Why is Ray mears woodlore gear so expensive?

[JonathanD]

Nothing wrong with that, but to answer the OP, that's a huge part of the price.

According to someone who knows. You pay 7% for the name at the most and that's an optimistic calculation to be fair on those arguing against. Hardly a huge part of the price at that. Around £25. At a knife that price, it's miniscule, not huge.

 

[JonathanD]

Well, actually they are much better performers. Being a Mora user myself for many years, and then getting a Mark Hill Mora clone with different specs (full tang, thicker blade while maintaining the same grind angle, etc), I can tell you, it is a much better performer. I had no idea who mark was before talking to him about the project.

But that's your opinion. So it's back to things being from a perspective. I'm sure many Mora users and SWC/AW users would argue against your opinion. Everyone is different, you can't judge what is best for everyone. People make their own choices. My knife performs better than all those knives. For me.

 

[Laurentius]

Think you misunderstood him there mate. I took that to mean the price of something may seem high, but the quality makes it a long lasting item... for example... a £100 belt seems expensive next to a £30 one.... but what if that £100 belt lasts 10 years.... and the £30 belt lasts but 2... that expensive belt is actually a lot cheaper than the £30 belt ( £10 per year vs £15 per year...)

I was listening to something on the radio the other week to do with psychology and the perception quality derived from price. It was actually about the appreciation of expensive wine. Apparantly in naieve subjects who were given FMRI scans, the pleasure centres of the brain lit up more when they thought they were being given expensive wine when in reality all subjects were given the same wine and merely told it had a different price. This did not work for genuine wine connuoseiurs only wine snobs.

If Ray Mears made everything that bears his monniker then I might appreciate the expense, but he doesn't he just benefits from the mark up.

But never mind Mr Mears, surveying those Heinnie Haynes catalogues (as you do) who is buying all those Rockstead knives and what do they actually do with them?

 

[JonathanD]

But never mind Mr Mears, surveying those Heinnie Haynes catalogues (as you do) who is buying all those Rockstead knives and what do they actually do with them?

Anything they want I guess. You should ask on BB, you'll get quite a run of different answers. Personally, I'd rather spend my money on a Sebenza. I like them a load more. And I use mine for cutting stuff mostly. It's a pleasure to carry and use. And that's all that matters.

 

[Goatboy]

Must say I'm beginning to feel sorry for Woodlore here.

The Company I worked for 'till recently suffered the same thing. We did some expensive high end things, and we did a lot of good run of the mill gear and a good number of bargains thrown in too.

But because we tried to outshine the others in our field through great customer service and staff knowledge people perceived us as expensive, usually with a dismissive "Aye that expensive place" when they hadn't looked at what was actually on offer. They were blinded by the glare from the top end kit and the British mentality of sour grapes.


Some of Woodlore's stuff is dang pricey but others as stated are lower than market average. But some folks little aspirational and averous eyes get the better of them.

So look around, find your deal. You only will pay a price you feel is worth it in the end (or you wouldn't buy it). Make sure you don't get your fingers burned on some of the unscrupulous sites and enjoy what you bought. Folk will always pay a premium for something they desire for some reason.

 

[cranmere]

Sometimes things have value other than the superficial. Maybe a particular knife is absolutely the right fit to your hand, maybe it appeals to your artistic sense (I have a kitchen blade that was bought at least partly for that), maybe excellent customer service is valuable, maybe it pleases you to be carrying a tool that links you to a hero of yours. All are perfectly valid reasons for paying whatever you think is reasonable.

 

[greatbear]

and I quite agree profits do need to be made but its the profit margin which concerns me.
in my view if an item has rm woodlore etc printed or stamped on it then it becomes a fashion item for example when I was about 15 years old bowie knives were the knife of choice here in the uk. then came the movie first blood and the hollow handled survival knife came into its own then came the butterfly. then came the tanto and then the lofty wiseman. then the woodlore. these are not essential items perfectly designed they are cultural tracking. they follow the fashion of the time.
mr mears doe have a profit to make but profit and love of the outdoors are very different. the thing is people are very sheep like when it comes to fashion. for example my own sleeping bag has served me well for about ten years its still going strong and cost me about £30 from argos. so I couldn't justify spending hundreds of pounds on a bag cos its got someones name other than my own on it.
bushcraft is supposed to be within everyones reach. Somewhere along the line the message has been lost.

Any sensible businessman charges enough to make a decent profit. That much keeps them going and if they constantly sell everything they can lay their hands on they put the prices up to the point where the market can stand.

No doubt you all work for businesses that do this and that's how you get your wages. Is it that much of a surprise that other people do it?

If the rise in building continues and I get to the point when I'm turning good jobs away because I don't have enough hours in the day then I imagine I will put my rate up and with luck the market will stand it otherwise I'll have to drop it back down again.

 

[JonathanD]

bushcraft is supposed to be within everyones reach. Somewhere along the line the message has been lost.

But it is. Bushcraft just requires knowledge. That's free.

 

[rik_uk3]

Bushcraft is available to all and fits all budgets. Ray's is a small business with a comparatively small turnover so he has a higher mark up, no big deal; if you don't like his prices shop elsewhere.

 

[GGTBod]

some people are brand dippy and can not accept a product is any good without a celebrity endorsement, personally it is the biggest thing to put me off any brand when they feel it needs attached to a celeb for it to be any good.

