UK Knife law

[Tipi]

was recently told by a friend that the law on knives was changing / been changed. any one else heard about this or does the following link still stand?

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

"The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you may carry a knife with a blade length of 3.0" or less so long as it is capable of folding. That means no fixed blade knives. But use your loaf - a knife has no place at a football match, in a pub, nightclub or school and becomes an offensive weapon in these circumstances in just the same way as a screwdriver, or any other innanimate tool."

apologies if this has been posted before but i must hav missed it and havnt been able to find it.

Many thanks
TP

 

[HillBill]

You can carry a non locking folding knife with a blade of 3 inch or less at any time without a reason. this is known as every day carry or EDC. I have a swiss army knife on my keys all the time.

You can carry any knife with a good reason for doing so including machetes, fixed blade and lock knives.

It is ILLEGAL to carry a lock knife or fixed blade knife WITHOUT good reason for doing so.

If you are out shrafting that is a good reaon to carry any blade.

 

[Walks with dogs]

Depends what you are carrying , why and the circumstances in which you do so. At the moment, to the best of my knowledge, the advice on that link is sound. That 3 inch swiss army knife ( I have one on my key ring) is a legal object to carry . However, should the carrier have any intent to use it as a weapon it becomes an offence under the offensive weapons legislation.

If you clarified your situation it would make it easier to give advice.

 

[John Fenna]

The bit about the locking blade is - as I understand it - only one judges ruling and the actual LAW does not mention locking blades...
BUT
I will not want to argue this with your average PC....
I carry a Leatherman Wave - which locks - as do some of our local constabulary and I think my need is as real as theirs....
I also carry a sub 3" cutting edge knife without locking device.
The Leatherman costs £60 plus the "legal" folder cost under £4 - which would a miscreant be more likely to "use and lose"?
Our laws are a bit daft realy!

 

[durulz]

You can carry a non locking folding knife with a blade of 3 inch or less at any time without a reason. this is known as every day carry or EDC. I have a swiss army knife on my keys all the time.

You can carry any knife with a good reason for doing so including machetes, fixed blade and lock knives.

It is ILLEGAL to carry a lock knife or fixed blade knife WITHOUT good reason for doing so.

If you are out shrafting that is a good reaon to carry any blade.

Yes, this is how I understood the law to be.
That is, all items (not just knives or bladed tools)are both legal and illegal at the same time. Ironically.
If you have a good reason for carrying the item, then that is fine. If you do not have a good reason then it becomes an offensive weapon and it's not so fine - be it knife, machete, screwdriver etc.
What you do have to be aware of though, is that it is up to the court to decide if you have a 'good reason'. Not you!
That said, most knife laws and enforcement of them to is to stop townies walking around our cities with weapons unnecessarily. Most police officers and magistrates have a reasonable amount of common sense and would not interfere with responsible people who act responsibly with such tools - that is, keep them out of sight from the public, put them away when done with them etc, and have an obvious use for them. Despite the odd sensational story, most law enforcement is done with a dollop of common sense. Most.

 

[gregorach]

The bit about the locking blade is - as I understand it - only one judges ruling and the actual LAW does not mention locking blades...

It's established legal precedent, and I'm pretty sure it's been upheld by the Court of Appeal. According to the principle of stare decisis, that means it can only be overturned by appeal to a higher court - basically the House of Lords, and possibly the EU Court of Human Rights. I don't much fancy anybody's chances with either.

 

[SimonM]

One of the other football Dad's is a PS and we have had many a chat about knife law whilst the lads warm up.

His advice has always been, if you look like you are dressed for the outdoors, carrying a rucsac etc, you would have to be very unlucky to be challenged about carrying a knife or other sharps. But, even when dressed and equipped for the outdoors, carry your knife discretly, out of sight of the general public.

Having said that, his advice if stopped, is NEVER get stroppy. Stay calm and polite, and explain why you are carrying your tool of choice. If you get stroppy, the officer will usually take things to the next level.

My concern was that an over zealous officer could confiscate & destroy my pride & joy, Stuart Mitchell knife, and have it destroyed. This is not possible unless I sign a waiver apparently. Choosing not to sign the waiver would probably end up in a court appearnce though, with you having to justify why you were carrying on the day.

