Why are bushcraft knives, and survival knives so different?
- Thread starter HillBill
- Start date
Im not convinced. And I feel as though that ideology is comparable to throwing your knife at an animal instead of making a spear! (I know you didn't say 6dndo that, but that's the vibe digging with a knife leaves me with).
Besides its Far easier to dig with a digging stick, as you can make them long, thick and suitable with little effort. If there are no sticks then.. Sure dig away. But what are you digging for in such a desolate wasteland? If there are bushes, trees etc, theres likely a reason to dig. If there's nothing up top, its likely there's nothing down below.
A lot of "survival" knives and hatchets seen to be over engineered and more an exercise in engineering. Trying to cover too many bases and scenarios.
For me a knife or hatchet would want to be simple (less to break or loose) and easy to use; the stress of a true survival would be enough to cope with thank you very much. A simple blade that I could maintain and possibly fix in the field would be of more use to me.
There was an interesting feature in SWAT magazine back in the 80's (Mr Fenna may be able to dig it out) where a simple Swedish (I think) bayonet was used as a base for readers mods. All I did to mine (I had one in the collection anyway) was to wrap paracord round the handle and stopper a few things in the hollow handle. (I never got round to shortening the blade to make it more usable).
It still wasn't great but more usable as in it's true form it was really just purposed for sticking in someones ribs.
Any blade to be usable has to be A) to hand, and B) easy to use for a few simple tasks. I'd rather it did a few cutting tasks well than be useless at cutting but also be a blinking awful spear, anchor, grappling hook excetera, excetera.
The two fixed blades I most often carry are a Karesuando Boar and my damascus Woodlore style knife.
(sorry don't have an image of the other on the computer)
They are great for most things on the hill and in the woods (and kitchen) and can be turned to battoning if really pushed; but I hate it and usually carry a billhook or Husqvarna hatchet if I know I'll need one.
So saying the knife I carry most often and so my everyday survival knife is a Opinel and it really does so much, great in a kitchen (some friends kitchen knives are shocking), great in urban life and the most used knife in camp.
Simple classic designs that do so much well and safely.
Is the indigenous British Survival Knife the Bill Hook?
It is certainly a big knife, made tough and durable, suitable for chopping, hacking, slashing AND fine cutting, easy to sharpen, developed for the local environment and the indigenous vegetation types, easy to carry, easy to use, inexpensive, excellent for shelter building, trap building and even (as Mr Budd maintains) buttering your toast.
Some have hooked "points", some straight points, some have cleaver backs, some plain backs (ideal for Ferro rods) but I have yet to see a semi-serrated one or one with a saw back....
It is certainly a big knife, made tough and durable, suitable for chopping, hacking, slashing AND fine cutting, easy to sharpen, developed for the local environment and the indigenous vegetation types, easy to carry, easy to use, inexpensive, excellent for shelter building, trap building and even (as Mr Budd maintains) buttering your toast.
Some have hooked "points", some straight points, some have cleaver backs, some plain backs (ideal for Ferro rods) but I have yet to see a semi-serrated one or one with a saw back....
Plus the few strokes it takes to make a digging stick will save you energy expended in your search digging for food - more reach, leverage and the likes. And energy conservation is a big high one on the list of surviving.
I don't want to get too caught up in this as we could wind up throwing varying survival scenarios back and forth more or less forever.
Just to cover it in it's basic though; why dig? Well the reasons could be as varied as the particular climate/terrain:
1) Searching for edible roots
2) Simply trying to get down a few inches to cooler ground (like a dog digging a bed under the shade0
4) Digging a deeper pool to collect seeping water
50 And on and on...
To be honest, neither making a spear nor throwing the knife at an animal are anything I'd be likely to do. Digging up edible roots or worms would be more productive
But to keep the thread on track, my point is that if it's a true survival situation the principle is K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Sweetheart/Stupid) That means:
1) Don't waste time and energy building Boy Scout type shelters, just get to the leeward side of a natural overhang or put on any appropriate clothing you have.
2) Don't waste energy/time gathering fuel and trying to light a fire for warmth, again, just follow the procedure as above.
3) Don't go fishing, just eat the bait
4) Don't make or carve tools, just use what you have
5) Etc, etc, etc.
Not to say that these are hard and fast rules that apply universally; they obviously don't. But to the extent possible, they are a basic principle.
Daft. If your in any form of woodland finding a stick around an inch or less, suitable for digging will not take 2 minutes, literally. If your not i.e desert- use your hands or if it is a well for water there will most likely be a tree near to old river beds etc. A knife is for cutting- not digging.
And Tilley your right- people want a 'survival' knife to fufill the jobs of many tools. It would be far more sensible to carry say three tools more suited to your chosen environment. An axe chops better than a knife, a saw is better than serrated spines, machetes chop better than knives. So carry- within reason, the tools best suited for the jobs you will most likely need to perform.
But first you'd have to use energy cutting down a tree or sapling. fallen wood is usually rotten or nearly so (here at least)
Then there's the problem of finding any woody plants large enough in a more arid environment (the desert southwest, et al)
"Finding" a stick suitable for digging will take years here. Anything already on the ground is rotten or nearly so. You have to cut down a tree or sapling.
And since when is survival confined to "woodland" environments? Or don't you travel?
But those resources are important to find- if you can't find any wood/ plant material what will your shelter be made out of?
I doubt anyone will sleep under their knife...
Point being if you rely on the knife solely you'll get nowhere- it HAS to be aided by other things to be worth carrying.
