Hmm I'll have to look closer. It was a leather sheath and he quickly drew it to cut something despite having a machete in the other hand. Was watching a whole bundle so will relook. (Not putting £50 on it though - too poor for bets but will happily own up if wrong. Give me a couple of days to re-watch them).What episode is that. I will put £50 on the line right now and say he never hasI got that info straight from the horses mouth. He takes it into dry savannah and arid coastal environments, but he will never take his woodlore to a tropical rainforest.
Why are bushcraft knives, and survival knives so different?
- Thread starter HillBill
- Start date
But what I'm getting at is when does that situation arise. Cutting people from a car, I don't carry a survival knife in case I see an accident.
Dont think I'm being argumentative or obtuse in my comments.
Dont think I'm being argumentative or obtuse in my comments.
I would say a survival knife needs to be able to cope with a more varied environment ie could be down in a forest or then in a town centre.
Also the user wouldn't use it as kindly as a bushcrafter ie hit the knife with a rock to break some wood down or even use it to cut out a section of a downed aircraft!!
Also the user wouldn't use it as kindly as a bushcrafter ie hit the knife with a rock to break some wood down or even use it to cut out a section of a downed aircraft!!
He used to carry the old Frosts Clipper in the rainforest. But honestly, if you asked him if he takes his own knife into that environment, he'll tell you himself that the handle and steel combo wouldn't last two days. Especially in a leather sheath.
Maybe an urban survival knife would be more like a small keyring Swiss army type knife or a multi tool as it helps you survive the everyday rigors of life in the urban jungle - tightening screws, cutting your nails, the handy little push out pen!
It happens in countries with less harsh knife laws. Victorinox published a book on actual emergency situations where their knives had been used and car crashes and aeronautical accidents were in there, and the humble SAK performed amazing feats and saved lives.
I agree, I'd say the best emergency tool for daily carry would be something like a Leatherman. It's something that unlike a survival knife, could be carried daily and not left at home when you needed it.
In a true survival situation probably be glad of any piece of metal with a sharp edge you can get your hands on.
Think there are knive that do cross over. For instance the Fallkniven F1, designed as a pilot's survival knife.
Think there are knive that do cross over. For instance the Fallkniven F1, designed as a pilot's survival knife.
Now the F1 is a classic survival knife and is bought by many bushcrafters and is great. But would anyone take a bushcraft specific knife and successfully market it in a survivalist role. I don't think it would work the other way around, and that is the crux of the thing if Mark is making a survival knife. They are different, and er... usually less organic and lack any beauty or grace.
The current RAF issue survival knife (for fast jet pilots) is a Victorinox similar to the Hunter - as GB stated its very compact for including in a survival vest (amongst other kit).
I did the basic military survival course last year & this was the only knife we were allowed to use. Their not bad tools to be fair but having been trained previously with a simple fixed blade 'Bushcraft' knife & Laplander saw I found it performed poorly. Ultimately the Victorinox did achieve the tasks but I could have done them quicker, safer & to a better finish with a Bushcraft knife like a Mora. Most of knife tasks we were required to do were the same as on a basic Bushcraft course (feathersticks, gutting fish etc.)
Whilst In Afghanistan I shared a room with a Royal Marine who carried a huge survival knife. I think potentially he could have used it for self defence (a survival task) but it would have been pretty useless in a wilderness situation or on a 'survival' course. I think the tool has to match the task - most of the ESSE / RAT knives aren't bad Bushcraft tools but they also have pommels for smashing glass & sheaths that won't catch on parachute rigging lines, activities not usually covered on a Bushcraft course!
I did the basic military survival course last year & this was the only knife we were allowed to use. Their not bad tools to be fair but having been trained previously with a simple fixed blade 'Bushcraft' knife & Laplander saw I found it performed poorly. Ultimately the Victorinox did achieve the tasks but I could have done them quicker, safer & to a better finish with a Bushcraft knife like a Mora. Most of knife tasks we were required to do were the same as on a basic Bushcraft course (feathersticks, gutting fish etc.)
Whilst In Afghanistan I shared a room with a Royal Marine who carried a huge survival knife. I think potentially he could have used it for self defence (a survival task) but it would have been pretty useless in a wilderness situation or on a 'survival' course. I think the tool has to match the task - most of the ESSE / RAT knives aren't bad Bushcraft tools but they also have pommels for smashing glass & sheaths that won't catch on parachute rigging lines, activities not usually covered on a Bushcraft course!
The labels are probably unhelpful. I think there is a difference between a Bushcraft knife and a "hard use utility" knife. Jon has it about right for me - in a "Hard utility" knife, I certainly want more rust proofing than I would on a Bushcraft knife, a different grind, a different sheath, and above all, a different length. I trash knives out here on a regular basis - in a survival situation I need more from a knife than a Mora or Hultafors can give.
Have had a quick scan through the programs again on FF and I think I was wrong and you were right. (May have been an Outback episode as it can be a bit rainforesty.) See I should never have doubted a herpetologist
He did take it to Arnhem Land. Is that the episode you were thinking of? The environment is a load drier there, even though it has swamps and mangrovey type areas.
