Are Eastern Euros Stealing Fish?

[EdS]

Here in Bradford ew have lots of new Eastern Europeans and a very well established older communities following WW2.

I don't take much notice of fishing but most of the people I've seen colelcting fungi are:
a) "hippies" for want of a better description - not just the magic sort
b) middle class

It is the this middle class collecting is the main growing area of mushroom harvesters mainly due to fashion & the Wild food programme on TV & newspapers. Guess it wont be long before someone gets it wrong.

 

[Tourist]

Here in Bradford ew have lots of new Eastern Europeans and a very well established older communities following WW2.

I don't take much notice of fishing but most of the people I've seen colelcting fungi are:
a) "hippies" for want of a better description - not just the magic sort
b) middle class

It is the this middle class collecting is the main growing area of mushroom harvesters mainly due to fashion & the Wild food programme on TV & newspapers. Guess it wont be long before someone gets it wrong.

Just get some mushroom logs going, £20.00 will get you 5 - 6 more than pan filling crops a year for about 5 years.

 

[EdS]

got some logs plus we live in private wood, so it does not really affect me at home - it is more when out and about, National Trust land and the like

 

[sam_acw]

I'd be a little surprised if they were going after pike industrially - Carp is the traditional fish here and somewhat hard to get hold of in Britain.
You are meant to have licences for most fishing here from what I've been able to find and catch and release is not unheard of. Poland probably has fewer rivers and lakes than many areas of Britain. Most are concentrated in the North East.
One aspect which may make a difference here is that by far the largest part of the wilder lands in Poland (over 80%) are nationally owned and with free access. This does give people a different perspective as to exactly what is stealing here. I'd also imagine things are more tightly policed in Poland as with wages being much lower there are far more state foresters etc.
I don't really see an immigration time bomb as far as this wave of immigrants is concerned. A great many don't like Britain and have no wish to be there being employed in poor jobs despite their qualifications. The problem is that the Polish employment market is very slow moving. People tend to stay in jobs for life and promotion comes through seniority. There are very few chain stores with most companies being run by the owner - as a result there are few opportunities in management.Polish companies also tend to be very rigid and the management is often dictatorial.
Another factor is that once you have qualified within one sector you have to stay there. You cannot simply take a job to keep you going as it has a severely negative impact on your future prospects.
I see the majority of Poles returning here in the next 10 years. The economy is improving and wages are rising. New companies are springing up all the time. Once the current president's term is over expect a lot of young Poles to come home. They weren't part of the demographic that voted for him.
It is interesting to see someone from Bradford commenting - I lived there for 3 years. It is a wonderful city and an example of how multi culturalism does and doesn't work. All the small groups get along fairly well and add to the city. It is the mono-cultural areas that produce the problems.
Sorry for going on at such length - it's a matter that affects my daily life.

 

[Tourist]

Sam, I have seen the good and the bad of many people including the British and the Germans. Poland is still going through growing pains and many people are being over zealous in their use of new found freedoms.

The type of Pole that comes over here now has changed a little since the early ones came over. I know a few that are well qualified and are willing to do work well below their level of ability and intellect. These are the ones that want to build up some cash and then go home to buy a house or set up in business. I knew one guy who was working in a TESCO deep freeze storage depot, he was working all the hours he could to earn as much as he could, he had a tent that he slept in behind the changing rooms of the village football club so that he did not have to pay rent. All his money went back to his wife and children in Poland - he had a Ph.D. in mathematics.

Now though there are Poles coming over in groups, they intimidate people and are also responsible for a lot of the petty crime, especially in rural areas (I used to be a Police Officer and I still get told these things). This is not just what I think is happening, it is actually true, reported and you will find Poles in British prisons.

With the number of Eastern Europeans over here they are now also feeling the effects of unemployment. Many came over and instead of registering officially for work they worked on the black economy. This means that they cannot receive social welfare. Nowadays you will find a sizeable proportion of the homeless community in Britains major cities is made up of eastern europeans. This is becoming so much of a problem in some areas that the authorites are offering to re-patriate eastern europeans back to their homeland. Many accept the offer as they cannot afford to pay the travel cost themselves, but they will not shout about their failure in the land of milk and honey so they do not tell people back home.

And where I live the reservoir is full of pike, it is an attraction for fishermen, many travel from far away to rent a boat for a days fishing. The term industrially was loosely used, but anyone using a large net to trawl a reservoir is not fishing. Here you are, this is a five minute walk from my house, in fact I walked around it with the kids this afternoon:

http://www.anglianwaterleisure.co.uk/index.php?sectionid=93&parentid=92

 

[stephendedwards]

I think you are right, but it appears that in the fens a few bad eggs are tainting the eastern european communities reputation.

