- what...!?
I don't know where you live, but any mention of 'knife' to any post office in/around London and the eyebrows furrow, the world slows down (even more).........you're usually doomed - they're never 'happy'
The End of Internet Knife Sales. Law change could target one-hand opening folders
- Thread starter C_Claycomb
- Start date
- Status
- what...!?
I don't know where you live, but any mention of 'knife' to any post office in/around London and the eyebrows furrow, the world slows down (even more).........you're usually doomed - they're never 'happy'
You may and go the whole hog, this is written directly under the paragraph on weapons...................................
*We reserve the right to refuse any other item banned by law or that in our opinion may be harmful or dangerous to our customers or employees. If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods.
Having been a sub-postmaster I can tell you , its at the discretion of the sub-postmaster what he accepts, and this leaves the door open for items to be refused, especially if you admit it is a knife, after all unless they actually see it how do they know it isn't a banned item.
*We reserve the right to refuse any other item banned by law or that in our opinion may be harmful or dangerous to our customers or employees. If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods.
Having been a sub-postmaster I can tell you , its at the discretion of the sub-postmaster what he accepts, and this leaves the door open for items to be refused, especially if you admit it is a knife, after all unless they actually see it how do they know it isn't a banned item.
good point ( see what I did there ) then I guess if you declare the package contains a knife then it will be refused.
bit of a problem really.
bit of a problem really.
Yes... Royal Mail is perfectly happy to deliver knives.
However the Post Office employ a lot of jobsworths at local level who seem to think they have the right to refuse a package simply because you've declared you're posting a knife.
People seem to think that the Post Office and Royal are the same organisation but they're in fact totally separate entities. Post Office Ltd is a retail post office company in the United Kingdom that provides a wide range of products including postage stamps and banking to the public through its nationwide network of post office branches (quoted from Wikipedia). Royal Mail contract them to act as collection points for people to post things and set the rules as to what can be posted but as I said local Post Office staff interpret those rules as they see fit and refuse to budge even if you've got proof they're wrong.
Anyway enough of this squabbling, unless these Laws come into effect, we will not know how we will be affected by them, a lot will depend on which knives, if any, will be reclassified as illegal, and have some idea how a delivery process will work out, its obvious, at least to me, that it will affect a lot of makers, and retailers , and no doubt a lot of makers will give up, and that's a shame, and I am sure that this wont be the end of many more changes to come.
Not many will argue against the fact that something has to be done, to curb the violence on the streets, and as usual the good people will suffer because of the actions of the few, lets just hope some good comes of it.
Not many will argue against the fact that something has to be done, to curb the violence on the streets, and as usual the good people will suffer because of the actions of the few, lets just hope some good comes of it.
we all know this is the real problem... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/met-police-spending-cuts-400-million-funding-london-crimes-not-investigated-burglary-assault-a8002746.html?amp
Mark, if for example one of the guys irders a knife from you, would you be hapoy to state it is (just an example) that the package contains fishing gear or kitchen equipment.
You know, no outright lies, but a vague description?
You know, no outright lies, but a vague description?
Only if you put it in an envelope. It needs to be very well packaged, then there is nothing illegal and according to PO rules, absolutely fine. It's the inflated egos of the PO workers that can be a problem. They love the new powers, they feel like part of a police force. No offence Fadcode, but some swell with the glory of it, for me it depends on which PO I use. My favourite was the one at the Weald and Downland Museum who have part of the business devoted to sending Gransfors axes. They really don't bat an eyelid at a knife as long as it well packaged.
I declare knives often, I'm selling off a few. If it's a bushcraft type, then I say it's a bushcraft tool. Mainly, if I'm sending within the UK I don't say the 'knife' word, but call it camping equipment, custom cutlery etc. This is just to the postworker, there's no label required to declare contents. If it's out to the US, then I describe it as it as above.
It annoys the hell out of me that these stooges have been given a tiny bit of power and can ask, often in front of other people, what you're sending. With the more pushy of these walts, I have loudly said it's a sex toy, but it doesn't include batteries apart from those installed. Their rules, chuck them back at them.
I think it's fair to assume that people affected by the ban on internet knife sales will have access to the internet to check emails.
There will no be dodging declaring knives in postal packaging because that would be breaking the law. The new postage deal would have to have similar tags to the current 'signed for' deliveries but with an additional 18+ ID check label on there. The Post Office/Royal Mail will be consulted as part of this enquiry so if they really want to turn away a massive amount of business that will boost their failing bricks and motar business model then an alternative method will be found.
Your arguement is based on the rediculous assumption that one handed knifes are being reclassified as flick knives which I've already been throuhh. Since most small knife makers concentrate on fixed blade knives there will be no possible reclassification of the tools they make. If you're a small maker then be certain to make sure your voice is heard as part of this consultation because the impact on small and micro businesses is being analysed and there is very little data on how many small makers there are and there is a possibility of the law being made more lenient if necessary. Again tell whoever that you have problems with the Post Office not taking knives in the post if that's your experience.