Think it must've been an Oz one. Have been working through the cannon of his work the last few nights and it's kind've melded together.
Chances are you'll never have a knife. But as Mark is designing a survival knife then it needs to meet more requirements than a bushy, otherwise he'll just have designed another bushcraft knife
or for me I'd be carrying a slippie or a SAK
Survival knives come with a miasma of cheap quality, are often gimmicky things with hollow handles, full of carp, that break if you look at them the wrong way.....or they are Klingon-ised to appeal to the tacti-cool seekers.
There's one caveat, to save sharpening they're often made from a too brittle steel, and the blade chips or snaps
Any decent knife will do for real survival, and certainly for bushcraft. I have ones both with wooden scales and micarta ones, I have leather stacked and birch bark stacked ones too.
I use them all, and I use them all in wet and muddy and among soil and plants and I still use them for carving as well.....and I can and do use them for hides and kitchen stuff too. Sharp enough and learn to use them. It's not rocket science, our ancestors managed with stone for heaven sake.
In all the years I've been using knives I have damaged three. The scales came off a mini Canadian, the tip broke off an opinel, and I delaminated a polar. That's it. I could still have used any of them if in dire need.
If your knife rusts, clean it up, pdq. It's not a drawer queen, it's a blooming good tool.
Ah, but, they've become the bling of the bushcraft or survival world have our shinies
Big knives, little knives....they all work; it's what can you use effectively that matters, I reckon.
cheers,
Toddy
There's one caveat, to save sharpening they're often made from a too brittle steel, and the blade chips or snaps
Any decent knife will do for real survival, and certainly for bushcraft. I have ones both with wooden scales and micarta ones, I have leather stacked and birch bark stacked ones too.
I use them all, and I use them all in wet and muddy and among soil and plants and I still use them for carving as well.....and I can and do use them for hides and kitchen stuff too. Sharp enough and learn to use them. It's not rocket science, our ancestors managed with stone for heaven sake.
In all the years I've been using knives I have damaged three. The scales came off a mini Canadian, the tip broke off an opinel, and I delaminated a polar. That's it. I could still have used any of them if in dire need.
If your knife rusts, clean it up, pdq. It's not a drawer queen, it's a blooming good tool.
Ah, but, they've become the bling of the bushcraft or survival world have our shinies
Big knives, little knives....they all work; it's what can you use effectively that matters, I reckon.
cheers,
Toddy
I think "bush tools" (Skookum, RJ Evans and also yours Mark Hill which is still for sale on your website! http://www.markhillknives.com/#!available-now/csdg)
combine the best of both worlds: nice scandi grind that works wood like butter, strong micarta or G10, 3 mm to 4 mm thick blade, buttplate...
A survival knife should be easy to work with, easy to keep a good edge on and have a comforabtle handle, I hate knives on steroids that can't cut even a piece of paracord.
You are already pretty close with your take on the bush tool imo HillBill, especially with the orange handle.
One thing I really like about the sheath of one of the ESEE brand (I think RAT3) is the elastic thing that you can wrap over the butt, gives you more confidence in carrying a knife while doing bumpy activities that don't allow you to check your knife every 3 minutes (snow scooter, dogsledding,...) That is one things I really miss in most of the sheaths I own today.
combine the best of both worlds: nice scandi grind that works wood like butter, strong micarta or G10, 3 mm to 4 mm thick blade, buttplate...
A survival knife should be easy to work with, easy to keep a good edge on and have a comforabtle handle, I hate knives on steroids that can't cut even a piece of paracord.
You are already pretty close with your take on the bush tool imo HillBill, especially with the orange handle.
One thing I really like about the sheath of one of the ESEE brand (I think RAT3) is the elastic thing that you can wrap over the butt, gives you more confidence in carrying a knife while doing bumpy activities that don't allow you to check your knife every 3 minutes (snow scooter, dogsledding,...) That is one things I really miss in most of the sheaths I own today.
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Yes, would be my immediate thought. You're in a survival situation, you're cold, you're wet, and you want to get that shelter up and ready. So you're not perhaps using it with as much care as you could. This leads to you perhaps dropping it, hitting stones that are behind your work, etc...
I've never been in a true survival situation so can't judge for sure, so this is all a bit of conjecture.
You see, one of the main things I use my bush knife for (svord peasant mini) is food prep, and food eating. It's one of the reasons I prefer a thinner blade for my knives. I have been pondering my dream bush knife a lot recently and have not managed to come up with a design I am happy with.
You see this is my main view on a survival knife. It's something issued by a military to it's troops for their use in survival and E&E settings. It's role is to spend 99.99999% of it's time attached to an ejector seat. Then it has to keep you alive until the Calvary gets there. That at least is my view. Others may disagree.
For years I have carried a leatherman wave tool, only recently tending to leave it home in favour of the svord as a legal EDC. the Leatherman CS4 as a EDC legal knife is on my shopping list. The knife and saw combo is ideal to me.
So to answer the question of why a survival knife and a bush knife differ in design: they have a different purpose.
Julia