Yes I'm coming from a boreal forest viewpoint where a stick the size I'd want to dig with are everywhere and would be down in a single swing from my billhook and a few more if using a fixed blade. Either way I'd still save more energy digging up say sea kale (usually in stony ground) or something like burdock roots. And I wouldn't then have to sit and sharpen out the dings in my blade which is more energy and time.
In a desert (well a sand one there are other types) I may be resorting to a blade but hands as Clouston said may be better.
That's why afterwards I said if your not I.e deserts then Look to dry river beds. Or didn't you read the whole post?
Agreed here; for my particular area these days, a short machete would be my tool of choice if limited to a single cutting tool.
I thought I had, but apparently I missed that. Sorry. That still leaves us with the problem of simply "finding" good wood though. In this climate (swamps and southern woods/forests) it ain't gonna happen.
Yep- but what I don't understand is why do people always seem to be obsessed with it being one tool- it's not difficult. A small hatchet, knife and saw (for northern woodland environments) can weigh less than 1.5 kilos easily and be extremely useful and functional- so why not just carry what is realistically needed?
It's true- but to a degree it may be worth the effort. Digging may well damage you blade badly enough that it would be next to useless for game prep, making of a bow drill set etc- if you did only have one tool, conserving it would be a high priority in my opinion.
A lot of "survival" knives and hatchets seen to be over engineered and more an exercise in engineering. Trying to cover too many bases and scenarios.
For me a knife or hatchet would want to be simple (less to break or loose) and easy to use; the stress of a true survival would be enough to cope with thank you very much. A simple blade that I could maintain and possibly fix in the field would be of more use to me.
There was an interesting feature in SWAT magazine back in the 80's (Mr Fenna may be able to dig it out) where a simple Swedish (I think) bayonet was used as a base for readers mods. All I did to mine (I had one in the collection anyway) was to wrap paracord round the handle and stopper a few things in the hollow handle. (I never got round to shortening the blade to make it more usable).
It still wasn't great but more usable as in it's true form it was really just purposed for sticking in someones ribs.
Any blade to be usable has to be A) to hand, and B) easy to use for a few simple tasks. I'd rather it did a few cutting tasks well than be useless at cutting but also be a blinking awful spear, anchor, grappling hook excetera, excetera.
The two fixed blades I most often carry are a Karesuando Boar and my damascus Woodlore style knife.
(sorry don't have an image of the other on the computer)
They are great for most things on the hill and in the woods (and kitchen) and can be turned to battoning if really pushed; but I hate it and usually carry a billhook or Husqvarna hatchet if I know I'll need one.
So saying the knife I carry most often and so my everyday survival knife is a Opinel and it really does so much, great in a kitchen (some friends kitchen knives are shocking), great in urban life and the most used knife in camp.
Simple classic designs that do so much well and safely.
I converted several of the bayonets (cheap as chips in those days) my article (SWAT May 1991) was the originator of the challenge
I generally shortened the blade from 9.5" to 6.5", wrap the handle in paracord and make a collection of "survival Kit" items to fit in the handle.
The stud was ground off, as was the muzzle ring and the handle capped with a plastic wine bottle "cork".
The first one used a sheath adapted from an "Explora Survival knife" (even then advising that that knife was junk).
The original conversion was made with a short drop point with a swaged back while later ones had more of a Bowie and sheaths made from webbing reinforced with a cut prof plastic liner.
I got a lot of stick for thinking I could improve a classic bayonet to make it a survival knife and with the price of those bayonets being now well above the £10 - £17 that you could get them for then I regret not keeping a couple...
My personal model has long ago been sold or traded ... but the Golok machete that I reviewed in the Jan 1990 issue of Swat is still in constant use after nearly a quarter of a century of use....
Last edited:
My shelter (in the desert southwest) at night will be the stars. In the hot daylight, it will be whatever shade I find; the shady side od a hill, a small bush (way to small to have anything remotely big enough to be called a "stick") and I won't "make" anything out of it; I'll just use the knife to dig a cool spot under it.
Up to a point I agree with you here as well. But 1.5 kilos is an awful lot of weigh in a bush plane.
I converted several of the bayonets (cheap as chips in those days) my article (SWAT May 1991 was the originator of the challenge
I generally shortened the blade from 9.5" to 6.5", wrap the handle in paracord and make a collection of "survival Kit items to fit in the handle.
The stud was ground off, as was the muzzle ring and the handle capped with a plastic wine bottle "cork".
The first one used a sheath adapted from an "Explora Survival knife" (even then advising that that knife was junk).
The original conversion was made with a short drop point with a swaged back while later ones had more of a Bowie and sheaths made from webbing reinforced with a cut prof plastic liner.
I got a lot of stick for thinking I could improve a classic bayonet to make it a survival knife and with the price of those bayonets being now well above the £10 - £17 that you could get them for then I regret not keeping a couple...
My personal model has long ago been sold or traded ... but the Golok machete that I reviewed in the Jan 1990 issue of Swat is still in constant use after nearly a quarter of a century of use....
I always knew you were destined for greatness!
Mine is stored away in a box and last time I saw it was still in great shape, the grease I'd slathered it in for storage had worked. It was a good article and made folk actually think about there gear and what was good/bad about it, rather than the normal "Buy this and your problems are solved". We should dig them out and post some pictures, Might be nice to have a similar "group make/conversion" where we all start off with the same base model of something. It certainly got a lot of attention in the mag at the time.
