DIY waterproof Mukluks?

[forest_girl]

So a little introduction, I'm part of the barefoot running/hiking movement, it originated from my interest in 'primitive' cultures and its links to bushcraft, basically in all aboriginal cultures, people are either barefoot or when its too cold have very thin flexible footwear. I won't go into it too much but its how our feet are designed to work and the feeling of being connected to nature when bush crafting barefoot or in minimalist shoes is brilliant!
Anyway, now its fully winter in scotland, I cant be wondering around without shoes on! Right now I use thin wetsuit shoes over gore tex socks, it keeps things dry and flexible but it isn't very traditional and still gets a bit cold, not so much when I'm walking because the foot muscles are actually being used, but when I stop they get quite chilly! You can get dedicated winter hiking boots with thin flexible no heel soles, but not for less than £90, and I'm a poor student. Plus, I always prefer using traditional homemade equipment!

I've always liked the idea of traditional mukluks, with the buckskin foot and canvas calf part worn over a thick felt liner like these:

I have always wanted to make some, but they are obviously not well suited to the damp cold of Scotland, and would be no good in the wet here. So I was thinking, what if I made them like a modern waterproof hiking boot, with a waterproof breathable layer between the leather outer and the felt inner? That way the outer could get wet but the felt inner and your foot would be toasty and dry. Everything would also stay soft and flexible to keep my feet doing what they do. I would also use liquid rubber to coat the soles for more grip and durability on harder forest ground.

I was basically looking for opinions as to whether people think this would work? I would probably use tyvek as the waterproof membrane, but thats quite a slippery material so i have worries of the outer slipping all over the place when walking...

Also does anyone know any good resources/patterns for how to make mukluks? Or where to get buckskin from?

Has anyone tried it? Waterproof membrane mukluks? The other option is to make some normal mukluks and use gore tex socks inside, but the idea with the liner was that it would keep the felt inner bootie dry too!

Also sorry if this is posted to the wrong forum, I wast sure if it should go here or on the clothing and footwear forum.

 

[bopdude]

Not 100% sure but I think Lure of the North do a kit form, I'll check and post up, of course they haven't got the waterproof mid layer you're looking at though.

EDIT: yes they do LINK

 

[forest_girl]

Thanks for the link, though at that price (plus import) I'd be better off buying some minimalist boots! Did I mention I'm dirt cheap?

 

[bopdude]

How much do you think it would cost for all the bits if you had to source them, just asking not getting at you, curious is all, I'd like one of their cotton canvas anorak kits, but they are a bit pricey for this year

 

[forest_girl]

I honestly have no idea! I know canvas is pretty cheap (i'm a painter and have loads of the stuff anyway) and I could proof that myself (again I already have wax) and I have done some leather craft before so have sinew and needles. Weaving my own decorative band could be fun too. I have also done felt making and have a friend who keeps sheep so I could make the felted inners for free too.
The only cost I'm really expecting is finding a pattern/resource to learn to make them and the buckskin itself. I could use suede cow leather for pretty cheap but after a bit of reading its not really recommended for mocs, people seem to prefer braintan buckskin but I am struggling to find the stuff!! Those anoraks do look great too -I could loose a lot of money on that site if I'm not careful!

EDIT: I just discovered Lure of the North are run by a couple living off grid in the wilderness and now everyone they sell seems a whole lot more tempting and the prices a while lot more reasonable... Funny how that happens!!

 

[Robson Valley]

For a waterproof layer, I suggest you look for the black, closed-cell, foam neoprene. I know thwere's 1/8" available.
This is the 1/4" material used to build wet suits for diving.
Thicker at 3/8", it's used here to joint sections of steel culvert to span wide roads for drainage.

I have moose-hide mukluks, made for me in LaRonge, SK in 1964. All leather, they tie with a drawstring thong
just under the top fringe and above my calves. Saskatoon Sask in the 1960's commonly had a month of -30 - -40C. I never had cold feet.

More importantly, they have double soles. If the outers wore through, carefully cut them off.
As I only ever wore them in extreme cold, I never bothered to waterproof them with anything, the snow brushing off like sugar.
If I had to, I'd use Sno-Seal or something similar.

 

[Robson Valley]

Delete post

 

[Robson Valley]

What is happening?

For some style and design ideas, check these guys out

www.manitobah.ca

 

[forest_girl]

For a waterproof layer, I suggest you look for the black, closed-cell, foam neoprene. I know thwere's 1/8" available.
This is the 1/4" material used to build wet suits for diving.
Thicker at 3/8", it's used here to joint sections of steel culvert to span wide roads for drainage.

I have moose-hide mukluks, made for me in LaRonge, SK in 1964. All leather, they tie with a drawstring thong
just under the top fringe and above my calves. Saskatoon Sask in the 1960's commonly had a month of -30 - -40C. I never had cold feet.

