The End of Internet Knife Sales. Law change could target one-hand opening folders

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Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,540
705
Knowhere
Would it not be wiser to ban a sharp point on knives?

Most damage by knives is done by sticking the knife into somebody. Slicing is fairly unusual.

Actually some time ago some Doctor who evidently never spent any time in a kitchen proposed a ban on sharp points on kitchen knives. The mind truly boggles.
 

Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,297
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Actually some time ago some Doctor who evidently never spent any time in a kitchen proposed a ban on sharp points on kitchen knives. The mind truly boggles.

I am the cook in our house and I basically never use the point, to be frank.
Only use the point on the shortest knife, a 150mm Honesuki, for picking out the seeds from limes and lemons.

Wife uses the point for puncturing the metal lid on glass jars ( pickles, pickled ghurkins, roasted red peppers, olives and sauerkraut) and I hate her doing that.
Buggers up the edge. Big time.
If I see her using one of my Moritaka Hamono knives, I do not want to even think of the consekvenses....
:)

But she knows that.
 
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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,297
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I think we all are positive to law changes that make our lifes safer, and prevents potentially dangerous objects and substanses being easily available for the criminal minded.
Bear this solution in mind:
Morakniv makes two interesting knifes for children.

Check out Morakniv Scout 39 Safe and Morakniv Rookie. Rounded tips.
Cut back the fingerguard and you have a good bushcraft knife. Will do 99.99% of what a large knife does.

You could take a knife the new proposal wants to ban, round the tip and it becomes useless as an offensive wapon. Will still cut whatever you need cutting.
 
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sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,561
480
derbyshire
You could take a knife the new proposal wants to ban

Not if its banned you couldn't

So after a mental health evaluation do we all simply get issued a regulation sharp butter knife by the government and have to account for its whereabouts at all times? Seems like the easist solution
 

mark.177

Maker
Apr 21, 2014
722
152
Cornwall UK
the people of this country gave up there freedom in exchange for "security" hundreds of years ago and are taxed heavily for it!, i for one never signed up for that. i want my FREEDOM!

sounds ridiculous i know but... i want freedom to live how i choose, from tax, to hunt, to fish, to carry a pointy knife and freedom to protect myself and family.... how it used to be![video=youtube;hIvRkjOd1f8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIvRkjOd1f8[/video]
 
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daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,459
525
South Wales
the people of this country gave up there freedom in exchange for "security" hundreds of years ago and are taxed heavily for it!, i for one never signed up for that. i want my FREEDOM!

sounds ridiculous i know but... i want freedom live how i choose, from tax, to hunt, to carry a pointy knife and freedom to protect myself and family.... how it used to be!

My wife recently had a baby and if it wasn't for taxes and security we wouldn't have had access to the NHS. As it was all the pointy things I own wouldn't have saved her from dying in childbirth but a doctor and team of assistants managed it very nicely. Just something to think about. Freedom is a great thing to have but it's also nice to know that a freer person with a bigger pointier knife isn't going to take it from you.
 

mark.177

Maker
Apr 21, 2014
722
152
Cornwall UK
My wife recently had a baby and if it wasn't for taxes and security we wouldn't have had access to the NHS. As it was all the pointy things I own wouldn't have saved her from dying in childbirth but a doctor and team of assistants managed it very nicely. Just something to think about. Freedom is a great thing to have but it's also nice to know that a freer person with a bigger pointier knife isn't going to take it from you.

you cant argue with that can you... but thats the choice id make. and its your choice to subscribe but freedom it isnt... where do you draw the line and say enough is enough? when if im lucky!? im old and dying in my bed, i can look back and think on it. you are either free or you are not... there is no in between, only compromise. personally have had enough of "safe" am sick of "safe"... smothered by it.
young men died for our freedom i doubt many of them thought about there own lives in that last moment.
we dont have a "second amendment" here in the uk but should, having freedom doesnt necessarily mean no hospitals, doctors, medicine, books!

have just had enough of it, its going to far.

good day.
 
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daveO

Native
Jun 22, 2009
1,459
525
South Wales
Ok fact check time (crucial parts in bold):

The current definition of a flick knife is:
2.1 The Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959-1961 prohibit the
possession and importation of:
• any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, sometimes known as a “flick knife” or “flick gun”

The proposal being put forward is:
'The current definition of flick knives in the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 is outdated and refers to the mechanism that activates the blade being in the handle. We will delete the reference to the switch blade mechanism being in the handle, as manufacturers now place the mechanism in a part of the knife that can be argued is part of the blade. This means the prohibition on the sale, manufacture and importing of flick knives cannot be circumvented through changes in their design.'