Simon

 

[Armleywhite]

Being good friends with Pat Regan, who championed the anti knife laws and gun crime etc, I have seen some horrendous knife crime figures. Recently at a fete, where a special tent was in place for kids to sign up to a pledge against carrying knives, my son refused t osign the pledge saying he wouldn't be able to keep the promise. The organisers looked horrified and asked why. He said, "what about the time me and dad go camping and use the knves to work with?" The chap was greatly releived and explained ( to all in attendance) that a knife is a very useful tool and so long as people are taught to use a knife in the correct manner then no harm can be done. He carried on explaining to Sam, my son, that the pledge is about carying knives for protection etc, or to event such as football matches etc.

My son looked at him and said "well, why didn't you say that? Of course I'll sign it"

Knife usage needs to be taught at an early age to respect the tool being used.

 

[SimonM]

...

Knife usage needs to be taught at an early age to respect the tool being used.

I agree, and my son got his first SAK at the age of 8. It's his 9th birthday today - all fingers still attached and not even a nick.

My daughter aged 10, has recently joined Scouts and is now the owner of her first fixed blade - a Mora.

Teach them young & teach them properly!

Simon

 

[Armleywhite]

I agree, and my son got his first SAK at the age of 8. It's his 9th birthday today - all fingers still attached and not even a nick.

My daughter aged 10, has recently joined Scouts and is now the owner of her first fixed blade - a Mora.

Teach them young & teach them properly!

Simon

Exactly. MY lad is constantly getting out my SAK to whittle away at any bit of old wood in the garden, or practice his feathering for tinder etc. A few knicks, but he is as sensible as I am with a knife in his hands..

 

[Nagual]

Knife laws are certainly not immediately straight forward. One other thing to keep in mind is while you may have a lawful reason and permission to use/carry a knife while camping(if you are on someone elses land you technically need their permission too) if you forget your knife s there on your way home and pop in to a shop or your local you are commiting a crime. It's also worth mentioning that having one in your car is essentially the same as carrying it on your person. In other words apply the same common sense to anything in your car as well, don't have your knife in easy reach like in the glove compartment or sides in the doors etc, keep in in the boot well out of reach.

That was explained to me by Jonny from Survival School and it certainly makes a lot of sense.

 

[John Fenna]

How would one stand if you carried a perpose designed rescue tool - such as the Victorinox model - within easy reach?
I carry large 1st Aid kit, a fire extinguisher and rescue tool in all the family vehicles.... the rescue tools look like knives and have locking blades.

A mate of mine watched a guy - fully concious - cook in his own car in a pile up on a motorway - the seatbelt and doors jammed/were not accessible and no one could free the guy......I do not want to be in that situation and the story had a bad effect on my sleep for a long while.
My mate has never got over it.

 

[Walks with dogs]

Once again John the answer would have to be " It depends".
Depends on the circumstances in which you were found with it, on the bobby that deals with you, on the way you come across, even on God help us, how much pressure is on the bobby to "lock up".

It is possible to buy a rescue tool (similar to the box cutters you see staff carrying in supermarkets) - for seat belt cutting, punching through windows etc which would fall well within the legislation in my view.

 

[John Fenna]

Ahh - you see -you have used that word "buy" - I don't do that kind of thing...I get given for review in my magazine columns....I guess I could say that the kit is part of my job therefor I have to have it for the purposes of trying it out n a real incident.....

 

[Black Sheep]

How would one stand if you carried a purpose designed rescue tool - such as the Victorinox model - within easy reach?
I carry large 1st Aid kit, a fire extinguisher and rescue tool in all the family vehicles.... the rescue tools look like knives and have locking blades.

likewise I carry a rescue knife in my vehicles kit, but I work on the theory that it's inside the FAK so it s there for a reason - therefore just reason.

I also carry a Leatherman at work (I'm a Medical Engineer in a Hospital) and it has been used to fix many things at work & I also carry it when I'm on call as it usually saves time when an urgent call comes(personal judgment required). But as far as I'm concerned its a tool NOT a weapon just the same as any of my other tools but I wouldn't go out for a few pints with it on me.

