Somewhere out there must be societies which have little of a homeless problem.
Maybe we should ask why?
Maybe we should ask why?
How would you fix the Homeless crisis.?
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Family structure.
Ours was the first industrialised nation and it shattered not just clan and tribal bonds but family ones too.
Ours was the first industrialised nation and it shattered not just clan and tribal bonds but family ones too.
I think that part of it is that the narrative pushed is global and far beyond anyone's control these days. Look in the news and you'll see all these terrible and horrific things which are happening, but you can do nothing about it.
Yet in reality, if you ignored the media and just concentrated on what is going on directly around you, in your local community, you'll find plenty of things that can be done to help others and make that community slightly better. If we all did that, I dare say we'd have a lot fewer problems including those which involve homelessness. And the world overall would be a better place for it.
Yet in reality, if you ignored the media and just concentrated on what is going on directly around you, in your local community, you'll find plenty of things that can be done to help others and make that community slightly better. If we all did that, I dare say we'd have a lot fewer problems including those which involve homelessness. And the world overall would be a better place for it.
It's a difficult one.
As others have said, there is a (probably small) proportion of homeless people that are not socialised, and there's good reasons why no-one wants them living next door. My sister lived on a "bad" council estate for a while, and I saw at first hand how a small number of people can make life bad for everyone. They need boundaries but don't get them.
There's a whole chunk of people with various addictions- some who will be dealing to fund their habit. Arguably the schools system focusing on academic routes and too much automation is a root cause- especially when combined with unrealistic expectations driven by social media. One persons efficiency is another persons lack of a job after all, and why don't we have more respect for those who do important manual jobs (such as emptying the bins and clearing drainage ditches)?. What do you do with yourself if you will never have the skills for anything other than a manual job but there's no manual jobs to be had? Welfare might feed you, but where's the sense of belonging, self-worth? (The former coal mining and steel making areas are a case in point. Break the community socialization, and breakdown of social order tends to follow, I worry about what will happen in Port Talbot now).
Housing: there's actually quite a lot of it, but a combination of AirBNB, holiday cottages, second homes and empty properties makes a lot unavailable. Houses need to be seen as a a home, not an "investment." Perhaps those better off need to take fewer holidays (reduce demand on holiday properties). Also, the costs of bringing an older empty property back into use are not to be underestimated. Yes there's grants.... but I speak from experience when I say that they are (a) not easy to get, (b) unrealistic timescales for the bigger jobs and (c) the amount is woefully inadequate for some places.
Investment property: well it might help a lot if property- land as well as housing- had to be owned by a natural person who was tax resident in the UK (unless they were a registered UK based social landlord or they were the direct owner of a farm and worked it themself). That would get land values back to agricultural levels and push the large investment companies out. The carbon credits offsetting business also needs similar controls for the same reason. There's also IMO a case for a wider adoption of low impact eco communities like Lammas and relaxing Building Regs for such places.
Jobs outside London. Scrap HS2 and move the jobs to where the housing is. Oh, and sort out the energy, water/sewage treatment and transport issues in a practical rather than a dogmatic way.
Finally, I will also point out that bringing in nearly a million mainly unskilled people in a decade will strain any welfare system and infrastructure as well as impacting the local culture if a community receives a disproportionatly large influx of folk with a differnt culture to theirs. If a decision is made that we need migrants then this needs to be properly transparent and discussed, and the government of the day needs to plan properly for doing so, not just name-call anyone with concerns and then dump incoming folk in hotels in the more deprived areas. That's the practical view- and one that keeps getting forgotten because it's taboo to even consider that unmanaged migration has any downsides.
Combination of all of those needed,. I don't think it's a capitalist vs communist thing, or even a left wing vs right wing thing.... more the privledged few (a surprising number of whom regard themself as "left wing" and "socialist") and the big corporations vs the rest of us.
I have tried to be non-poliical; in truth I don't do politics because it's all about identity and postioning whereas what I would like to see is some proper practical solutions.
