Survival situation - what would you do?

[Pattree]

Google:
Desert survival exercise. There are loads of them published by all sorts of organisations.

Edited to add:
I bet someone has turned up and said: ’I’ve seen this on the internet and the answer is………’

This means that they’ve lost maybe 45 minutes of their programme (I sincerely hope that they didn’t spend more than that on this one!)

One of the issues with exercises like this is that they become known and the training organisations have to find or create new ones. Whenever a good (popular/fun) one appeared we all used to grab it and try to use it.
I once set a communication exercise but a guy from Ford had already talked to my course at the bar on the previous evening. They finished in about 20 seconds. That’s life and a good trainer uses it and carries on.

 

[Jared]

Yeah, there are many variations, remember a NASA moon survival scenario used in group software developer job interview.

Bet in a short amount of time, can get AI to spit out a survival scenarios and kits lists to order and pick from.

 

[TeeDee]

I will have a read of this later.

Personally I don't mind these thought exercises no matter how random or banal they may seem on first glance - its at least an opportunity to have a thought exercise and apply some grey cell lube to a scenario.

 

[Chris]

From ChatGPT:

 

[Jared]

Yes. If it's on the internet, likely every AI has consumed it as training data. So will reply with some variation.

 

[Glow_worm]

@Chris That could be the answer-businesses specialising in writing these scenarios and selling them as products are redundant, and the staff now have to fill their days chasing around the internet for 'vintage' scenarios and trying to get them taken down?

 

[Chris]

Yes. If it's on the internet, likely every AI has consumed it as training data. So will reply with some variation.

I think the ChatGPT version is different enough to suggest that the one listed in the OP is not by any means the only one available online and that suggestions of 'copyright infringement' by someone briefly sharing a summary of an event they partook in are beyond ridiculous.

 

[Pattree]

The AI version is interesting. Mobile phones were big brick type things when I was a consultant.
Anyone using that exercise without taking account of all the survival tools on the team’s mobile phones would be like an exercise based upon the idea that a wheel has come off your carriage in the middle of Sherwood Forest and the horses have bolted!

 

[Jared]

I think the ChatGPT version is different enough to suggest that the one listed in the OP is not by any means the only one available online and that suggestions of 'copyright infringement' by someone briefly sharing a summary of an event they partook in are beyond ridiculous.

Yeah, it's sort of an average of all the similar scenarios.

Pretty sure there is a free use defense to the copyright infringement anyway. The OP was post was for starting a discussion.
Like posting a short clip from a movie, and adding commentary to make it transformative.

Here in the UK, cassetteboy vs guardian case over a decade ago made it so even commentary wasn't required.

cassetteboy

We're doing a comedy disco with DJ Rubbish, mixing pop hits with people off the telly. Book us for your Students Union, club night, birthday or funeral (probably not funeral). Some actual real people who saw us when we did it in Edinburgh said this sort of thing on Twitter afterwards: "never...

www.youtube.com

 

[Dogoak]

I was using a very, very similar scenario 40 years ago (No Solar chargers in those days!) on development courses, IIRC it came from a ex USAF survival instructor.
Used in group sessions it wasn’t used as survival training, more to do with communication and interactions within the team discussing it. It didn’t half get heated sometimes which was all good fodder for the debrief and subsequent development goals.
There was quite a few different but similar variations of this exercise being used at a few outdoor centres at that time.

 

[Jared]

Yes, the gun was the bone of contention.

If you are on the moon, one side is why do you need a gun, nothing to protect yourself from.
And the other is well we have limited medical, so if someone was dying in a particularly slow and painful manner, you could use it.

 

[Pattree]

The big divide in my sessions seemed to be walk or stay.

My version only had a litre of water between the team and that got interesting.

For my purposes there was no right answer it was the interactions and participation that mattered.

Of course we had interventions that altered the case if it started to stagnate.

Tony, only you can judge the seriousness of their complaint but I don’t think they have a claim and are bullying.
The exercise itself is useless given that lists of “correct” answers are available to someone as foo-less as me.

 

[Glow_worm]

It's difficult to see how an 'expert' can give a 'correct' answer either, even if they had survived this very situation in reality, there's no knowing if taking another series of actions would have resulted in quicker rescue, less trauma etc.

But thought excercises are fun, and can find flaws or omissions in kit or knowledge...

 

[The Frightful]

This 15 year old thread is being resurrected by me because I keep getting threatening letters from
Michael Kern, J.D.
Human Synergistics, Intl.

I've had 8 emails from them telling me to remove copyright material. It's standard letter.

What I find interesting is that the OP (Bob) was writing about his own experience of the course and if anything it's a promotion of the course/company.

So that everyone is aware, we are not passing off anything from Human Synergistics as ours, no one is passing off anything as theirs so please do not presume we Bushcraft Uk or any of the members here are doing so.

