I have the Ray Mears unicorn scrotum tinder pouch, he recommends frequent use of badger tears to stop it going wrinkly.
Most of my designer clothes do have my name on the label, one advantage of being named Mark Spencer I suppose?
Why is Ray mears woodlore gear so expensive?
- Thread starter beretta63
- Start date
I have the Ray Mears unicorn scrotum tinder pouch, he recommends frequent use of badger tears to stop it going wrinkly.
Most of my designer clothes do have my name on the label, one advantage of being named Mark Spencer I suppose?
Another good example, i have a great hand knitted pure wool aran knit jumper, handmade by a skilled old lady with top quality wool and she charged me £50, something looking less chunky but in the same style with Ralph Lorens name on it is £450, i like the little old ladies jumper better and not just because she doesn't feel the need to sew her name into my chest.
i know gratuitously flashing the £50 jumper
Ralphs version for an 800% markup
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RALPH-LAU...K_Men_s_Jumpers_Cardigans&hash=item27e54b7f54
Personally i think you'd have to be really dumb or just plain gullible to fall for something like this your whole life.
Sad to say it but bushcrafting supplies are proliferated with fashion items
Think you look better in the second pic mate
To me she is a genuine star and she knows i am on free beck and call if she needs any of my skills, it is an impressive piece of work and lovely to wear, I do believe she really enjoys knitting especially if the items knitted are to be loved, like you said she must be covering materials cost and very little else as the time put in alone is worth way more per hour, to me the jumper is a genuine piece of wool art that i will wear and care for until me or it are done.
Do you knit often and what do you knit? If i had not messed my hands up in my reckless youth i'd take it up, i can just about manage weaving leather cords for a few hours before the rsi kicks in at the wrists
This is very old marketing rule:
"People Don't Buy Products; They Buy Better Versions of Themselves."
"People Don't Buy Products; They Buy Better Versions of Themselves."
I have absolutely no idea what that means!!!!!
If I buy a Mora, it's a better version of me??? In what way? Does it only apply to certain products? What about when I buy a sandwich for my lunch???
Your friend sounds like an excellent sort, and I always reckon that a swap of skills is a good thing. I knit mostly socks and shawls, because I like them. I've never particularly enjoyed the process but I like the things I can make. My hands know how to knit without looking at it so I can knit whilst chatting or reading or watching television. Sympathy for the RSI, I fear that my hands are starting to develop arthritis in company with my feet.
To drink human need water only not coffee or beer.
I need and I want, different things. "I want" is imagination better version of me.
I need and I want, different things. "I want" is imagination better version of me.
People often try to buy into the lifestyle, works for sport gear, Hardly Movinsons, posh smellies, you name it.
The trick with selling things is to sell them in such a way that the people you are selling to have a fair bit of disposable income.
No point if all your customers are paupers unless you are selling something they absolutely need.
It does - and anyone who has ever bought a nasty nylon shirt for an obscene amount of money, featuring a "Sports Team" of a town in which they do not live, starring highly paid players who have no association with that town at all, needs their head tested.
However I really don't mind, if the gods didn't intend me to laugh, they wouldn't have invented football fans.
Here you go
Sally in Wales did an excellent tutorial for a really good pair of socks.
http://www.downsizer.net/Articles/Make_your_own/Quick_and_Chunky_Sock_Pattern/
Your skilled old lady knitted a good pattern too, properly fitted into the sleeves and shoulders
none of the rubbish hard shoulder edge of the commercial 'hand loomed' version in the other photo.cheers,
M
The main reason his gear is so expensive is that he adds half a a percent to the price every time someone posts a thread on here asking why its so expensive.
Its happened so many times that the price has shot through the roof.
The very fact that these threads are pretty regular (I might have exaggerated slightly on the number, ahem...artistic licence and all that.) shows that masses of people are looking on his site and comparing the prices. More people looking, equates to a larger amount of viewers buying.
There are other Bushcraft instructors out there (Woodsmoke is a good place to start) and other knifemakers as well (Mark Hill being one I've dealt with and been very pleased indeed).
I suppose the way to turn these threads round is to mention as many of the competition as possible, that way it doesn't sound like we are just complaining about our lack of cash to afford these things, we are pointing out that there's other alternatives as good if not better.
Its happened so many times that the price has shot through the roof.
The very fact that these threads are pretty regular (I might have exaggerated slightly on the number, ahem...artistic licence and all that.) shows that masses of people are looking on his site and comparing the prices. More people looking, equates to a larger amount of viewers buying.
There are other Bushcraft instructors out there (Woodsmoke is a good place to start) and other knifemakers as well (Mark Hill being one I've dealt with and been very pleased indeed).
