Mine gets a pretty good signal even in summer under the canopy. I've uploaded my tracks to Memory Map later and been surprised by the accuracy of the trail. I did buy a high gain external antenna just in case though.
Which GPS?
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Mine gets a pretty good signal even in summer under the canopy. I've uploaded my tracks to Memory Map later and been surprised by the accuracy of the trail. I did buy a high gain external antenna just in case though.
If you do get the etrex, you can get the data cable for connection to the GPS for about a tenner , don't buy Garmin's own or you will in my experience pay more for a cable that works less wel.
USB to serial is £13 at gpsbitz.co.uk - may be better elsewhere, but I couldn't find it.
I have to say, though, the serial interface is mind-bogglingly slow when uploading maps compared to the plain USB.
But you don't do it often.
I have to say, though, the serial interface is mind-bogglingly slow when uploading maps compared to the plain USB.
But you don't do it often.
Map and compass takes skill and knowledge - lets see how well you do when your in the middle of nowhere and you drop your GPS down a gully, loose it or run out of battery power.
The greatest skill you can have is knowledge. Knowledge to survive and to navigate yourself - if your knowledge is not your own but comes from your battery opperated friend then i am afraid you know nothing and should not be in an environment where you need to know those things.
I have a GPS but rarely use it except for Geocaching - i also do Orienteering races so no GPS allowd.
That's not a fair criticism: There are plenty of people who use GPS's for
convenience and the extra features that a map and compass won't give
you (like an accurate distance travelled, current speed, average speed,
house numbers, nearest bar/hotel, etc).
To turn it around: Let's see how well you do in the middle of the desert
with a map and a compass, or pretty much anywhere in thick fog.
Or lose your map and compass, or drop them down a gully...
GPS's take skill and knowledge, too.
Just playing Devil's Advocaat
No i completely agree with what you are saying - and as i said in my first post I have and use a GPS.
If i want distance traveled or want to know speed of travel then it is turned on and attached to my rucksack but i do not check it unless i stop or until the end of the trek.
Unless you have a predefined route programmed in to your GPS or have a GPS capable of mapping a GPS would not be much help in fog or the desert!
All i was saying is that anyone who relies solely on a GPS places themselves and anyone with them in potential risk.
I would always advise anyone who uses GPS to also have a map and compass in their bag just in case.
I know the benefits of GPS - hense why i have one but in doing anything related to survival it is more about knowledge then ability to rely on technical equipment.
I enjoy using GPS both in my sailing and walking but would never rely completely on it.
If you do yacht sailing courses they teach you how to navigate with maps and the army still learn maps and compass navigation skills. Fighter pilots also have maps on them incase they go down.
You only need to look at people who are trained to high standards and if they do not rely solely on technology then i don't see any reason why we should.
If i want distance traveled or want to know speed of travel then it is turned on and attached to my rucksack but i do not check it unless i stop or until the end of the trek.
Unless you have a predefined route programmed in to your GPS or have a GPS capable of mapping a GPS would not be much help in fog or the desert!
All i was saying is that anyone who relies solely on a GPS places themselves and anyone with them in potential risk.
I would always advise anyone who uses GPS to also have a map and compass in their bag just in case.
I know the benefits of GPS - hense why i have one but in doing anything related to survival it is more about knowledge then ability to rely on technical equipment.
I enjoy using GPS both in my sailing and walking but would never rely completely on it.
If you do yacht sailing courses they teach you how to navigate with maps and the army still learn maps and compass navigation skills. Fighter pilots also have maps on them incase they go down.
You only need to look at people who are trained to high standards and if they do not rely solely on technology then i don't see any reason why we should.
And I agree with you! (Gosh, isn't this civilised ) At least, mostly. I just felt the need (as a
technophile) to point out that a GPS down a gully is equally useless as a map and compass
down a crevasse.
A GPS without a map (loaded in it) isn't an awful lot of good but not completely useless.
You can back-track out of trouble if that is an option.
And in a city you can make a waypoint as you leave your hotel in a strange town, get as
lost and as drunk as you like, and it will always tell you that your bed is this many metres
in that direction. Or you can waypoint your camp in the forest and always find it again.
It's only common sense to know how to operate if the GPS fails, but where I am, you just
follow the footpaths back to the carpark Worst comes to the worst, you keep walking
until you find a road.
In practice, GPS's don't fail that often, and if the batteries run out, you put another set in.
Running out of batteries is in the same category for me as running out of petrol while
crossing the Sahara. You deserve to die. Darwin said so.