 

[GGTBod]

Just like my underwear the only name on the waist band is mine

 

[sunndog]

i'm afriad its just the way of the world folks

it can't be the first time you've across this in day to day life surely.....you never seen supermarket own brand asprin next to the branded ones?
advil may be chemically identical to the own brand but it is a 'brand' and they coat the advil pills in suger, just makes em a bit nicer....and dearer

i'm a biker, i ride cruiser style motorcycles. harleys are IMO over priced and over rated........i don't buy harley simples

another chap might want a cruiser and TO HIM only a harley will do. so he pays the premium

yet another chap just plain loves his road king or whatever and would buy one no matter what badge was on the tank

many, many more examples to be had in all walks of life

 

[GGTBod]

Another good example, i have a great hand knitted pure wool aran knit jumper, handmade by a skilled old lady with top quality wool and she charged me £50, something looking less chunky but in the same style with Ralph Lorens name on it is £450, i like the little old ladies jumper better and not just because she doesn't feel the need to sew her name into my chest.

i know gratuitously flashing the £50 jumper

Ralphs version for an 800% markup

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RALPH-LAU...K_Men_s_Jumpers_Cardigans&hash=item27e54b7f54

Personally i think you'd have to be really dumb or just plain gullible to fall for something like this your whole life.

Sad to say it but bushcrafting supplies are proliferated with fashion items

 

[cranmere]

That old lady charged you a pittance for her time however, a sweater like that would take even a fast knitter about 40 hours to make. If she got pleasure out of the time she spent making it then clearly she received what she considered to be adequate payment. Personally I knit but I don't enjoy the process so my answer to requests for "will you knit me a pair of socks?" is "Yes but they take me about 15 hours to knit so at my normal billing rate for my day job that will cost you £300 plus the cost of the yarn." The interesting thing is how many people get quite upset by that and think that I should knit for free, much teh same as musicians get fed up with being asked to perform "for the exposure."

 

[rancid badger]

Not everything that woodlore peddles is overpriced.

Although the vast majority is!

Frankly, if I spotted something on woodlores site ( not that I bother to look) that I thought I needed, I'd see if I could find it elsewhere and anything branded as "exclusive to woodlore" I wouldn't buy at all.

 

[boatman]

Had my sheath knife (top one in the picture) since I was twelve. For years though it didn't get much use which will be a factor in its longevity of course. Ordinary knives in the fifties seemed of decent quality with carbon steel blades and it was one of the series of sheath knives with leather ringed handles. If Ray's last as long they will be decent value.

 

[shaggystu]

....But never mind Mr Mears, surveying those Heinnie Haynes catalogues (as you do) who is buying all those Rockstead knives and what do they actually do with them?

I don't know, but I wish it was me

....I'd rather spend my money on a Sebenza. I like them a load more. And I use mine for cutting stuff mostly. It's a pleasure to carry and use. And that's all that matters.

Which model you got Jonathan, I do quite like the Sebenza.

 

[rg598]

But that's your opinion. So it's back to things being from a perspective. I'm sure many Mora users and SWC/AW users would argue against your opinion. Everyone is different, you can't judge what is best for everyone. People make their own choices. My knife performs better than all those knives. For me.

I think now you are just intentionally avoiding my point, so I'm not sure how to continue the conversation. Here is my last attempt: Your original statement was that Woodlore knives are higher price because you are paying for higher quality (pay once so you don't have to buy twice). I pointed out that quality does not account for the entire difference in price. As an example, I gave other custom knife makers who produce the same quality knives (i.e. they cut just as well and are just as durable, and customer service is just as good, and in fact are custom made to your specifications) at a fifth of the price. That's all. So, quality alone can not explain the difference in price.

If you like stuff with RM on it, and are willing to pay extremely high prices for it, that's fine. No one is saying you shouldn't. There are plenty of people walking around in Gucci and Ralph Lauren. They pay for the name and the fashion statement, not for pure quality. We don't need to pretend like that is not the case. If you want to pay the money for a knife because of the name, or because it looks pretty, or because you just like it, that's fine. However, that is not the same thing as paying for quality.

With respect to the Woodlore knives, you can get the same quality for much, much less. On the other hand, if you honestly believe that a Woodlore knife is five times higher quality than every other custom knife, then I don't think there is much more we can say to each other in that respect.

 

[JonathanD]

I think now you are just intentionally avoiding my point, so I'm not sure how to continue the conversation. Here is my last attempt: Your original statement was that Woodlore knives are higher price because you are paying for higher quality (pay once so you don't have to buy twice).

I never once said that. I said they were a higher price because Alan Wood is an established knife maker and he is then selling on to RM who then puts his mark up on them. There are two steps in the line here, not just Alan selling to the customer direct. Therefore the cost is higher. If you ask Alan to make you the same knife to the same spec as the Woodlore, the price difference isn't that great. It's the difference between wholesale and retail. If you want a knife from a premier knife maker, RM endorsed or not, then you'll have to pay a higher price. It doesn't make it 5 times better. It's because it's five times desirable based upon craftsmanship, reputation and demand.

As for quality, you can't say that anything on RM's site isn't of a very high quality. But you'll have to pay for that higher quality and the RM endorsement. That's business. But you keep on striving to make a point that most of the profit is due to the RM stamping alone, and that simply isn't true. The mark up for the branding is quite low.

 

[sunndog]

Not everything that woodlore peddles is overpriced.

Although the vast majority is!

Frankly, if I spotted something on woodlores site ( not that I bother to look) that I thought I needed, I'd see if I could find it elsewhere and anything branded as "exclusive to woodlore" I wouldn't buy at all.

not a woodlore/RM fan then lol

to be fair, when i'v looked on there. the non woodlore branded stuff seems around the same price as everyone else
in fact i quite fancy one of his beanie hats this winter. good quality fur lined merino wool beanie for 20 quid seems pretty reasonable to me