THIRD & FINAL NOTIFICATION! (Actually the 8th!)Copyright Infringement for Desert & SubarcticSurvival Simulation​

Subarctic J&J only http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/ranking-items-for-survival-after-a-plane-crash.240034/
Desert https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/survival-situation-what-would-you-do.65144/
Desert http://bushcraftuk.com/community/in...ituation-what-would-you-do.65144/#post-789722
Desert http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-65144.html?s=d56ee8f92ea0c884448551f3254dbe41

We are writing a third time to inform you that your organization’s website currently features unauthorized content related to our product, Desert and Subarctic Survival Situation. This content is owned by Human Synergistics, International and is protected under United States copyright law.

The unauthorized use, reproduction, or distribution of our copyrighted materials without our prior written consent constitutes a violation of Human Synergistics, Intl.’s intellectual property rights. This infringement is a serious matter, as copyright laws under the U.S. Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. § 501) protect our content against unauthorized use. Violations may result in penalties, including statutory damages up to $150,000 per work in cases of willful infringement, as well as potential liability for legal fees.

We ask that your organization immediately take down all materials related to Human Synergistics, International’s Subarctic Survival Simulation from your website and any other online platforms controlled by your organization. Failure to comply may result in Human Synergistics, Intl. taking legal action to protect our rights.

I have a good-faith belief, and am sure that the disputed use is not authorized by Human Synergistics International.

The above information is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, Human Synergistics International is the owner of an exclusive right that is infringed, and I am authorized to act on the owner’s behalf.

Please confirm in writing or by email that you have removed all infringing materials by February 10, 2025. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
Michael Kern, J.D.
Human Synergistics, Intl.
39819 Plymouth Rd
Plymouth, MI 48170
847-704-6351
dlo@humansynergistics.com

Obviously all 12 died hence the reason he's so touchy ! Typical Sherman corporate chap trying to justify his position because his dept is very quiet atm, bet he hasn't done the course either.
( No offence intended to US citizens on here, I jest )

 

[TeeDee]

Yes, the gun was the bone of contention.

If you are on the moon, one side is why do you need a gun, nothing to protect yourself from.
And the other is well we have limited medical, so if someone was dying in a particularly slow and painful manner, you could use it.

Wasn't the idea that in low gravity environments where you had to cross a distance of terrain in quick time one " could " ( in theory ) use the gun(s) to create inertia to propel oneself like little retro rockets


BS I appreciate but i remember this as a possible plausible answer,

 

[Broch]

Wasn't the idea that in low gravity environments where you had to cross a distance of terrain in quick time one " could " ( in theory ) use the gun(s) to create inertia to propel oneself like little retro rockets


BS I appreciate but i remember this as a possible plausible answer,

I'm glad you put that last line in

 

[Nice65]

Yeah, it's sort of an average of all the similar scenarios.

Pretty sure there is a free use defense to the copyright infringement anyway. The OP was post was for starting a discussion.
Like posting a short clip from a movie, and adding commentary to make it transformative.

Here in the UK, cassetteboy vs guardian case over a decade ago made it so even commentary wasn't required.

cassetteboy

We're doing a comedy disco with DJ Rubbish, mixing pop hits with people off the telly. Book us for your Students Union, club night, birthday or funeral (probably not funeral). Some actual real people who saw us when we did it in Edinburgh said this sort of thing on Twitter afterwards: "never...

www.youtube.com

‘There, I Ruined It’ has also been fighting slightly miffed musicians, or the owners of their music . I’ll put the channel because it’s brilliant, as far as I know this one hasn’t been challenged, but a Johnny Cash mashup was.

 

[TeeDee]

I'm glad you put that last line in

My new goto mantra is

" If its good enough for Hollywood, Its good enough for me. "

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

Wow. As the original poster I didn't think this thread would gather so much response.
It was just to gather people's thoughts and if I had known it was going to create so much hassle for Tony I would have never posted it.

Right, I'm off to post another one I had to do about surviving in an arctic environment with only a dozen items after another plane crash. Probably the same airline, I won't be using them again.

 

[haptalaon]

My inclination would be to make shelter and await rescue, conserving energy albeit ensuring you have made sufficient signals to be spotted from the air.

That's a good angle to consider.

I've read a fair number of disaster memoirs now, and as far as I can tell the rule is

1. If everything is going to plan, shelter in place. That's much safer, preserves resources and strength, you're easier to find.

2. If something has gone horribly wrong, somebody is going to have to hike out of there and get help/you are going to need to rescue yourself

And of course the difficulty is you never know which one you're in.

Generally survivors in disaster memoirs only make it because someone made it over the mountain/back to base camp/etc and raised the alarm; it's the failure of the systems that protect you in scenario 1 which turn it into a full on disaster.