toys an observation

[troyka]

Being a newbie here, ive been reading a lot of the posts and what strikes me is how incredibly expensive all the favourite toys are, Knives at over £100 torches for more than £70 and countless other bits of kit.
I guess I'm just surprised a primitive lifestyle site has such a consumerist base to it.
This is not meant to upset anyone just my observation.

ian

 

[Stuart]

________________________________________
Many people here own expensive knives and torches, equally as many own £10 knives (or make there own) and have little of no interest in torches at all.

We welcome everyone from those who like to buy all the shiniest kit to those who make everything they use themselves.

But everyone here is interested in the knowledge of ancient skills, for me bushcraft is blending new technology with ancient skills to get the best of both worlds, I am happy to buy a knife, but I have also made my own knives from both steel and from flint.

What important is not what you carry, but the knowledge that allows you to go without should you need too

Kit lust is part of human nature, I wonder how many pelts Mr prime was prepared to trade for a shiny new obsidian knife to replace his flint one? If a San bushman can get his hands on a superb quality knife he wouldn’t hesitate, the difference is that if he lost it he possesses the knowledge do without.

Kit is not a bad thing, dependency on it is

 

[BorderReiver]

The thing to remember Troyka is that these expensive toys are TOTALLY UNNECESSARY.

Nice to have and play with,but unnecessary all the same.

 

[jamesdevine]

As has been said not all this expensive kit is neccesary but some items I have found you need to spend money on like good boots, bag and sleeping bag the rest is just gravy as they say.

Really do think it is human nature. My wife is no different when it comes to shoes and make up then I am with kit.

James

 

[jdlenton]

The old saying “you get what you pay for” applies to kit very well you just have to choose where and on what you spend your money. Some pieces in my kit bag cost a lot but I got a very very good kit for my money some bits cost me pennies and do what they are supposed to very well,



I ask myself three questions when I’m contemplating spend a huge wedge on kit

How well does it do its job ? make sure you do your research

Is there a cheaper alternative that does the job better?

Is it right for me or am I buying it because I need it or because someone else has one and I want on too?



Answer these three truthfully to your self and you will never be unhappy with an expensive kit purchase after the fact



James

 

[ESpy]

How well does it do its job ? make sure you do your research

Is there a cheaper alternative that does the job better?

Is it right for me or am I buying it because I need it or because someone else has one and I want on too?

4. Should I be making this for myself

 

[jdlenton]

Oops forgot that one pete
I love making my own kit and it gives you enormous satisfaction but sometimes for the beginner tooling up to make a piece of kit is as if not more expensive than buying the blooming thing in the first place.


Good fun though



James

 

[isotonicpies]

Being a newbie here, ive been reading a lot of the posts and what strikes me is how incredibly expensive all the favourite toys are, Knives at over £100 torches for more than £70 and countless other bits of kit.
I guess I'm just surprised a primitive lifestyle site has such a consumerist base to it.
This is not meant to upset anyone just my observation.

ian

Agreed, The price of bushcraft knives is the item which completely demonstrates this point. I could never part with that amount of money for a knife, so I popped down to the supermarket and bought a small fruit & veg general purpose knife (about 6cm blade length) for under two pounds … which I used to make the sheath. It may be a slightly thinner blade than a woodlore style blade and have a double edge but it suits my hand and pocket, and its idiosyncrasies have helped me develop my own style of carving. I’m new to this so how do I know it’s not the perfect tool to suit me. I’m not a woodlore student, I’m a ‘me’ student. I can also guarantee that my knife great for fruit and veg! No offence to woodlore, its people and it’s equipment is intended here, (as in fact it was Mr Mears who mentions that any good cutlery blade will do – I followed his advice and succeeded in finding a great knife), I’m just trying to make a point.

 

[Ogri the trog]

What can I add that has not been said already,
Yes, I can lust over a top-of-the-range knife along with the rest of society, but be patient and scour the second-hand ad's - there are some great bargains to be had. I bought a second hand Pukko from Beachlover, a great beginners knife. That led me to buying the parts and making my own - next step will be to improvise a forge and make my own blade. Things that you make yourself are always improving, whereas to modify a bought piece of kit can cost a lot if it goes wrong.
If you are good at a particular skill, then try trading your time and expertise with someone else who can do something that you want, fair exchange and all that.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[BlueTrain]

Being a newbie here, ive been reading a lot of the posts and what strikes me is how incredibly expensive all the favourite toys are, Knives at over £100 torches for more than £70 and countless other bits of kit.
I guess I'm just surprised a primitive lifestyle site has such a consumerist base to it.
ian

I personally don't see this as a primitive lifestyle site. It is true that it is oriented towards what you might call outdoor living but after all, whatever a primitive lifestyle is, is relative anyway.