I suppose the way to turn these threads round is to mention as many of the competition as possible, that way it doesn't sound like we are just complaining about our lack of cash to afford these things, we are pointing out that there's other alternatives as good if not better.
Personally if he didn't make the item you are buying i just don't get it, like say Ray actually made each knife or beaver gonad pouch himself and he actually milked the badger tears and then his wife bottled them in bottles that his children blew from glass i might buy into the brand game, but having crap churned out by a popular brand trying to boost it's commercial appeal by attaching itself to a celebrity is pathetic, might as well just be a sticker with RM woodlore on it slapped on any old bit of kit.
I am not trying to be offensive in any way i'm just saying it how i see it, as i young adult i was conned like many into the brand game as we didn't have any higher than Gola as a kid, much to my disgust i found i did not run any faster in Nike Air Max than i did in Hitech Strada and they didn't last any longer either for their 1000% price difference, only so many times you fall for this con in whatever games you play in life before you wise up, either that or spend your life getting fleeced out of your hard earned cash convincing yourself it was worth every penny.
I am all for paying good money for good stuff but i want that good stuff to be proven by real users in real situation not manipulated in image by a person i would like to emulate and charged extra for the privilege
I am not trying to be offensive in any way i'm just saying it how i see it, as i young adult i was conned like many into the brand game as we didn't have any higher than Gola as a kid, much to my disgust i found i did not run any faster in Nike Air Max than i did in Hitech Strada and they didn't last any longer either for their 1000% price difference, only so many times you fall for this con in whatever games you play in life before you wise up, either that or spend your life getting fleeced out of your hard earned cash convincing yourself it was worth every penny.
I am all for paying good money for good stuff but i want that good stuff to be proven by real users in real situation not manipulated in image by a person i would like to emulate and charged extra for the privilege
I went and had a look at the prices. Anything like Mora's and Zebras and Opsrey water bottles are the same or cheaper than anywhere else.
The RM Axe is more expensive than the normal ones. Lets take a look at that.
Mora's are £10-£15 because they are mass production. Meaning set up a production line and just churn them out in their millions. Or putting it another way....
The Research and Development cost per item is significantly cheaper because the same Research and Development cost is divided by more "units", meaning the cost of each "unit" is significantly cheaper.
The setup of Production per item is significantly cheaper because the same setup cost is divided by more "units", meaning the cost of each "unit" is significantly cheaper.
The man hours in each item are significantly reduced make the man hours that need to be paid for in each item significantly smaller.
So a Mora Clone from a maker is going to be significantly more expensive that the mass production version.
RM Axes are a limited run meaning the setup costs per item is going to be more. Remember Granfors axes are semi-handmade.
Then the thing arrives at the shop and person/people who run the shop, take your phone calls, post it to you take care of returns and issues and (presumably) know a bit about the item and it's use (where a basic retailer/ebay shop does not have to). Those people need paid.
Lastly Ray needs paid. He started with pretty much nothing spent a decades gathering all the knowledge and testing gear and putting the whole woodlore thing together. I don't peruse the Forbes List much but I doubt you'll find him on it now or anytime soon. And if you do it certainly won't have been from the shop.
I challenge anyone who finds Woodlore expensive to take the item they find most offensively expensive (except the quick release belt loop) and make the item themselves counting it a £10.00 an hour and also adding the costs of any specialised tools they already own in some way. i.e. if you own a belt sander and are making the knife, divide the cost of the belt sander by how many items you have made with it and add that to the cost of your knife.
If you can make the item for the same or less, while including your time materials and tools, then post it up on here.
The RM Axe is more expensive than the normal ones. Lets take a look at that.
Mora's are £10-£15 because they are mass production. Meaning set up a production line and just churn them out in their millions. Or putting it another way....
The Research and Development cost per item is significantly cheaper because the same Research and Development cost is divided by more "units", meaning the cost of each "unit" is significantly cheaper.
The setup of Production per item is significantly cheaper because the same setup cost is divided by more "units", meaning the cost of each "unit" is significantly cheaper.
The man hours in each item are significantly reduced make the man hours that need to be paid for in each item significantly smaller.
So a Mora Clone from a maker is going to be significantly more expensive that the mass production version.
RM Axes are a limited run meaning the setup costs per item is going to be more. Remember Granfors axes are semi-handmade.
Then the thing arrives at the shop and person/people who run the shop, take your phone calls, post it to you take care of returns and issues and (presumably) know a bit about the item and it's use (where a basic retailer/ebay shop does not have to). Those people need paid.
Lastly Ray needs paid. He started with pretty much nothing spent a decades gathering all the knowledge and testing gear and putting the whole woodlore thing together. I don't peruse the Forbes List much but I doubt you'll find him on it now or anytime soon. And if you do it certainly won't have been from the shop.
