I think there is no difference between the two. Its purely definition. My survival knife happens to be the shape of a bushcraft knife. My definition of a bushcraft knife.
Survival v Bushcraft?
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The problem here is the question is flawed.
A survival knife is 'the knife', so I would go for a Ka Bar to be honest.
On the other hand, my trusty Mora, Billhook, Leatherman Charge XTI, and saw, do my Bushcraft tasks with ease.
The problem is a survival knife has to be all things, it might not do them well, but it has to be able to do them.
A Bushcraft knife just has to be very good at certain tasks, because I have other items to take up the slack.
Ref hunting, skining etc with a Bushcraft knife. They rock in the kitchen, could get rid of all my other knifes but for the bread knife. Are not moras actually advertised as butcher knifes? Am I missing something here?
A survival knife is 'the knife', so I would go for a Ka Bar to be honest.
On the other hand, my trusty Mora, Billhook, Leatherman Charge XTI, and saw, do my Bushcraft tasks with ease.
The problem is a survival knife has to be all things, it might not do them well, but it has to be able to do them.
A Bushcraft knife just has to be very good at certain tasks, because I have other items to take up the slack.
Ref hunting, skining etc with a Bushcraft knife. They rock in the kitchen, could get rid of all my other knifes but for the bread knife. Are not moras actually advertised as butcher knifes? Am I missing something here?
Is the question really more about what tool you would consider invaluable and the best to have on you if caught in the wilds with little else? Many have answered so and my answer would by a good sharp smallish Axe, like my GB SFA.
If I had that though I would probably also have my BG Bushcrafter which I consider a superior tool for many tasks but I could get along with just the Axe for important tasks. I really don't know what practical advantage a long 'hunting knife' has over an Axe in a survival situation other than it might have been more compact and easier to pack. A lot of these so called 'survival knives' seem to be utility combat knives which the forces are more familiar with possibly.
Personally I grew up with Axes and am familiar with them. My SFA is an extra dimension again on the felling Axe I had to split wood with as a kid too. I could prep game with it, carve notches etc. I'm sure I can make fig-4 traps with it etc. I would love to have my Bushcrafter along though because it's easier for the finer work and the ability to crowd over a blade for intricate stuff maybe handy. I'm not sure that you would get that dexterity out of a 'Hunting Knife'.
Many folks seem to have the same thoughts about Parangs as Axes and can attribute good and different use to each part of the blade. The closest I've ever got to using something like that is a Billhook so I'd stick to something I know how to use. I'll still take the SFA as the single all rounder if I can only carry one thing but if I'm pushed for space I'll have my BG Bushcrafter ^^
If I had that though I would probably also have my BG Bushcrafter which I consider a superior tool for many tasks but I could get along with just the Axe for important tasks. I really don't know what practical advantage a long 'hunting knife' has over an Axe in a survival situation other than it might have been more compact and easier to pack. A lot of these so called 'survival knives' seem to be utility combat knives which the forces are more familiar with possibly.
Personally I grew up with Axes and am familiar with them. My SFA is an extra dimension again on the felling Axe I had to split wood with as a kid too. I could prep game with it, carve notches etc. I'm sure I can make fig-4 traps with it etc. I would love to have my Bushcrafter along though because it's easier for the finer work and the ability to crowd over a blade for intricate stuff maybe handy. I'm not sure that you would get that dexterity out of a 'Hunting Knife'.
Many folks seem to have the same thoughts about Parangs as Axes and can attribute good and different use to each part of the blade. The closest I've ever got to using something like that is a Billhook so I'd stick to something I know how to use. I'll still take the SFA as the single all rounder if I can only carry one thing but if I'm pushed for space I'll have my BG Bushcrafter ^^
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When talking about knives, I fail to see a difference between survival and bushcraft. In the US we have a group that calls themselves Survivalists. They practice bushcraft as a subset of skills required for surviving when society fails and we're all on our own. They also do things like practice close quarters combat shooting, knife fighting, etc. When it gets down to it, the likelihood of the entire world as we know it coming to an end is very small. However, the likelihood that I may get lost on a hiking trip and have to make camp for the night is relatively higher. Or maybe I'll be at my mother-in-laws house and her butcher knives will be horrendously dull. I prefer a bushcraft type of knife for everyday carry because it is a good size and design for doing many tasks passibly well. I have quite a few really good survival knives (read that as full tang combat knives). They are really good for their purpose and can be used for most, if not all, bushcraft tasks. However, I can't carry a combat knife with a 7 inch blade on my belt to the grocery store. It makes people nervous. The bushcraft knife, especially an attractive and classy looking one with nice scales and bolster, worn in a way that isn't too obvious is a good blade to carry every day. It's important that it's classy looking because, believe it or not, a nice looking knife is less threatening than a black parkerized finished dagger and is less likely upset peoples' sensitivities. Finally, if you can't take it everywhere you go, then it probably won't be on your belt or in your pocket when you need it. In that case, I hope you know how to make a knife from a piece of flint or obsidian.