You rely on technology not failing (e.g. brakes) when you drive to wherever you are going
to use your GPS. You might also have flown there on a fly-by-wire jet. The difference with a
GPS is that you are not dead seconds after it fails. So you are right to point out that you
then have a chance to use your map and compass skills. Or your back-up GPS.
) At least, mostly. I just felt the need (as a technophile) to point out that a GPS down a gully is equally useless as a map and compass
down a crevasse.
A GPS without a map (loaded in it) isn't an awful lot of good but not completely useless.
You can back-track out of trouble if that is an option.
And in a city you can make a waypoint as you leave your hotel in a strange town, get as
lost and as drunk as you like, and it will always tell you that your bed is this many metres
in that direction. Or you can waypoint your camp in the forest and always find it again.
It's only common sense to know how to operate if the GPS fails, but where I am, you just
follow the footpaths back to the carpark
Worst comes to the worst, you keep walking until you find a road.
In practice, GPS's don't fail that often, and if the batteries run out, you put another set in.
Running out of batteries is in the same category for me as running out of petrol while
crossing the Sahara. You deserve to die. Darwin said so.
You rely on technology not failing (e.g. brakes) when you drive to wherever you are going
to use your GPS. You might also have flown there on a fly-by-wire jet. The difference with a
GPS is that you are not dead seconds after it fails. So you are right to point out that you
then have a chance to use your map and compass skills. Or your back-up GPS.
actually anybody got any tips on cheap gps units? i mean cheap its going to be used for checking where i am as apposed to finding anywhere (thats what a map and compass are for after all)
pete
pete
We use Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx's at work and they're really good when loaded up with all the topo maps, just make sure you calibrate the compass before use each day. I was on a recent trip to Stewart Island (at the bottom of NZ) which is like "the land that time forgot". My GPS compass and regular compass were telling me different things and really messing with my head until I ignored the GPS compass and just looked at the "goto" page and walked along the line and looked at my regular compass for directions. I thought I was in an NZ equivalent of the Bermuda Triangle for a while!
My own GPS is a Garmin Geko. Cheap as chips but a bl**dy brilliant little unit and so simple and quick to use!
My own GPS is a Garmin Geko. Cheap as chips but a bl**dy brilliant little unit and so simple and quick to use!
For a start, a compass will only show you where North is if you know how to use one properly, if you don't actually know where you are already, you shouldn't even be outside your own home.
I do carry a GPS in my bergen, to pinpoint and record locations or features that are not shown on maps occasionally, but they are no substitute for knowing where you are and where you are going.
Many GPS units flunk out in woodlands for a start and quite a few struggle in steep valleys too. A map, compass and that grey goo between your ears are much more reliable.
I don't know what the US maps are like but if you can't locate yourself using a compass and a decent map then you deserve to be crow bait.
I've used various GPS units for years mainly for recording biological data particulalry for when surveying for mammals. I started off with a very good large brick shaped Magellan and then had an etrex and gecko; now I use a Garmin Oregon 300 (MPWMBO xmas pressie ).
What I have noticed in the last few years is there seems to be a lot more accuracy when using them, it appears that the US DOD who manage the system I believe, have made it almost fully available with little variation in signal. For example this morning I was surveying for badgers on an urban site about to be developed and I had previously recorded a satelite set and had found another but for the life of me could not find the first one previously recorded due to the site being covered n scrub and rubble etc. So I jusr pressed the "go to" function on the Oregon and it showed the way and I was literally standing less than 4 meters from it, I stepeed another couple of paces and it stated that I had arrived. So an accuracy of around 2 meters is awesome for what I use them for. In the past I've recorded as much variation as 150 meters between different GPS units when used for surveying!
I have the full topo map for the UK on the Oregon and it is awesome to use, it will even better when they release all of the uk OS maps for upload to the gps!But hey an ordinary basic GPS is what used most in the past and they all were pretty good although the GECKO I found was a bit slow in getting a fix, it did the trick eventually.
).What I have noticed in the last few years is there seems to be a lot more accuracy when using them, it appears that the US DOD who manage the system I believe, have made it almost fully available with little variation in signal. For example this morning I was surveying for badgers on an urban site about to be developed and I had previously recorded a satelite set and had found another but for the life of me could not find the first one previously recorded due to the site being covered n scrub and rubble etc. So I jusr pressed the "go to" function on the Oregon and it showed the way and I was literally standing less than 4 meters from it, I stepeed another couple of paces and it stated that I had arrived. So an accuracy of around 2 meters is awesome for what I use them for. In the past I've recorded as much variation as 150 meters between different GPS units when used for surveying!
