandjames.com/products/marlow/m468ts.htmQ

I can't find the five eyelet ones in a leather but I think I'm going to purchase the waxy leather version from James and James all the same. It's only £30 which could be money well spent. I will soak them in dubbin overnight and then test them in a bucket of water for seepage. They don't come with a sewn in tongue which would be beneficial in waterproofing but I think they may be a good compromise on the Bison Boots which are a bit pricey for my purse.

There is a heel on the Roamers but it is fairly minimal and I will see if it is possible to grind or cut it down by a centimetre or so to create more of a flat shoe.

If the leather version is as comfy as my other pair I will seriously consider using them on my Pennine Way odyssey at the end of August.

Opinions please...

Hmm, interesting alternative. The oiled leather should be reasonably water resistant. A few things concern me - the weight of the boots (wonder what it is), the grip as it does not show the underside and that heel..

 

[darrenleroy]

TL, the sole is made of crepe rubber and is not indented/ridged in anyway. It becomes slippery underfoot when in contact with wet smooth objects like glass. Would probably be similar in mud if going downhill.

The weight is 320 grammes per individual shoe.

 

[treadlightly]

TL, the sole is made of crepe rubber and is not indented/ridged in anyway. It becomes slippery underfoot when in contact with wet smooth objects like glass. Would probably be similar in mud if going downhill.

The weight is 320 grammes per individual shoe.

Which makes them much lighter than the BB boots which are 900g per pair of size 10's.

 

[darrenleroy]

Granted mine are only size 6 so they will be lighter, and I think the leather versions of mine would be heavier than suede, but still, they're pretty light I imagine.

 

[darrenleroy]

Got back from walking in the Pennines last week. I spent a lot of my time trudging through wet boggy ground and the topic of footwear was continuously on my mind.

I started out on day one with a pair of running trainers; the benefits were lightness, but the downside was the lack of stability and water permeability. I went over on my ankle at least three times and my feet were soaked at the end of the day. If I were doing a challenge walk or run, something like the Pennine Three Peaks challenge I would consider wearing a pair of fell running-style shoes. But for long hikes when dryness and stability and comfort are paramount I would rule these out.

The next day I moved on to my cheap but comfy Karrimor boots. I paid £35 for them about 18 months ago from Sports Direct. I've worn them on at least 250 days so I know they fit and don't cause blisters. For work I wear them loose and sloppy but on the trail I wore a pair of sports socks and an extra pair of cotton thin socks for a snugger fit to stop my foot moving around so much inside the boot. I would start the day with them loosely laced and after walking a mile or so retie the laces a bit tighter. Unfortunately I went overboard with the tightening and bruised the outside of my right leg just above the ankle. This caused much pain for the rest of the journey. I had to leave my last two eyes unlaced to relieve the pain which allowed mud and water splashes to dribble down inside my boots and for seeds from plants to work their way under my foot and aggravate it (think princess and the pea). I don't know what the answer is to this save wearing a pair of gaiters or those cool socks with the cuff that are sold at RV Ops.

Apart from the ingress over the top the boots were waterproof. I applied some dubbin each morning to aid with water repellency.

Because I'd worn my boots so much over the last 18 months the soles had almost worn away on the ball of the foot. This made walking down through boggy fells a nightmare as the slick sole reacted with the slick mud to create perfect skidding conditions. Three times I slipped and once I landed on my ****. It could have been worse with a sprained or broken joint or bone. New soles should have been purchased beforehand.

In reflection and further to my points made on earlier posts in this thread I have come to the conclusion that is no wonder boot, but there are boots and shoes that are suitable for differing climates and conditions. I mentioned wanting to wear a simple desert style boot for the journey. In retrospect I think this wouldn't work in the conditions. Looking at the pictures on the pub walls of the old farmers and miners the boots they wore had very thick soles (to elevate and protect the wearer from water) with hobnails (for grip, now replaced with rubber tread) and thick leather uppers, again to repel water, add insulation and protection. Because British weather is so changeable, especially in the hills of northern Britain I have come to see why this style of boot has been adapted and morphed into the all-round hiking/military boot us bushcrafters tend to wear today.

In dryer more predictably weathered lands a moccasin or simple sandal would suffice but in damp and changeable weathered Britain the hiking boot is a good general purpose shoe.

For me, the biggest downside of this style of boot is the lack of contact with the earth. The solid boot protects the wearer from ankle rolls but if I were to were a pair of huarache sandals or five fingers or better still, go entirely barefoot, I think I would 'pick' my path through the obstacle rather than stumble over them as a British musketeer may have done in north America (before being shot through the throat with an arrow from a silently stalking moccasined native). I also found that my feet didn't flex and within the boot mirroring the natural movement of a foot over terrain. Each foot remained artificially flaccid. I wonder if this contributes to fatigue and injury?

So, if someone could make a pair of water proof Five Fingers I'd be interested in field testing it.

 

[darrenleroy]

Big Swed posted this message on the forum called Chinese Fivefingels. He mistook ankle for wrist but his observations on minimal shoes on rough terrain are interesting. For me the fear of uncomfortable wet feet is a big factor. Maybe I should just get over it...


Hello, I had a nice walk on rocky beaches today. Maybe 20 km, with a daypack. I don't subscribe to the theory that you need wrist support for heavy loads. I carried insane heavy stuff in the army and we had ordinary leather boots and where instructed to wear them loosely tied above the wrist. There is soooo much debate on wether you need any wrist support, since I dropped my meindls (very supportive) in favour of Lundhags, which have little support, I have had zero problems. Just have normal good strong wrists instead of thinking an alpine boot will solve your problems. Sherpas use flip flops (up to a certain height but with the same load). One kilo on the foot is like five kilos in the backpack, this has been tested in numerous US army medical tests and in other clinical tests. Instead of worrying of support, lighten the load and lighten the shoes and be a happier camper.