How about this:
You are kidnapped and told you are going to be dropped somewhere in the wilderness with nothing but ONE knife, and are given the choice between a 'survival' knife and a bushcraft knife...
If you argue about how that is not realistic, then he will either kill you or drop you off without any knife...
Now, THAT is what I interpret the thread to be about... Though then people will probably start on about how they would never be kidnapped in the first place, or how they would escape before they were dropped off and there goes the thread again...
Soooooo, there I am, kidnapped and he offers me a 'bushcraft' knife and a 'survival' knife.......
which two are those then ?
and which wilderness ?
Tooo many variables.
cheers,
Toddy
and he offers me a 'bushcraft' knife and a 'survival' knife.......which two are those then ?
and which wilderness ?
Tooo many variables.
cheers,
Toddy
What I see before me here is generally a reflective dilemma where the suggested image of an inanimate object produces a subjective response.
I am certain that my opinion will rouse considerable scorn, and it may even provoke an opinion of my grave ignorance concerning bush-craft.
A bushcraft knife is practically the same as a survival knife. It is a knife with a blade of moderate length, such as 4 inches for example, with one blade. Most often the blade will be smooth, though in some cases it may have a segment that is serrated.
There are also likely to be some who think of either knife as always being serrated. Whether the blade is serrated of smooth in its practical use dictates the particulars of its usefulness in various specific applications. However, whether it is titled a bushcraft, survival, or some other name knife has mostly to do with the image the name provokes in one's mind. For those who think of themselves as bushcrafters, identifying their knife as a bushcraft knife is favourable. On the other hand, an idividual who thinks of themselves as a survivalist may term it a survival knife. Likewise, one who thinks of their image as being of an outdoors person may call their knife an outdoor knife.
I think this discussion would benefit from the establishment of detailed descriptions of what is meant specifically by the names used.
What type of knife do you think of when you say bush knife, or survival knife?
I am certain that my opinion will rouse considerable scorn, and it may even provoke an opinion of my grave ignorance concerning bush-craft.
A bushcraft knife is practically the same as a survival knife. It is a knife with a blade of moderate length, such as 4 inches for example, with one blade. Most often the blade will be smooth, though in some cases it may have a segment that is serrated.
There are also likely to be some who think of either knife as always being serrated. Whether the blade is serrated of smooth in its practical use dictates the particulars of its usefulness in various specific applications. However, whether it is titled a bushcraft, survival, or some other name knife has mostly to do with the image the name provokes in one's mind. For those who think of themselves as bushcrafters, identifying their knife as a bushcraft knife is favourable. On the other hand, an idividual who thinks of themselves as a survivalist may term it a survival knife. Likewise, one who thinks of their image as being of an outdoors person may call their knife an outdoor knife.
I think this discussion would benefit from the establishment of detailed descriptions of what is meant specifically by the names used.
What type of knife do you think of when you say bush knife, or survival knife?
Cat and pigeons here.
If I am in a survival situation and I have a bushcraft knife am I allowed to use it,and vice versa if I go to the woods to practice bushcraft and find that I have packed my survival knife ,do I have to go home?
If I am in a survival situation and I have a bushcraft knife am I allowed to use it,and vice versa if I go to the woods to practice bushcraft and find that I have packed my survival knife ,do I have to go home?
I spent a month living in the woods in a Bender, and the most versitle tool i have found would be a leuku hands down.
that would be a one tool option, idealy i would have a leuku, a 4" fixed knife, a saw and a hatchet.
that would be a one tool option, idealy i would have a leuku, a 4" fixed knife, a saw and a hatchet.
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I've only scanned through this thread so I apologise if I've missed it but...........
Can some one please define for me the difference between a survival knife and a bushcraft knife?
it seems to me that a knife is a knife. - as long as it is sharp and cuts what I require it to then that'll do me.
Andy
Can some one please define for me the difference between a survival knife and a bushcraft knife?
it seems to me that a knife is a knife. - as long as it is sharp and cuts what I require it to then that'll do me.