More importantly, they have double soles. If the outers wore through, carefully cut them off.
As I only ever wore them in extreme cold, I never bothered to waterproof them with anything, the snow brushing off like sugar.
If I had to, I'd use Sno-Seal or something similar.

Thanks for the info! I almost wish we had that dry cold here, the wet cold here is only ever around -4C but because the damp of the air soaks everything through you really feel the cold and its difficult to insulate properly. Mukluks really do seem like the best thing for extreme cold! Did they still keep warm even when standing around? I know its different conditions but I find my feet mostly get cold when I stop moving.
Interesting with the neoprene - my experience with it is that it isn't actually that waterproof, it won't keep what is below it dry, though it does insulate well when wet, I'm using neoprene shoes over gore tex socks for hiking at the moment.

My idea is to have a couple of insulating layers, wool socks and a felt bootie, then a waterpoof layer, with the actual moccasin on the outside simply acting as a protective layer to stop the waterproof membrane or wool liners from wearing out or getting dirty I'd also make a rubber sole with shoe goo and rubber flakes or something similar, since I won't be walking on soft snow. I have also been looking at using something like a rabbit fur hide to make insulating boot liners instead dog felt, though m not sure how well that would work.

Basically I want to make some waterproof foot mittens, then use the mukluk as a protective shell. The main thing is staying as close to barefoot as I can while keeping my feet dry and insulated.

 

[Robson Valley]

Hi
I get the news about neoprene from my brother who has been diving for more that 50 years.
Maybe, he's had the "bends" too many times but I have seen samples of the 1/8 neoprene sheet.
It's a closed-cell foam which cannot soak up water.

Well, the Manitobah mukluks are so very modern with custom carved Vibram soles. Cannot argue with those people.
I think that without any serious fat waterproofing, leather is a poor wet=weather choice for foot wear.

Their "storyboots" have a very long mid-west Canadian heritage which is so very different from here on the west slope of the mountains into the Pacific Northwest cultures.
You see some boots for $1,000.00 or more. Don't blink. The beadwork is an enormous effort.

You know? It pi$$es rain here on the west coast. This winter, only 5 dry days in the last 60 in Vancouver.
I cannot tell you what the PacNW native footwear was for our rainy climate.
I will look. This winter, I would be suprised if it were not webbed feet.

 

[bopdude]

EDIT: I just discovered Lure of the North are run by a couple living off grid in the wilderness and now everyone they sell seems a whole lot more tempting and the prices a while lot more reasonable... Funny how that happens!!

Yeah, they run workshops and do Youtube tutorials for various things, as well as videos on a whole range of cold weather camping how to's.

LINK

 

[mrcharly]

Welcome, forest_girl

I used to run and walk barefoot year-round and found the biggest problem in winter was lack of grip on ice. Cold didn't seem to be an issue. My feet were pretty hardened with thick callus and very good blood supply.

Neoprene isn't great next to the skin, is a really good growth medium for bacteria and fungi. I've had to wear a wrist brace that is made from neoprene this year and it needs washing every second day. My neoprene cycling gloves were equally bad.

I think you'd be best served by something quite open (like a sandal type) and in really cold weather adding some some wool socks). That approach is quite popular amongst long distance cyclists - cycling sandals with wool socks - as the sweat dissipates well and when water soaks your feet it dries off.

 

[forest_girl]

Welcome, forest_girl

I used to run and walk barefoot year-round and found the biggest problem in winter was lack of grip on ice. Cold didn't seem to be an issue. My feet were pretty hardened with thick callus and very good blood supply.

Neoprene isn't great next to the skin, is a really good growth medium for bacteria and fungi. I've had to wear a wrist brace that is made from neoprene this year and it needs washing every second day. My neoprene cycling gloves were equally bad.

I think you'd be best served by something quite open (like a sandal type) and in really cold weather adding some some wool socks). That approach is quite popular amongst long distance cyclists - cycling sandals with wool socks - as the sweat dissipates well and when water soaks your feet it dries off.

I have found grip to be an issue, and in minimalist soles its difficult to find compatible ice cleats.

I was considering something like Huarache Sandals with wool socks but have found that with icy water coating pretty much everything up here combined with wind chill means that once my feet get cold it is difficult to warm up again. They don't get too bad while I am walking but they get really cold when I stop to lunch or when at camp searching and processing wood, and when I start walking again after that they are totally numb! and obviously for a mechanism that relies on ground feel and getting information rom you soles, numb feet are a bad idea!

I can see the drying thing working in theory but in paces I am walking the forest floor and grass on the hills is almost always totally soaked or covered in frost, so the footwear never gets a chance to dry off anyway, and is constantly refreshed with icy water! Thats why I was looking into more waterproof barefoot alternatives. Thanks of the input though, it might be I just need to toughen up and condition my feet to the cold a lot better, but my worry would be on multi day hikes spending all day trudging around in - temperatures, not just a few hours, could cause damage.