Interesting... are you suggesting that these few bad eggs are Eastern European and if so on what basis are you levelling this charge? Poaching is a age old tradition amongst the native inhabitants of these isles. I believe that the last lot of central/eastern europeans emigres (cira 6th century) have carried on this tradition..poaching that is..

Stephen

 

[Mouldsy]

We had a problem here a few years ago, when the eastern Europeans came over they were going out at night with huge nets and netting every kind of fish in the area they were fishing. They weren't fussy about what size or type of fish they were getting as they weren't for eating, they were taking them to the fish processors and selling the lot.
When ever they were questioned about what they doing they pulled knifes and all sorts of weapons out, by the time the police got there they had disappeared.

 

[EdS]

It is interesting to see someone from Bradford commenting - I lived there for 3 years. It is a wonderful city and an example of how multi culturalism does and doesn't work. All the small groups get along fairly well and add to the city. It is the mono-cultural areas that produce the problems.
for going on at such length - it's a matter that affects my daily life.

Well last years works Christmas do I ended up in a pub where one of the guys (he rents several houses) was having a joint Slovenian Pakistani party. Up shot of was I ended up spending the night drinking (mostly vodka) with 3 Slovenian ladies how spoke little English and a bit of German and some Urdu (I speak a very small amount of German) and 2 lasses from Bradford in headscarves who obviously spoke traditional Bradford (almost like English- if you know the area you know what I mean) and Urdu.

That is multi-culturalism at work for you.

 

[demographic]

I'd be a little surprised if they were going after pike industrially - Carp is the traditional fish here and somewhat hard to get hold of in Britain.
You are meant to have licences for most fishing here from what I've been able to find and catch and release is not unheard of. Poland probably has fewer rivers and lakes than many areas of Britain. Most are concentrated in the North East.
One aspect which may make a difference here is that by far the largest part of the wilder lands in Poland (over 80%) are nationally owned and with free access. This does give people a different perspective as to exactly what is stealing here. I'd also imagine things are more tightly policed in Poland as with wages being much lower there are far more state foresters etc.
I don't really see an immigration time bomb as far as this wave of immigrants is concerned. A great many don't like Britain and have no wish to be there being employed in poor jobs despite their qualifications. The problem is that the Polish employment market is very slow moving. People tend to stay in jobs for life and promotion comes through seniority. There are very few chain stores with most companies being run by the owner - as a result there are few opportunities in management.Polish companies also tend to be very rigid and the management is often dictatorial.
Another factor is that once you have qualified within one sector you have to stay there. You cannot simply take a job to keep you going as it has a severely negative impact on your future prospects.
I see the majority of Poles returning here in the next 10 years. The economy is improving and wages are rising. New companies are springing up all the time. Once the current president's term is over expect a lot of young Poles to come home. They weren't part of the demographic that voted for him.
It is interesting to see someone from Bradford commenting - I lived there for 3 years. It is a wonderful city and an example of how multi culturalism does and doesn't work. All the small groups get along fairly well and add to the city. It is the mono-cultural areas that produce the problems.
for going on at such length - it's a matter that affects my daily life.

Nice to hear this argued from a diferent perspective.

 

[mr dazzler]

Interesting... are you suggesting that these few bad eggs are Eastern European and if so on what basis are you levelling this charge? Poaching is a age old tradition amongst the native inhabitants of these isles. I believe that the last lot of central/eastern europeans emigres (cira 6th century) have carried on this tradition..poaching that is..

Stephen

Yeah right its non eastern european "fishermen" that like to haul out some nice fat pike or carp for christmas or easter dinner. And its well out of order to thraten people with weapons just for the sake of a netful of fish. A skilful poacher doesnt show there hand so readily. Theres angling laws and customs in place which the immigrant's seem happy to ignore, at least as far as taking and keeping coarse fish is concerned.
We hear a lot of talk about how the immigrants are good for the national economy etc I dont know how much truth there is in that or if its just internationalist rhetoric and rationalisation to explain why they are here to take advantage of our stronger economic situation. But even if its only a few that do this sort of fishing, the disregard for British customs etc does create a bad feeling against all the immigrants who are here, most of who (we are told) are law abiding etc. That isnt racist or xenophobia by the way, just say it as it is. Just like if a wave of Brit's went to poland and destroyed "mary" statues at every oportunity, or went in droves into the swedish wilderness and stripped the trees and bushes, dumped rubbish everywhere and caused forest fire's, it would offend there cultures and cause understandable resentment.