Andy
It depends on how you get onto the "survival" situation. If you just get lost for a short while then bushcraft is survival. On the other hand if your situation arises out of something like a plane crash or watercraft accident leaving you stranded until help arrives then the survival knife (particularly something like the Pilot's Survival Knife" might be handy. Those saw teeth on the back were actually designed to cut through aircraft aluminum to help you either escape the mangled aircraft or to salvage bits for use. Likewise the overly heavy butt is there to crack the plastic canopies and windows. Also this kinfe can be easily tied to a wooden shaft for use as a fish spear. However in the end survival=bushcraft assuming your not talking about military S.E.R.E. (Survival-Evasion-Resistance-Escape) and I don't think you are by the way you framed the question..
Actually I'd rather have a small axe
Actually I'd rather have a small axe
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I agree with most of what you have to say except you assessment of the Pilot's Survival Knife. I have never found it to be awkward for any task. It is made of 1095 carbon steel which is very close to #1 tool steel. The very steel all good knives were made from before stainless became popular. Stainless is actually the more useless blade material for anything other than a dedicated diving knife. Carbon steel always has been the steel of choice for durability without excess hardness (such hardness as in stainless makes them the hardest to sharpen and the brittlest).
survival knife is the one you have with you.
Bushcraft is the one you take for a somewhat planned trip. Designed for what you intend.
To me a survival knife must be able to chop, slice, hack, stab and skin. You should be able to fillet a fish, stab a wild boar, chop down a small tree for shelter, skin a rabbit, and as a last resort, fight with it. I know you can make a shelter by baton and 3" blade, but a 10" job would do it a bit quicker. Also sometimes you wouldn't have time for such finesse.
At the end of the day you are better off with a knife than without one, I make a point of carrying a knife everywhere, and I hope that it never has to become my survival knife because I'd hate to have to chop down a tree with my 400+ custom folding hunter.
Bushcraft is the one you take for a somewhat planned trip. Designed for what you intend.
To me a survival knife must be able to chop, slice, hack, stab and skin. You should be able to fillet a fish, stab a wild boar, chop down a small tree for shelter, skin a rabbit, and as a last resort, fight with it. I know you can make a shelter by baton and 3" blade, but a 10" job would do it a bit quicker. Also sometimes you wouldn't have time for such finesse.
At the end of the day you are better off with a knife than without one, I make a point of carrying a knife everywhere, and I hope that it never has to become my survival knife because I'd hate to have to chop down a tree with my 400+ custom folding hunter.
Bushcraft you plan . A bushcraft knife is a knife of your choice. It's a knife where you feel comfortable with. Survival situation's happen:yikes:.(look at Japan) A survival knife is the knife you use in a life-threatening situation (something you cary with you or you'll find on the way). I'll alway's have my leatherman wave with me.
I know my kukri is much better for chopping but I can't walk arround all day with a blade like that on my belt...just in case!
In Western Europe ( and some other places )
bushcraft = school, survival = exam
. A bushcraft knife is a knife of your choice. It's a knife where you feel comfortable with. Survival situation's happen:yikes:.(look at Japan) A survival knife is the knife you use in a life-threatening situation (something you cary with you or you'll find on the way). I'll alway's have my leatherman wave with me. I know my kukri is much better for chopping but I can't walk arround all day with a blade like that on my belt...just in case!
In Western Europe ( and some other places ) bushcraft = school, survival = exam
I've posted this elsewhere but I simply cannot separate many of the techniques and at least some of the mindset of survival from bushcraft, but I think folks overlook some of the more salient points here:
If you are carrying an outdoors knife then you better be in an outdoorsy situation. If you have one anywhere else (bank, school, university, office, etc, etc) then sooner or later you're going to get lifted and the local law enforcement agency will take a pretty dim view of any "just in case" argument you care to put forward.
Bushcraft is a leisure activity where you have the luxury of choice.
Survival is when circumstance catches you out, and not all survival situations need to entail a "dumped in the middle of nowhere in the wilderness" scenario.
Example 1: you go out for a weekend bushcraft wander. The weather catches you out, you got badly turned around and either didn't bring a map or managed somehow to lose it. Your bushcraft weekend has now become a low-level survival situation.
Example 2: same as Example 1 except serious weather blows in (insert any combination of wind and pouring rain, sleet, hail or snow in here and mix to taste) and your bushcraft weekend has become a much higher risk survival situation.
In either of the above two examples the kit you have with you and what you have between your ears should get you out the other end in one piece.
Example 3: select from any of the following (or create your own scenario) plane crash, shipwreck, fire in the lower stories of a skyscraper coupled with a power outage while you are stuck at or near the top of the building, a summer walk in the Lake District in excellent weather with little or no support gear and the wind gets up and a blizzard starts to blow (happens every year), swept off the rocks while sea fishing, Red Dawn style enemy invasion, day of the dead zombie hoards, blah, blah, etc, etc,.