The question of style is another matter, however.

But we are all consumers. The differences are in how much we consume and who produced it in the first place. Frankly, a lot of us don't produce much of anything anymore, yet don't seem to have much spare time left over after returning to our burrows after the day is over. There is some irony here.

Those who lived a more primative lifestyle in the not too distant past were nevertheless often living on the cutting edge of technology in many ways. They just didn't happen to live in town. But if they could manage it, they bought the best things they could find to increase their comfort and efficiency wherever they happen to be living.

Another irony is how a step increase in technology, after a fashion, allows a different lifestyle that some might consider to be more primitive, or at least one that would require a somewhat more primitive way of doing things. I am thinking here of the introduction of certain domesticated animals, namely the horse. Some American Indians were nomadic before horses were introduced into the West presumably in the 1500's or later. But after horses were acquired it allowed a totally different nomadic lifestyle to evolve. Whether or not a nomadic lifestyle is more primative or not is still a question.

Speaking for myself at this point, I am perfectly willing to part with considerable cash for certain things in this context but not for others. Of course, my cash always runs out way before even only a few, uh, desires are satisified. I guess maybe it's the gettin' that's fun.

 

[Grooveski]

Another newbie here, and what freaks me out is the shopping list that's gradualy forming.
I used to be happy with my kit, but it's coming under a bit more scrutiny these days.

 

[leon-1]

I like toys and gadgets, always have and have forked out a fair amount on them over the years. Not everything that I have bought was originally for Bushcraft though and a lot has been accumulated over a long period of time (buying the best that I could afford at the time for the job at hand).

As with a lot of the others though I do advocate making your own kit, starting with simple things, it can work out cheaper and will fit more closely the task that you require of it. The other thing is each time you make something you learn that little bit more, be it a set of moccasins, a pouch, a sheath, a hammock or a knife.

I haven't got around to making an axe yet, but will do at some stage

 

[troyka]

i like toys myself, i dont leave home without my digital camera and a bunch of other things.. i do like the kitchen knife idea i have one in my draw i use all the time but never out of the house maybe i will take it next time...

IAn

 

[Rebel]

I don't consider myself a materialist but I'm sitting at an 800GBP computer on broadband with the latest Nokia sitting on my desk alongside a few "expensive" knives and an expensive torch (somewhere in the price range that was mentioned).

This thread got me to thinking. If I were a builder I would buy DeWalt, or similarly priced tools. I'm only a home handyman so I buy less expensive mid-range tools. If I hardly ever used tools I'd probably buy the cheapest I could find.

Anything I've done for a living I've always bought the best I can afford, I don't want kit that lets me down. For serious hobbies I also want serious equipment. Sure I could get by with an ebay knife for a fiver, a plastic raincoat and a cheap torch. But if I'm out in the pouring rain for several days and it's dark then I'm thankful for Gore Tex clothing and a good water resistant torch that actually lights up the place.

I also know I won't need to buy a new knife or torch to replace the ones I've got in a hurry because they're well made and I look after my stuff. I don't have money to burn, far from it, that's why I can't afford cheap stuff, I don't want to keep replacing second rate shoddy goods. I've seldom regretted buying good stuff but I've often regretted buying cheap stuff.

Of course there's the other end of the scale where people buy absurdly expensive stuff just for the wow factor or as a status symbol. I guess if they've got the money and it makes them happy then good luck to them but I can't help but feel that it's a bit shallow.

I'm just an amateur bushcrafter and I feel I need modern gear to make my outdoor experiences more enjoyable. I also love photography so along comes more modern and expensive kit. A real tribal person wouldn't need what I feel I need but then he might be really happy if I gave him my stainless steel knife.

 

[moko]

In truth, you dont need anything, just the desire to learn and a bit of imagination.
Afterall, what good is a £300 knife if dont know how to sharpen it in the bush.

 

[zambezi]

One area in which the more expensive equipment has made a big difference to my outdoor travels is the area of weight. On a trip which requires that I carry shelter, food , the means to cook, etc then titanium, silnylon, goretex all offer more capability for less weight than steel, canvas and waxed cotton.

It also means that I can be away from re-supply for longer since there is more room available for food given the low weight and size of the modern stuff.

How about a wind-proof shell the size of an apple?

 

[richardw]

Good post Troyka.

As an example a Mora knife will cost you £10.It does the job just as well as a custom built knife of £150 - £200.

So why do we all have the more expensive option (especially when MK says all you need is a Mora)?

I like nice toys/tools and am at a stage in my life where I feel I deserve nice things. That my excuse and I'm sticking to it!!

Richard