My experience is that so long as you behave yourself, use a bit of common sense and don't go waving it around in public giving the Police reason to search you your OK.

Richard

 

[Jonny Crockett]

Hi Folks,

Let's clear something up here.

Source: Criminal Justice Act, 1988. Section 139(1).
Offence: It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches. The burden of proving the lawful authority lies with the defendant.

Within the eyes of the law, a locking folding knife is a fixed blade when extended and so will be treated as such. Not just interpretation, but with guidelines and in case law.

Another thing to think about is "Just in case is no excuse". We should all remember that the dramatic incidents of people coming unstuck in cars etc are very few and far between however unfortunate and sad they are.

There is one other point that should be made. Bushcrafters and Survivalists are amongst the luckiest people on the planet. We have such a great time in the woods and remote areas. Amongst our tools of the trade are knives, axes etc. If we set a good example and stay within the law, then we will more likely be left alone. If a trend is noticed by the powers that be that we are going against the law (created by the governments that we have elected (age permitting)) then the right to carry these tools may be taken away from us.

Just remember - permission and good reason.

If you guys have any questions about knife law that I can help with, please don't hesitate to get in touch. (jonny@survivalschool.co.uk or 0871 222 7304 during office hours)

I'd rather spend the day talking to you fella's than to hear that you are taking communal showers with lots of other people of the same gender and have slipped of the electoral role.

Take it easy.

Jonny

 

[thebrentc]

Hi

I get the general discussion and background re: knives, but any specific advice / links with legal aspects welcome:

I want to bring back a camping knife (> 3", fixed blade) from SA, that used to belong to my grandfather. So:
- what's the situation with taking it in hold luggage on flight?
- what's situation with carrying it in luggage on tube to get home?
- what's the situation with keeping it at home (I doubt I'd take it out the house once it's there)

Thanks,
Brent

 

[Nagual]

Hi

I get the general discussion and background re: knives, but any specific advice / links with legal aspects welcome:

I want to bring back a camping knife (> 3", fixed blade) from SA, that used to belong to my grandfather. So:
- what's the situation with taking it in hold luggage on flight?
- what's situation with carrying it in luggage on tube to get home?
- what's the situation with keeping it at home (I doubt I'd take it out the house once it's there)

Thanks,
Brent

- what's the situation with taking it in hold luggage on flight?
Shouldn't be a problem in hold luggage. Contact your airline carrier directly to make sure

- what's situation with carrying it in luggage on tube to get home?
If it's securely placed in the bottom of your baggage, where you or someone else cannot get to it quickly or easily, you should be fine as long as you are going straight home.

- what's the situation with keeping it at home (I doubt I'd take it out the house once it's there)
Keeping it at home is no problem.

If you have any doubts at all, why not take Jonny up on his offer of info? Or if you feel you want other advice why not contact your police station or airport security for advice?

Nag.

 

[chris_r]

Posting it guaranteed might be an option, but if you have correspondence form the airline and your local police department giving advice to corroborate your storey, I think you'll be fine.

 

[neil draycott]

some good information here folks i went out for the day in the snow on thursday in the forest i had my knife on me and a parang for cutting fire wood the one thing that was foremost on my mind was not will i be able to make a fire or will i get lost in the forest but am i legal in carrying my tools.i am 42 and far past the days of carrying knives for alleged self defence but i do at times feel like i shouldnt have one.
one thing that comes to mind however is the long since past gun laws whereby all but a few guns were banned in the country after hungerford the idea behind it being if you cannot have a firearms licence you shouldnt be able to get hold of a gun.as we can all see that seems to not be working based on the recent gun crime figures surely it is about teaching people respect for the implements they wish to carry and not about removing the implement itself after all in the army i was once taught 12 ways to kill a man with a teaspoon does that mean we ban all cutlery and class a teaspoon as a lethal weapon which by law you will not be allowed to use.give these kids a reason to use a knife for its real purpose and not for stabbing someone because he/she disrepects them with a sideways glance.