Why are bushcraft knives, and survival knives so different?

[Clouston98]

Up to a point I agree with you here as well. But 1.5 kilos is an awful lot of weigh in a bush plane.

That's true. But that's a rough weight of what I use. If up you used a fiskars type hatchet (hollow plastic handle) it would probably end up weighing a lot less.

 

[santaman2000]

It's true- but to a degree it may be worth the effort. Digging may well damage you blade badly enough that it would be next to useless for game prep, making of a bow drill set etc- if you did only have one tool, conserving it would be a high priority in my opinion.

Again, partially agreed. But game prep and bow drills aren't something I'd do in a survival situation.

1) As I said earlier, I'd simply eat the smaller worms, grubs, etc. and forget the fantasy of hunting game in said situation.
2) rather than building a fire I'd find a natural shelter and put on whatever appropriate clothing I had
3) In the unlikely event I truly needed a fire I'd use my matches or lighter (it goes back to your comment about "why not carry what you'll really need?")

 

[Clouston98]

Again, partially agreed. But game prep and bow drills aren't something I'd do in a survival situation.

1) As I said earlier, I'd simply eat the smaller worms, grubs, etc. and forget the fantasy of hunting game in said situation.
2) rather than building a fire I'd find a natural shelter and put on whatever appropriate clothing I had
3) In the unlikely event I truly needed a fire I'd use my matches or lighter (it goes back to your comment about "why not carry what you'll really need?")

Very good point on the matches- I'd close a firesteel on that one but it's a hell of a lot more practical than the bow drill! That was meaning more in the situation of what you may use a typical 'survival' knife for. I'd never hunt as it's unrealistic without a firearm/ catapult. A deadfall trap- or a snare is something I'd certainly be doing. Snares require no effort. A shoelace or piece of cordage you have, the correct knot and set it could provide a good meal. Up here it has been below -5 when I've been out before- and I obviously had sleeping gear. However if I did not I'd be lying right next to a fire with some form of shelter behind me.

 

[santaman2000]

.....In a desert (well a sand one there are other types) I may be resorting to a blade but hands as Clouston said may be better.

And a canteen cup would work still better. But the subject of the OP is of a survival knife Mark is commissioned to make. We know nothing of the circumstances or terrain the customer envisions for it, so we must assume it will should be capable of varied tasks in varied environments.

 

[Clouston98]

I always knew you were destined for greatness!
Mine is stored away in a box and last time I saw it was still in great shape, the grease I'd slathered it in for storage had worked. It was a good article and made folk actually think about there gear and what was good/bad about it, rather than the normal "Buy this and your problems are solved". We should dig them out and post some pictures, Might be nice to have a similar "group make/conversion" where we all start off with the same base model of something. It certainly got a lot of attention in the mag at the time.

Great idea! What about a mora companion robust? Cheap and reliable enough- see how different people would change it. Grinds, handle etc. Could be good .

 

[TeeDee]

Great idea! What about a mora companion robust? Cheap and reliable enough- see how different people would change it. Grinds, handle etc. Could be good .

Maybe a good idea to create a new thread now?

Try and keep this one on track for HillBills benefit.?

 

[JonathanD]

Yep- but what I don't understand is why do people always seem to be obsessed with it being one tool- it's not difficult. A small hatchet, knife and saw (for northern woodland environments) can weigh less than 1.5 kilos easily and be extremely useful and functional- so why not just carry what is realistically needed?

Because that, by definition is why it is called a survival knife. Loads of people who look at buying such a knife won't be into bushcraft and woodland environments so the knife has to cater for the rest of the knife buying community too who just aren't into camping and carrying other tools. Mark is asking what features a survival knife should have so he can sell them labelled as such. But somehow this thread has become derailed. A knife will be used for digging in arid barren environments like a desert and the design should recognise this if it is to be successfull.

Rob Bayley achieved success with his S4 and Stu Mitchell with his Secare because of the features they possess beyond northern bushcraft type tasks. Mark needs to assess what they are.

 

[Clouston98]

Because that, by definition is why it is called a survival knife. Loads of people who look at buying such a knife won't be into bushcraft and woodland environments so the knife has to cater for the rest of the knife buying community too who just aren't into camping and carrying other tools. Mark is asking what features a survival knife should have so he can sell them labelled as such. But somehow this thread has become derailed. A knife will be used for digging in arid barren environments like a desert and the design should recognise this if it is to be successfull.