I have the full topo map for the UK on the Oregon and it is awesome to use, it will even better when they release all of the uk OS maps for upload to the gps!But hey an ordinary basic GPS is what used most in the past and they all were pretty good although the GECKO I found was a bit slow in getting a fix, it did the trick eventually.
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I used the wee yellow gecko for winter hillwalking/munro bagging. Great bit of kit, although poor in commercially planted forrests. It's tiny and although I use an Etrex cammo now, I still have lots of waypoints of climbs and MTb routes from all over the alps and france.
I have used my MWG Zinc2 phone for geocaching but not hills yet. It has a long battery power and google maps, if you get a signal, but has fugawi/memory map and a built in sirf3 chipset for a no signal area.
Nick
I have used my MWG Zinc2 phone for geocaching but not hills yet. It has a long battery power and google maps, if you get a signal, but has fugawi/memory map and a built in sirf3 chipset for a no signal area.
Nick
Best GPS I've ever used
Very neat.
But how exactly do you use just that to get your position on the globe?
Very neat.
But how exactly do you use just that to get your position on the globe?
Ahh now that's a secret system called "orienting map to ground" it involves using complex tools called eyes and brain
Not really.....I hunt deer in a swamp area that is flat, no rivers, no hills or other landforms to orient oneself to the map. I've learned to use maps, and they are a pain. And speaking of maps, my gps holds enough maps to cover all of New England. Try buying that many topo maps; you would need an extra room in your house!
Really, go into a swamp. Get lost. Now pinpoint your location on a paper map. Or out on the plains. Or on the ocean.....Have you ever used a map in a vast, flat, trackless area?
The ancient mariners were pretty happy to have the cronograph invented so they could pinpoint thier longitude while at sea; even 300 years ago they knew that without knowing ones coords that a map was of zero value while lost at sea. Calling a GPS a "gizmo" shows how some old farts need to wake up and smell the 21st century. How many cruise ships, oil tankers, military craft, and airliners use GPS? ALL OF THEM!
(my apologies to old farts)
Ahh now that's a secret system called "orienting map to ground" it involves using complex tools called eyes and brain
OK, you didn't mention anything about maps.
So if I get a compass and a complete set of maps for the whole of the world
and provided it's daylight, and it's not foggy, and I'm not at sea, or down a
canyon, or in the woods, or on a plain-looking beach or lakeside or river, or in a
generic set of mountains, or in a desert, or on a snow-field, or any other
relatively featureless place, and I have enough food and water to hold out
for weeks while I check all those maps, then I can throw away my GPS?
Cool
How much does a set of maps for the world weigh? And cost?
forestwalker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
GPS is a wonderful invention.As long as they work they will give you your position, with sometimes stunning accuracy. But that is the rub. If you have the map uploaded into it, and walk out into that swamp, winter tundra or what-have-you, and the batteries run out, it is so cold that the display no longer work, or it is broken you better have the skills/equipment to find your way home without it.
A map and compass can go wrong as well (but perhaps not as easilly as the GPS, my old Silva 15 has survived things that would kill even mil-specced GPSes), but since you have to do the do your navigation as a running task you are far less likely to be totally lost.
It is the same with the EPIB sets. Are they an excuse for not carrying a first aid kit? No. Does that mean they are useless junk? No.
A map and compass can go wrong as well (but perhaps not as easilly as the GPS, my old Silva 15 has survived things that would kill even mil-specced GPSes), but since you have to do the do your navigation as a running task you are far less likely to be totally lost.
It is the same with the EPIB sets. Are they an excuse for not carrying a first aid kit? No. Does that mean they are useless junk? No.
From the Brecon Mountain Rescue log:
Call to search for a couple who had been navigating by guidebook until they became disorientated in thick cloud and their map & compass blew away.
I don't think many people on BCUK would suggest heading out with only a GPS for navigation, but everytime I hear someone say "ah, but what happens if your GPS doesn't work" I'm reminded that maps have a tendency to catch the wind and can easily disappear on you down a gully.
A backup GPS in your pack with a few key waypoints marked can make all the difference.
Call to search for a couple who had been navigating by guidebook until they became disorientated in thick cloud and their map & compass blew away.
I don't think many people on BCUK would suggest heading out with only a GPS for navigation, but everytime I hear someone say "ah, but what happens if your GPS doesn't work" I'm reminded that maps have a tendency to catch the wind and can easily disappear on you down a gully.
A backup GPS in your pack with a few key waypoints marked can make all the difference.
As I heard or read somewhere that if you are lost then turn south and walk for a few hours and you will hit a road. That was for in the uk the more bigger places wil be different.
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