GC
As others have said, there is a (probably small) proportion of homeless people that are not socialised, and there's good reasons why no-one wants them living next door. My sister lived on a "bad" council estate for a while, and I saw at first hand how a small number of people can make life bad for everyone. They need boundaries but don't get them.
There's a whole chunk of people with various addictions- some who will be dealing to fund their habit. Arguably the schools system focusing on academic routes and too much automation is a root cause- especially when combined with unrealistic expectations driven by social media. One persons efficiency is another persons lack of a job after all, and why don't we have more respect for those who do important manual jobs (such as emptying the bins and clearing drainage ditches)?. What do you do with yourself if you will never have the skills for anything other than a manual job but there's no manual jobs to be had? Welfare might feed you, but where's the sense of belonging, self-worth? (The former coal mining and steel making areas are a case in point. Break the community socialization, and breakdown of social order tends to follow, I worry about what will happen in Port Talbot now).
Housing: there's actually quite a lot of it, but a combination of AirBNB, holiday cottages, second homes and empty properties makes a lot unavailable. Houses need to be seen as a a home, not an "investment." Perhaps those better off need to take fewer holidays (reduce demand on holiday properties). Also, the costs of bringing an older empty property back into use are not to be underestimated. Yes there's grants.... but I speak from experience when I say that they are (a) not easy to get, (b) unrealistic timescales for the bigger jobs and (c) the amount is woefully inadequate for some places.
Investment property: well it might help a lot if property- land as well as housing- had to be owned by a natural person who was tax resident in the UK (unless they were a registered UK based social landlord or they were the direct owner of a farm and worked it themself). That would get land values back to agricultural levels and push the large investment companies out. The carbon credits offsetting business also needs similar controls for the same reason. There's also IMO a case for a wider adoption of low impact eco communities like Lammas and relaxing Building Regs for such places.
Jobs outside London. Scrap HS2 and move the jobs to where the housing is. Oh, and sort out the energy, water/sewage treatment and transport issues in a practical rather than a dogmatic way.
Finally, I will also point out that bringing in nearly a million mainly unskilled people in a decade will strain any welfare system and infrastructure as well as impacting the local culture if a community receives a disproportionatly large influx of folk with a differnt culture to theirs. If a decision is made that we need migrants then this needs to be properly transparent and discussed, and the government of the day needs to plan properly for doing so, not just name-call anyone with concerns and then dump incoming folk in hotels in the more deprived areas. That's the practical view- and one that keeps getting forgotten because it's taboo to even consider that unmanaged migration has any downsides.
Combination of all of those needed,. I don't think it's a capitalist vs communist thing, or even a left wing vs right wing thing.... more the privledged few (a surprising number of whom regard themself as "left wing" and "socialist") and the big corporations vs the rest of us.
I have tried to be non-poliical; in truth I don't do politics because it's all about identity and postioning whereas what I would like to see is some proper practical solutions.
GC
Im looking for a place in the Highlands...a part of the country that for the first time in 400 years the population is increasing.
Its a conservation area, so little development. (They seem to make an exception for the odd `Eco` home) and it was sold off as holiday lets when folk didnt want to live there.
(Not second homes, as its beyond their prices).
Im probably going to end up in a flat. (Having sold a house)
BUT...I can at least have that.
Its a conservation area, so little development. (They seem to make an exception for the odd `Eco` home) and it was sold off as holiday lets when folk didnt want to live there.
(Not second homes, as its beyond their prices).
Im probably going to end up in a flat. (Having sold a house)
BUT...I can at least have that.
First and foremost we have a small population and therefore much fewer homeless people.
Population London 9M, Helsinki 1.5M.
Population London 9M, Helsinki 1.5M.
I've seen that before and it makes some very good points about the most important thing that sends people into a downward spiral is housing insecurity.
Having a base you can rely on allows people to come out of addiction, get a job and have some stability.
I'm not sure the slightly spitefull nature of the British public (why should I have to work while they get housing for nowt ect blah blah blah) will help them.