Just to double check that I'm not spouting utter nonsense have a look on company's delivery pages. Heinnie already use Royal Mail for their deliveries as do a number of similar outlets. Given how much mail volume Heinnie alone must send out I expect RM will be trying to keep them happy.
With all this debating about P.O. and RM I thought that Id recount my experiences over the last year. In that period Ive purchased around 8 knives, sold a few on and bought an axe (dont tell the better half 
). This included a Mora from Amazon and an axe from Woodlore/Ray Mears. The remaining knives came from the usual well known knife and bushcraft stores. All except the Amazon order were delivered by RM. Mmost would have been left in my post box and none were signed for. The only time with any of the orders that I was asked for proof of ID was with Woodlore (so credit to them).
Im sure RM was used each time due to my remote location. Amazon share deliveries with all local couriers and on this occasion it was Hermes.
Id not want to travel to a P.O. counter to collect a knife as my nearest is an hour away. My nearest RM collection depot is 2 hours away.
Surely if evidence shows that shops are not carrying out proper ID checks (and my experiences corroborate this), why not start prosecuting the sellers. I guess this doesnt happen because Trading Standards dont have enough manpower?
As Westminster only ever seem to like doing things that increases taxes why dont they now just introduce the idea of proper government led ID cards again? I never understood what the fuss was about when this was muted before, on the basis that if youre a legally abiding person you have nothing to hide?? Dont many European countries already have ID cards? At least these could be accepted as proper proof of ID (maybe at the point of internet knife sale and delivery?). Ok its open to forgery but then so are many things like passports and driving licences.
It was mentioned earlier that pPeople get killed everyday by cars and alcohol but theyll never be banned due to the huge business and taxes behind them. Knife sales dont generate such volume business in the uk.
). This included a Mora from Amazon and an axe from Woodlore/Ray Mears. The remaining knives came from the usual well known knife and bushcraft stores. All except the Amazon order were delivered by RM. Mmost would have been left in my post box and none were signed for. The only time with any of the orders that I was asked for proof of ID was with Woodlore (so credit to them). Im sure RM was used each time due to my remote location. Amazon share deliveries with all local couriers and on this occasion it was Hermes.
Id not want to travel to a P.O. counter to collect a knife as my nearest is an hour away. My nearest RM collection depot is 2 hours away.
Surely if evidence shows that shops are not carrying out proper ID checks (and my experiences corroborate this), why not start prosecuting the sellers. I guess this doesnt happen because Trading Standards dont have enough manpower?
As Westminster only ever seem to like doing things that increases taxes why dont they now just introduce the idea of proper government led ID cards again? I never understood what the fuss was about when this was muted before, on the basis that if youre a legally abiding person you have nothing to hide?? Dont many European countries already have ID cards? At least these could be accepted as proper proof of ID (maybe at the point of internet knife sale and delivery?). Ok its open to forgery but then so are many things like passports and driving licences.
It was mentioned earlier that pPeople get killed everyday by cars and alcohol but theyll never be banned due to the huge business and taxes behind them. Knife sales dont generate such volume business in the uk.
Last edited:
As I've mentioned before how does an online retailer know who is using the card? Plenty of parents let their children use their cards and plenty of children use cards without permission.
Having said that various online retailers and banks often don't bother validating details to stop fraud so I can't see them guaranteeing age checks any time soon.
I often wonder if some sort of knife makers trade organisation would help. A body with a bit of clout that could work with the Royal Mail for example or even a courier to sort out a better form of age checking. They could even lobby the government but it's a bit late for the current changes.
at present i do not intentionally break the law nor would i in future. it is frustrating that i can legally post a knife but am often refused this by ignorant, opinionated, easily offended post office staff. have had to go to a completely different post office in the past to post a knife for no other reason the the counter staff member didnt like them. i have also fallen out with counter staff when they become rude towards me. unless posting abroad its anything but a knife... ridiculous, utterly ridiculous the general public are so brain washed with hyped up media they actually believe a knife/gun is evil! and i am sick for wanting to post one and should be flogged!
edit: have been tempted as nice65 says to declare it as a faulty used sex toy... maybe even rub a little Vaseline on the end of the box...
Last edited:
Forgive me if I am being stupid, but only Credit Cards have any age restriction on them. Debit cards do not. Many sites' payment systems do not appear to differentiate between a VISA debit vs credit card. Also, more and more companies are using a Paypal direct payment system, which can be linked to a debit card within Paypal. I have used that for stuff bought from the US when a particular site's overly pedantic address checking system refuses to accept that I have entered the correct billing address, and so is rejecting my card.