 

[woodstock]

I am 4th generation Romany Rose is the family name my family fled Romania in the 30s as they were being subjected to unimaginable torture and execution at the hands of both the Romanian Government and at the hands of the invading Germans we were originally from Kashmir and were part of a nomadic tribe when we settled in Britain as far as I am aware we adhered to the laws of the country although I do know my Grandad was a prolific poacher rabbit, trout and game birds. I have never heard of any stories of him threatening anyone to hand over their catch he was a poacher as was his mother and is documented in the local museum, and he was a bare knuckle fighter up to the age of 77 won his last fight months before he died I was 4 at the time 1960 for I believe £50

 

[stephendedwards]

A skilful poacher doesnt show there hand so readily.
Theres angling laws and customs in place which the immigrant's seem happy to ignore, at least as far as taking and keeping coarse fish is concerned.
But even if its only a few that do this sort of fishing, the disregard for British customs etc does create a bad feeling against all the immigrants who are here, most of who (we are told) are law abiding etc. That isnt racist or xenophobia by the way, just say it as it is.

Rather over egging the pudding don't you think - how many poachers do you know?

I am at a lost as to which customs you are referring to? Laws, well its no secret we are massively over governed in this country. Indeed the British have a made an art form of going abroad and ignoring customs and languages.

And unless I missed it no one has provided any evidence that this wasn't a bunch of local "british" yobs - the assumption is immediately that it is the outsiders..

As for racism and Zenophobia well I cannot speak for folk here but my experience that it is alive and well here in the UK.

 

[EdS]

it wasn't Eastern Europeans poachers that died when they over turned a car in fields near Leeds - it was a "nice family bloke" from Leeds that died which doing an illegal activity with firearms.

4 blokes, 1 car 3 or 4 rifles in the car drive at speed over fields.

 

[Tony]

People, there's some good information in this thread but there's a lot of chaff as well. Can you please avoid making broad sweeping statements about other peoples, some of the statements can be offensive so please consider this before you post, if that doesn't work we'll just shut the thread .

Thanks
T

 

[dwardo]

People, there's some good information in this thread but there's a lot of chaff as well. Can you please avoid making broad sweeping statements about other peoples, some of the statements can be offensive so please consider this before you post, if that doesn't work we'll just shut the thread .

Thanks
T

Fair enough ALL Latvian vodka might not be as good as the stuff i tried but ill take the risk Here is one last sweeping statement though, all of the eastern european people i have met so far have been friendly, courteous, charming and willing to share all they had with me including food, drink, stories and knowledge even though we had just met. This has been proven on several chance meetings with the last being cooking stew and salami around a camp fire whilst drinking far too much ! (notice a theme developing here )

Its easy to point the finger at a certain group rather than individuals,,, Polish, Latvian, British, or what ever but in my book an ejit is just an ejit no matter what the nationality

 

[Zammo]

Rather over egging the pudding don't you think - how many poachers do you know?

I am at a lost as to which customs you are referring to? Laws, well its no secret we are massively over governed in this country. Indeed the British have a made an art form of going abroad and ignoring customs and languages.

And unless I missed it no one has provided any evidence that this wasn't a bunch of local "british" yobs - the assumption is immediately that it is the outsiders..

As for racism and Zenophobia well I cannot speak for folk here but my experience that it is alive and well here in the UK.

You hit the nail right on the head there. You only have to go to places like Magaluf, Ayia Napa, Costa Brava etc. To see how Birits living abroad act.

 

[big_swede]

Just like if a wave of Brit's ... went in droves into the swedish wilderness and stripped the trees and bushes, dumped rubbish everywhere and caused forest fire's...

That's not the brits. That's the germans who do that. (Sad but true...)

 

[Tourist]

You hit the nail right on the head there. You only have to go to places like Magaluf, Ayia Napa, Costa Brava etc. To see how Birits living abroad act.

Thats Brits going abroad for 2 weeks on their bucket and spade break and experiencing the cheapness of the local brew.

The thing is though Brits may over enjoy the local brew and fall down, expel their lunch and wake up with headaches. But, the places they go to are geared for dip stick holiday makers and the local police will and do step in if it gets out of hand.........Other than that these places will take all your money and smile at you whilst they do it.

You try taking the kind of behaviour exhibited in those places to a more local area and you will very soon be given short schrift and banged up..........ever seen a Cypriot jail?

 

[spamel]

The problem with society as a whole is that medical care is too good, there aren't enough dangers to cull the herd, so to speak! People that are as thick as two short planks tend to thrive, whereas yaers ago they would have fell of a cliff or would have ended up as lunch for a sabre toothed tiger! Unfortunately, we are too safe in our little world now, there isn't a way of getting rid of the 10 percenters!

 

[Toadflax]

there aren't enough dangers to cull the herd, so to speak! People that are as thick as two short planks tend to thrive

Nothing really to do with the main subject of this thread, but in times gone by when we had big wars they were called cannon fodder.


Geoff