Rob Bayley achieved success with his S4 and Stu Mitchell with his Secare because of the features they possess beyond northern bushcraft type tasks. Mark needs to assess what they are.

'Tis a very good point, so for me a 'survival' knife would fall into the category of 3.5-5 inch blade, full tang of 3-4 mm thick, I love wood so I'd stick with that for handles- stabilised iron wood- strong and hardwearing. Large ergonomic handle. Scandi for me- but I'd be tempted by full flat. And due to recent experiences I'd likely go 52100 bearing steel.

Sorry for any derailment Mark .

 

[Clouston98]

Maybe a good idea to create a new thread now?

Try and keep this one on track for HillBills benefit.?

Yeah- once again, sorry for any derailment. I kind of blabber on and end up elsewhere.

 

[sunndog]

And a canteen cup would work still better. But the subject of the OP is of a survival knife Mark is commissioned to make. We know nothing of the circumstances or terrain the customer envisions for it, so we must assume it will should be capable of varied tasks in varied environments.

Because that, by definition is why it is called a survival knife. Loads of people who look at buying such a knife won't be into bushcraft and woodland environments so the knife has to cater for the rest of the knife buying community too who just aren't into camping and carrying other tools. Mark is asking what features a survival knife should have so he can sell them labelled as such. But somehow this thread has become derailed. A knife will be used for digging in arid barren environments like a desert and the design should recognise this if it is to be successfull.

Rob Bayley achieved success with his S4 and Stu Mitchell with his Secare because of the features they possess beyond northern bushcraft type tasks. Mark needs to assess what they are.

agreed 100%

 

[HillBill]

Thanks for all the input guys,,,, not had chance to read through it all yet.... but i will do this evening.

 

[TeeDee]

Just throwing a thought out there.

A lot of survival knives seem to be how I'd term as 'long in the blade and short in the handle'. For me a Knife would need to be small enough to be packed/carried on a regular basis but large enough to use for a variety of tasks with a moderate level of success on tasks related to Survival or make/create site procured tools to succeed at tasks relate to survival.
That seems to go against the grain as most survival knifes seem to be in the 'larger is better' camp , but for me I'd want something I would be carrying most days and to me that means weight and size considerations.

 

[HillBill]

I was aiming at a 5" blade for my first one.

 

[TeeDee]

I was aiming at a 5" blade for my first one.

Sounds perfect.

 

[cbr6fs]

Up to a point I agree with you here as well. But 1.5 kilos is an awful lot of weigh in a bush plane.

Agreed

That's roughly the weight of my 2 man tent and sleeping bag.

Small hatchet, knife and saw or a tent and sleeping bag, i know which i'd sooner carry if a "survival" type scenario occurred.

 

[Squidders]

A bushcraft knife helps you craft things in the bush. Things like wooden tools, shelter, cordage and the like.
A survival knife helps you survive things. Things like encounters with angry people out to hinder your survival.

 

[forrestdweller]

He did take it to Arnhem Land. Is that the episode you were thinking of? The environment is a load drier there, even though it has swamps and mangrovey type areas.

I have NOT Ben to Arnhem Land but to nearby areas and I know from experience that wooden handles and leather sheaths will not fare well during the wet season up there....

 

[faca]

I'm not an expert but for me bushcraft knife is good To carve wood=scandy edge+thin and pointy blade+no longer blade than 4"+confortable handle. In the other side survival knife form me must have good chopping capacities from here the longer blade you are happy To carry ;-)

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Just been shown this knife - http://www.punisherknife.com/specialed.html

My immediate reaction was "what the hell is the point in that?" followed by *HOW MUCH*?!?!?

I can't actually work out what, if anything this would be useful for... Admittedly the price is largely due to it being a movie tie in. But still. Why does it have a choile type thing in the middle of the spine between the saw bit and the rest of the blade? Why is it so big? why? why? why?

Sorry, had to share when I saw it.

J

 

[British Red]

Because its a movie prop? Its neither a survival nor a Bushcraft knife, thats for sure