I cannot tell you what the PacNW native footwear was for our rainy climate.
I will look. This winter, I would be suprised if it were not webbed feet.

I'd be really interested to see what the NW native footwear is, it seems to be a surpassingly similar environment to scotland! Actually, I have just found this about traditional sottish highlander dress, the bit about footwear is quite interesting. http://www.tartansauthority.com/highland-dress/ancient/

It seems the scots preferred to be barefoot all year round, but made deerskin shoes very similar to low top moccasins. Its also mentioned that later on the highlanders cut holes in brogues for better drainage in the rain! mrcharly might be on to something with that sandal idea after all!

 

[Janne]

Well oiled reindeer hide has served the Same people for Millenia.
Their winterboots were insulated by a dried sedge or shoe hay, or a cotton like plant that grows on marshland.

Alternate way is to wear a well oiled/waxed leather boot, with nice, thick woolen socks. Very traditional and oldfashioned.

You want to go traditional, why are you investigating ultra modern materials like Neoprene and such?

 

[forest_girl]

Well oiled reindeer hide has served the Same people for Millenia.
Their winterboots were insulated by a dried sedge or shoe hay, or a cotton like plant that grows on marshland.

Alternate way is to wear a well oiled/waxed leather boot, with nice, thick woolen socks. Very traditional and oldfashioned.

You want to go traditional, why are you investigating ultra modern materials like Neoprene and such?

I'm currently using neoprene shoes - part of starting this thread was investigating ways to get away from modern materials and find more traditional ones. The only modern material I am looking at is a tyvek waterproof breathable layer to go between a traditional liner and a traditional outer - though I will look into oiling mukluks to waterproof them instead,though past experience tells me in such a damp climate oiled leather rarely keeps water out for more than a few hours, and after that it holds water in the shoe and gives you blisters and such.

It is telling though that traditional scottish footwear was not fully sealed but had holes in - they accepted the fact that in a very wet climate they could not keep their feet totally dry and instead favoured drainage, perhaps I should investigate that route further.

 

[C_Claycomb]

My experience has been with Canadian Army Mukluks (rubber base, nylon uppers and felt lining) in Canada between -16C and +5C and with Lundhaggs from -6C to +20C. In Canada the wet snow soaked the feet of everyone using hiking boots. One chap tried putting his feet and socks in plastic bags, inside the felt liners. That resulted in snow wet liners and a nasty sweat drenched sock, and rather cold feet. Best solution was putting socked foot in liner and simply gift wrapping the lot with a square of waterproof material and bit of string, then put that in the mukluk shell. The moisture lost by the feet was less than what would get in from the outside, so kept the insulation as dry as possible in the conditions. The volume of insulation meant that the sock next to the skin wasn't all that damp. We were hot-tenting so could dry stuff out.

Thick wool socks in Lundhaggs, which are about as non-breathable as its possible to be, were more comfortable than thin socks in unlined oiled leather, even in warm dry conditions. More sock to soak up moisture and keep feet dry.

Vivobarefoot have marked their Waterloo wellies down in a clearance £40. http://www.vivobarefoot.com/uk/womens/everyday/waterloo-womens

If the mukluk foot area is going to get wet anyway, why not just use a full grain leather instead of a suede? I have a set of house shoes made of moose or elk hide that are puckered and stitched, but are full grain on the outside. Should be more durable and hold up to getting soaked better.

 

[Polecatsteve]

Why not maintain the practicality of the neoprene but style them. Perhaps some form of cheap waxed canvas
Gaiter and again 2-3 sizes larger soft leather shoe/slipper. Slide neoprene into shoe, stitch gaiter to said shoe.

Give you the look you are after with the practical waterproof and warm interior. Perhaps a sheepskin / ugg style slipper or boot. The lining (if wool) will stay warm-ish wet.

I love doing stuff like this too! Let us know how it develops.

 

[Imagedude]

I'd use an oversize pair of Yeti Gaiters with a sole glued/stitched to the bottom.

 

[Polecatsteve]

I'd use an oversize pair of Yeti Gaiters with a sole glued/stitched to the bottom.

This is a good idea too, however you would need insulation inside. I assume you would use the neoprene shoe. They do have a very synthetic goretex look tho.

 

[forest_girl]

Lots of interesting ideas here - I like the idea of wrapping the insulation and foot in waterproof material and using the mukluk as a shell - also oiled full grain leather makes sense with the wetness. Unfortunately I have big feet so the vivobarefoot wellies aren't available in my size! I have also experienced a lot of wellies splitting after 1 season, especially when used hiking.
Intreating to see that breathability isn't really something to worry about too.

Stitching an upper to some slippers could be interesting, though it would be as cheap and more custom fitted to make my own I think. I have a general idea of a pattern from searching online and I can make some mockups in cheap canvas first to get it right.