I challenge anyone who finds Woodlore expensive to take the item they find most offensively expensive (except the quick release belt loop) and make the item themselves counting it a £10.00 an hour and also adding the costs of any specialised tools they already own in some way. i.e. if you own a belt sander and are making the knife, divide the cost of the belt sander by how many items you have made with it and add that to the cost of your knife.
If you can make the item for the same or less, while including your time materials and tools, then post it up on here.
At least Ray Mears is selling quality equipment. If you believe it is overpriced or not is a different matter. However Bear Grylls is simply selling branded landfill. I doubt anyone who's serious about the outdoors will go near his stuff, but my nephew (10) is obsessed with him. As I'm sure many of a similar age are. On the whole I think he's a pretty good role model (I have certain issues but that's another subject). However, every BG item I have bought him has been complete crap. The sort of quality you expect from a shooting range at a fair. So if we are to continue on the subject of brand exploitation we might want to reset our sights.
I've picked and chosen what i have bought from them over the years.
The leather goods are of the highest quality and last forever. British made so you pay the appropriate wages so these people can earn a living.
Never liked the knives but that's just personal preference, I paid a hell of a lot more than the price of a Woodlore of any style for my Stu Mitchell secare knife.
They know what they are talking about and everything always arrives in time.
So things are just silly overpriced compared to other products (surefire torches for instance) and can be found cheaper with a minimum of fuss and internet searching.
Their customer service is unrivaled. When i decided i wanted a new waterproof jacket and decided on the Norona recon Woodlore were one of the cheaper stockists. I had no idea which size i wanted and for that price i wanted a perfect fit so when i rang they charged me for one but sent me two sizes to try so i could send back the one i didn't want. I'm sure they kept my credit card details in case i kept both but still the service was great.
Some of my stuff is long gone now (sold on not worn out!) but the belt is well worn and still in perfect working order and 6 years later the recon is still a trusted travel companion.
It's quality kit and for that you must pay a premium unless you personally know a craftsmen who will do the same for less.
Not everything is the best value but that is easily rectified by half an hour searching on the net.
The leather goods are of the highest quality and last forever. British made so you pay the appropriate wages so these people can earn a living.
Never liked the knives but that's just personal preference, I paid a hell of a lot more than the price of a Woodlore of any style for my Stu Mitchell secare knife.
They know what they are talking about and everything always arrives in time.
So things are just silly overpriced compared to other products (surefire torches for instance) and can be found cheaper with a minimum of fuss and internet searching.
Their customer service is unrivaled. When i decided i wanted a new waterproof jacket and decided on the Norona recon Woodlore were one of the cheaper stockists. I had no idea which size i wanted and for that price i wanted a perfect fit so when i rang they charged me for one but sent me two sizes to try so i could send back the one i didn't want. I'm sure they kept my credit card details in case i kept both but still the service was great.
Some of my stuff is long gone now (sold on not worn out!) but the belt is well worn and still in perfect working order and 6 years later the recon is still a trusted travel companion.
It's quality kit and for that you must pay a premium unless you personally know a craftsmen who will do the same for less.
Not everything is the best value but that is easily rectified by half an hour searching on the net.
with the axe issue, why should Gainsford bruks sell hatchets to Ray at trade value and let him stick his name on it and take the credit. Ray is charged a premium to stick his name on it as all the axes are one offs anyway,he picks them up at a high price, probably normal gb retail price. Same with everything else thats from another company with his name on it, or as others have said small runs are expensive. i believe its called pricing something out of the market, but it hasn't worked. Lots of companys do it, its like supermarkets asking kelloggs to undercut there own cereal !
I could easily make a sublime knife that would really cost 1000 pounds, the sheath would be extra, I could make it to order and individual spec, it would take me a day. After you factor in machines,materials tools, man hours bills rent tax rates, it could easily add up. Stick 10 people in there and a few more machines. and that £1000 knife costs £500, but its now from a company not a person, outsource some of the manufacture £250 but it isn't to your spec, mass produce £50, but it isn't hand finished. its the principle of mass production, why shoes from a cobbler are expensive, but they are just what you wanted.
I could easily make a sublime knife that would really cost 1000 pounds, the sheath would be extra, I could make it to order and individual spec, it would take me a day. After you factor in machines,materials tools, man hours bills rent tax rates, it could easily add up. Stick 10 people in there and a few more machines. and that £1000 knife costs £500, but its now from a company not a person, outsource some of the manufacture £250 but it isn't to your spec, mass produce £50, but it isn't hand finished. its the principle of mass production, why shoes from a cobbler are expensive, but they are just what you wanted.
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