Example 3 is hwere things start to take shape - this is survival in any one of a number of environments where you could be close to help but unable to reach it, or miles from anywhere without even knowing which country you are in. You could be injured (hopefully not) you could have other survivors in either small or even very large numbers, which changes the entire dynamic and presents its own problems and potential benefits, and you are unlikely to have one or more favourite cutting tools on your person. In fact, you should count yourself lucky if, after doing a quick inventory, you find you are in full possession of all of your limbs and motor functions.
By definition you ought to count yourself the luckiest person alive to have one or more cutting tools and any other kit if you find yourself in a true survival situation.
Many of the skills and at least some of the mindset have so many crossover points I find it more or less impossible to separate survival from bushcraft.
20 years or so ago if you said you did bushcraft nobody had a clue what you were going on about. If you said you did survival training you normally had to add a rider that you weren't a paramilitary nut to dispense with the first mental image that comes to mind when you mention the word survival. I used to teach and write about survival back then and it was always fascinating to watch how the meaning of so simple a word became so perverted over time
Strange how simple words manage to get so twisted...
Survival: drop dead grateful for any cutting tool, of any sort, with any brand name etched onto it.
Bushcraft: Kukri, machete or medium axe (not necessarily in that order) and a small, thin and sharp knife would be great, thanks.
Kitting out your vehicle, plane, boat et al with survival gear makes a ton of sense.
Wandering around kitted up to the gills with personal survival gear is guaranteed to get you into hot water with the authorities at some point, so good luck with that...
I'll get my coat...
If you are carrying an outdoors knife then you better be in an outdoorsy situation. If you have one anywhere else (bank, school, university, office, etc, etc) then sooner or later you're going to get lifted and the local law enforcement agency will take a pretty dim view of any "just in case" argument you care to put forward.
Bushcraft is a leisure activity where you have the luxury of choice.
Survival is when circumstance catches you out, and not all survival situations need to entail a "dumped in the middle of nowhere in the wilderness" scenario.
Example 1: you go out for a weekend bushcraft wander. The weather catches you out, you got badly turned around and either didn't bring a map or managed somehow to lose it. Your bushcraft weekend has now become a low-level survival situation.
Example 2: same as Example 1 except serious weather blows in (insert any combination of wind and pouring rain, sleet, hail or snow in here and mix to taste) and your bushcraft weekend has become a much higher risk survival situation.
In either of the above two examples the kit you have with you and what you have between your ears should get you out the other end in one piece.
Example 3: select from any of the following (or create your own scenario) plane crash, shipwreck, fire in the lower stories of a skyscraper coupled with a power outage while you are stuck at or near the top of the building, a summer walk in the Lake District in excellent weather with little or no support gear and the wind gets up and a blizzard starts to blow (happens every year), swept off the rocks while sea fishing, Red Dawn style enemy invasion, day of the dead zombie hoards, blah, blah, etc, etc,.
Example 3 is hwere things start to take shape - this is survival in any one of a number of environments where you could be close to help but unable to reach it, or miles from anywhere without even knowing which country you are in. You could be injured (hopefully not) you could have other survivors in either small or even very large numbers, which changes the entire dynamic and presents its own problems and potential benefits, and you are unlikely to have one or more favourite cutting tools on your person. In fact, you should count yourself lucky if, after doing a quick inventory, you find you are in full possession of all of your limbs and motor functions.
By definition you ought to count yourself the luckiest person alive to have one or more cutting tools and any other kit if you find yourself in a true survival situation.
Many of the skills and at least some of the mindset have so many crossover points I find it more or less impossible to separate survival from bushcraft.
20 years or so ago if you said you did bushcraft nobody had a clue what you were going on about. If you said you did survival training you normally had to add a rider that you weren't a paramilitary nut to dispense with the first mental image that comes to mind when you mention the word survival. I used to teach and write about survival back then and it was always fascinating to watch how the meaning of so simple a word became so perverted over time
Strange how simple words manage to get so twisted...
Survival: drop dead grateful for any cutting tool, of any sort, with any brand name etched onto it.
Bushcraft: Kukri, machete or medium axe (not necessarily in that order) and a small, thin and sharp knife would be great, thanks.
Kitting out your vehicle, plane, boat et al with survival gear makes a ton of sense.
Wandering around kitted up to the gills with personal survival gear is guaranteed to get you into hot water with the authorities at some point, so good luck with that...
I'll get my coat...
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