So this leaves us with a proposed new definition that will read:
2.1 The Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959-1961 (amended 2018) prohibit the
possession and importation of:
• any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the knife, sometimes known as a “flick knife” or “flick gun”

This is further backed up by the Gov.uk definition which says:
flick knives (also known as ‘switchblades’ or ‘automatic knives’) - a blade hidden inside a handle which shoots out when a button is pressed

Personally I'm satisfied that none of my one handed folding knives open automatically when I do anything to them and as such will remain perfectly legal to own and use. I appreciate that the definition of a 'gravity knife' has been abused in the past though by people who don't understand the difference between gravity and kinetic energy. If you feel this definition is open to misinterpretation then this is certainly a matter to address in this consultation. It is important though not to confuse the facts when you write to your MP or respond to the consultation. The thread title
One handed folders made illegal to own
is hugely misleading and if you respond based on that it will inevitably cause confusion and your letter will likely get ignored.
 

Chui

Full Member
Feb 18, 2010
51
2
London
Ok fact check time (crucial parts in bold):

Personally I'm satisfied that none of my one handed folding knives open automatically when I do anything to them and as such will remain perfectly legal to own and use. I appreciate that the definition of a 'gravity knife' has been abused in the past though by people who don't understand the difference between gravity and kinetic energy. If you feel this definition is open to misinterpretation then this is certainly a matter to address in this consultation. It is important though not to confuse the facts when you write to your MP or respond to the consultation. The thread title is hugely misleading and if you respond based on that it will inevitably cause confusion and your letter will likely get ignored.

Dave, what do you think this is saying:

'The current definition of flick knives in the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 is outdated and refers to the mechanism that activates the blade being in the handle. We will delete the reference to the switch blade mechanism being in the handle, as manufacturers now place the mechanism in a part of the knife that can be argued is part of the blade. This means the prohibition on the sale, manufacture and importing of flick knives cannot be circumvented through changes in their design.'


To me, and many others, it is saying it "can be argued" the mechanism is part of the blade.

Do you really mean to say that you cannot conceive the proposals arguing that a thumbstud, thumbhole or flipper-tab is part of the mechanism of the blade.....?

It is my utter and sincere hope that they are referring to flippers - a tab on the blade whereby the blade is capable of flying open. Perhaps you don't have any of these particular type, but they are one-hand-opening, obviously.

For the proposals to include Spydie hole knives, and similar, and thumbstud types, would send shivers throughout the vast law-abiding knife community - but nevertheless, despite no clarity as yet, causes great concern
 
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FoxyRick

Forager
Feb 11, 2007
138
2
56
Rossendale, England
daveO, Your 'facts' and not facts, they are an incorrect and naive interpretation of almost no 'facts'.

Do you recall a court deciding that lock knives with blades under 3" were the same as fixed blade knives and then prosecuting on that basis? That was because the written act kept it vague.

Some points you seem to miss, but a judge won't:

any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the knife, sometimes known as a “flick knife” or “flick gun”

The word 'sometimes'... thus such knives are not always 'flick knives'. So we can now include any knife as potential for the preceding words.

Even without that, your given definition of a flick knife as

a blade hidden inside a handle which shoots out when a button is pressed

could just as easily apply to many knives, when the prosecution demonstrates any one-handed opener with a well-made pivot. The words are almost meaningless really and open to very wide interpretation. 'Shoots out'... what does that mean to a non-expert judge being shown a quick-opening thumbstud knife?

So, we are basically left with the word 'automatically'. What does that mean, to the same judge? You've already admitted that the gravity knife situation is being abused... do you really think that won't be the case here too given the chance?

'Automatically' basically means without user input; once the 'button' (thumbstud, flipper) is 'pressed' and released. Most decent one-handed knives can be made to finish opening after the finger has left the 'button', even if only at the last moment. One is all it takes to be demonstrated in court and they all become illegal to own. That is what the police and government want from this.

I have several knives with thumb studs and I can open even the stiffest of them without keeping my thumb on the stud all the way to the lock. The stiffest takes some effort... but that is exactly what the prosecution will put in to convince the court!

If these proposals go ahead in even the slightest way, I think it will soon follow that case law will outlaw all one handed openers as they come before courts. That might not bother you, but it bothers me to have useful tools taken away from me when I have done nothing wrong, for the sake of a political leader trying to make a name for herself.
 
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