They fivefingels worked very good. No problem with wet slippery rocks, much better grip than trainers or stiff hiking boots. The amount of rubber on the rock is a lot higher than with boots since these are flexible and allow the toes to be part of the grip in another way than ordinary shoes. I liked it a lot. They are sweatier than my trainers though. And the soak up really quick. It's just a matter of adjusting your perspective, it's no danger being wet. The same as if you switch to trail running shoes from boots.

On sizing, well, I usually have 45-46 in shoes, on hiking boots I use 47 (for spare socks). I went with 46 on the fivefingels, feels real good sizewise. You should probably go one above if you need socks, I think.

 

[treadlightly]

Darren, In spring through autumn getting your feet wet is not so bad. Fivefingers worn without socks work very well. I have just done a two day trip along the north norfolk coast path, walking around 14 miles on the second day. That involved wading through a shallow river estuary at one stage in my five fingers. No problem, they soon dried out. No blisters, decent grip, no ankle problems and at the end of each day i really didn.t feel like i had walked as far as i had. I reckon they would have been ok for your pennine walk.Ps mine are the kso treks which have a grippier sole than some other styles.

 

[darrenleroy]

Darren, In spring through autumn getting your feet wet is not so bad. Fivefingers worn without socks work very well. I have just done a two day trip along the north norfolk coast path, walking around 14 miles on the second day. That involved wading through a shallow river estuary at one stage in my five fingers. No problem, they soon dried out. No blisters, decent grip, no ankle problems and at the end of each day i really didn.t feel like i had walked as far as i had. I reckon they would have been ok for your pennine walk.Ps mine are the kso treks which have a grippier sole than some other styles.

Thanks, Treadlightly. I'm going to have to take the plunge very soon.

 

[Beardy Adam]

Thanks, Treadlightly. I'm going to have to take the plunge very soon.

I'm so close to buying some KSO Treks and seeing what they're like for walking...but..there's just something holding me back...must..buy..them.

 

[Bucketosudz]

I'm so close to buying some KSO Treks and seeing what they're like for walking...but..there's just something holding me back...must..buy..them.

I bought a pair of KSO's in May as my exclusive daily footwear. Hiked, fished, swam, and wore them daily for over four months...they are the best footwear I own! Single most downfall however is they will develop a stench. I launder mine regularly and put them on a Peets Boot Dryer and they are good as new.

 

[topknot]

Try this man, he might be able to make up what you want without the bushy price. I've had a chat with him to make up a pair of new boots for me when my old rouge boots go home.

www.shoe-craft.co.uk/catalog/index.php

Topknot

 

[ganstey]

Just found this thread and found it very interesting. I bought a pair of Bison Bushcraft boots about five years ago. I like them and find them comfortable, but don't wear them that often as I often have to wear steel toecaps.

However, I wasn't happy with the service I received from Bison. After a couple of months the two layers of rubber making up the soles started to separate. I contacted Bison, and was told to buy some glue! Not what I expected from a company trying to make their way, presumably by reputation. There were also in breach of trading standards as they clearly weren't fit for purpose. In the end I used some glue from my bicycle puncture repair kit, and it worked but it doesn't look that pretty.

I will continue to wear the boots as they are comfortable in dry conditions, but I wouldn't ever buy a Bison Bushcraft product again. Shame really.

Graham

 

[forestwalker]

Bison lost me too. I emailed (or web site form, I can't recall) and asked about sizing, and got absolutely no response at all.

 

[treadlightly]

Interesting. I have had mine for six weeks and there is a hint of separation on one boot. Will watch it closely.

 

[Roger]

Just found this thread and found it very interesting. I bought a pair of Bison Bushcraft boots about five years ago. I like them and find them comfortable, but don't wear them that often as I often have to wear steel toecaps.

However, I wasn't happy with the service I received from Bison. After a couple of months the two layers of rubber making up the soles started to separate. I contacted Bison, and was told to buy some glue! Not what I expected from a company trying to make their way, presumably by reputation. There were also in breach of trading standards as they clearly weren't fit for purpose. In the end I used some glue from my bicycle puncture repair kit, and it worked but it doesn't look that pretty.

I will continue to wear the boots as they are comfortable in dry conditions, but I wouldn't ever buy a Bison Bushcraft product again. Shame really.

Graham

We did have an issue with a batch of glue and our makers a while back. We now have a new maker and glue product as we were having issues at the time.
If I recall our answer at the time was ( to all customers who called ) that we could repair them for you, however some people were not willing to send theirs back for repair as they didn't want to be apart from the boots for long so we would have advised that the customer get them repaired at a shoe repair shop and send us the bill or failing that glue them up themselves.
In fact the notice to such is still on the noteboard by the phone!
I do feel it is important to relay the whole story when making such alegations on a public forum.

Forestwalker, have you checked your spam folder? We do answer all emails and occaisionally get calls saying we have not replied. We have hyperlinks in our signature and that is enough to send our mail to some peoples junk folder.

Roger

 

[ganstey]

Roger,

I've now found the email I received from you. In its entirety it reads:

You could post them back to us for repair but you'll probably save money and time by taking them to a heel bar to be glued back up.
Roger

No indication that the repair would be paid for, not even covering the cost of postage. In fact you imply exactly the opposite. If, as you now say, it was a manufacturing defect then I believe that under the Sale of Goods Act you are required to refund the purchase price, or effect repairs at your own cost. You neither did, nor offered to do, either of these.

I stand by my statement.
Graham