Another idea, but does anyone think that the postal system could cope with a geographic linked system for collection vs delivery? If the problem is youngsters in towns and cities, then having delivery in those geographic areas being made to collection points that check age could work. Assuming that businesses are willing to pick up that responsibility there would at least be a chance for collection within reasonable distances. Out in the countryside and particularly the less populated areas there are not the collection options, but then again there are fewer youngsters to try ordering stuff, and fewer still who are likely to be involved in gangs and that whole life style. As a system I can see it working, but cannot see how it could be written as law, given that law is by nature sweeping and a blunt tool.
I have had generally good luck sending the few knives I have need to via RM and the PO. Only refused once, years ago now, when the "weapons" advice first came out. However, this summer I found that DHL would not carry "hunting knives" or "large knives" due to an edict from their security team, that UPS would not carry knives of any kind unless one was a business customer, for which one had to a lot of business with them. FedEx would have carried, but not in the US, because they said they would refuse "sharp objects". I didn't ask TNT or DPD etc since Parcel Force would do it and I was getting mighty fed up. That was a £600 collectors piece that had to go to the US and I wanted full tracking.
Another idea, but does anyone think that the postal system could cope with a geographic linked system for collection vs delivery? If the problem is youngsters in towns and cities, then having delivery in those geographic areas being made to collection points that check age could work. Assuming that businesses are willing to pick up that responsibility there would at least be a chance for collection within reasonable distances. Out in the countryside and particularly the less populated areas there are not the collection options, but then again there are fewer youngsters to try ordering stuff, and fewer still who are likely to be involved in gangs and that whole life style. As a system I can see it working, but cannot see how it could be written as law, given that law is by nature sweeping and a blunt tool.
I have had generally good luck sending the few knives I have need to via RM and the PO. Only refused once, years ago now, when the "weapons" advice first came out. However, this summer I found that DHL would not carry "hunting knives" or "large knives" due to an edict from their security team, that UPS would not carry knives of any kind unless one was a business customer, for which one had to a lot of business with them. FedEx would have carried, but not in the US, because they said they would refuse "sharp objects". I didn't ask TNT or DPD etc since Parcel Force would do it and I was getting mighty fed up. That was a £600 collectors piece that had to go to the US and I wanted full tracking.
Can folks not just go online, work out the weight and insurance, and delivery service they want, and print out the label for themselves. Then it ought to be just a matter of dropping off the parcel at the post office (there's often a post box or parcel box outside on the wall for doing this) or courier service uplift point. Labelled as a woodworking too.
I realise that this circumvents matters, but for private sales, it works.
Maybe not for a £600 knife though and it doesn't deal with the issue of the age of the recipient.
M
I realise that this circumvents matters, but for private sales, it works.
Maybe not for a £600 knife though and it doesn't deal with the issue of the age of the recipient.
M
i wish i had the production/editing skills to make an award winning short film about our plight and stick it on youtube... a bushcrafting person or knife maker, maybe both? a sensitive/considerate trust worthy? law abiding and decent person that just loves the countryside etc showing knives as tools, dealing with the ignorant public/ police, post office staff, government demonstrating exactly why he/she wants to "get away" to the piece and quiet of the woods... the stigma attached to knife use dealt with on a daily basis maybe cut with some tv clips of media hype? v real criminals demonstrating a complete lack of regard... how police funding or lack of it is the real problem alone with government corruption.
educating people to the plight of a minority yet genuinely good one!
educating people to the plight of a minority yet genuinely good one!
I've done that... the glitch with it is that the insurance is not valid if one does not obtain a 'certificate of posting' from the Post Office when it's handed in. Sensible I suppose since otherwise how does RM know it's even been posted?
When I've handed them in, I've still been asked 'what's in it?'
It's OK for lower value items especially if they can fit into a post box though.
just to clarify a couple of points, you can only insure an item with RM if it is sent registered, or parcel,( apart from the standard £30 insurance on a basic letter, etc) to send it registered/parcel you must take it into a post office as it has to be registered on the system.
Heinnies, Amazon and their like, do not go to Post Offices, they bag up the goods and they are picked up by RM, the drivers who pick them up have no interest what is in the bags, they pick them up and take them to the sorting office,they have no idea if there are knives, etc in the bags.
There is likely to be a charge for going to pick your item up, Sub-postmasters, and others, will probably not like doing this service for nothing, The Gov't is very unlikely to hand the franchise for doing this service to RM, as RM is a private company, and this and any other Gov't would not like to be seen favouring one company, and are unlikely to force retailers to use one carrier.
Heinnies, Amazon and their like, do not go to Post Offices, they bag up the goods and they are picked up by RM, the drivers who pick them up have no interest what is in the bags, they pick them up and take them to the sorting office,they have no idea if there are knives, etc in the bags.
There is likely to be a charge for going to pick your item up, Sub-postmasters, and others, will probably not like doing this service for nothing, The Gov't is very unlikely to hand the franchise for doing this service to RM, as RM is a private company, and this and any other Gov't would not like to be seen favouring one company, and are unlikely to force retailers to use one carrier.
- Status
Similar threads