Being more stable often reduces overall cost to the country in less money spent on the NHS, less spent in prisons, policing and a sorts.
I'm all for giving it a good go.
From memory I think Labour (our new government) has announced increased spending to prevent homelessness but I've not looked up the details yet.
Our sitting government is very right wing (in finnish measure) and is cutting funding for a lot of things and cutting social security money all over so I´m not sure the above video is valid anymore. Finland is very deep in debt so I guess the government does what it has to. Finlands market has not grown in 15 years.
A bit of gross generalization I feel there. We all have different experiences of people and generosity and I guess homelessness.
Which part was the generalisation? The amount of the British public who can't stand someone else 'getting summat for nowt" which I've seen people complain about pretty regularly or that helping people get on their feet might actually reduce overall cost to the nation?
I'm still all for giving homeless people a.hand up to the position where they can begin to have some stability in their lives.
This is in no way shape or form a large sample size but the homeless people I found living under a bridge last year had addiction issues, had been in a fair bit of trouble with the law and were basically about as far down as its possible to get.
They're still humans and in my eyes just needed a bit of a hand up.
Not all homeless people are in the same boat, thats obvious but the main problem with "Homelessness" is in the title, being homeless is hard to get out of.
Ahh, well it's possible you just come into contact with some nicer people eh?
The argument I've seen on a number of occasions is that "They're getting summat for nowt while I slave away going to work".
It's not one I agree with and personally find it a little distasteful.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that a country can be measured by how it treats it's least well off, sort of a countrywide No Person Left Behind kind of thing but some people can't seem to enjoy something nice unless someone else has less to enjoy.
I don't really get that but I definitely see it.
Somehow I get the feeling that we're basically arguing more or less for the same thing but from a slightly different angle.
Pretty sure the UK is considered one of the most charitable nations.
It's interesting to note the trajectory of this graph for the UKs homeless population, in 2010 it was lessening but then took an upward turnfrom late 2010 to at least 2023.
I can't possibly imagine what significant change happened in 2010, ahem.
Click Here.
Then this one shows the homelessness rate in 2023 comparing a few countries, its not great for the UK.
Here.
Then here's homelessness by gender which shows that in the UK there's more women than men who are homeless.
Here.
I can't possibly imagine what significant change happened in 2010, ahem.
Click Here.
Then this one shows the homelessness rate in 2023 comparing a few countries, its not great for the UK.
Here.
Then here's homelessness by gender which shows that in the UK there's more women than men who are homeless.
Here.
I think its possibly , as we are entertaining such hypotheticals that you seem inclined to default to a more polarizing view and standpoint based upon your beliefs as opposed to evidence.
Anyway - its Xmas time. And I'm less wiling to engage in difficult conversation any further than need be.
It is even more interesting if one takes a slightly longer time frame. It fell a long way to 2010, but went up pretty steeply in the late 90s, and has wobbled along at a lower level since.
England statutory homelessness 2024 | Statista
In 2023/24 approximately 64,960 households in England were accepted for main homeless duties, whereby the relevant local authority deemed the applicant to be unintentionally homeless and eligible for assistance.
www.statista.com
I have been homeless as a youngster in the 70s. No one wanted to know in those days, and there was no official help of any sort.
I ended up in hospital with pneumonia, and if it had not been for a kind nurse, noticing me crying and taking the time to find out why, then using her own time and money to find me a bedsit, and pay the first weeks rent and deposit, I would have been back on the streets. I did have a very low paid job in a supermarket, but the new bedsit was 11 miles away, and I had no transport, and couldn't afford the public transport, by the time I'd paid rent and some very basic food so I had to walk 2 miles before I could begin hitching to try and get to work by 8am( in the middle of a snowy winter) and I worked as much overtime as I could, and reversed the journey at 9pm. Getting home often at 10 or 11pm.
I saved and got a ratty, illegal moped, and then found a better paid job nearer to where I lived. Got the moped legal, and lived from hand to mouth for the next year or so, while I saved, got better transport, and eventualy a boyfriend who after 2 yrs, living in a mobile home to save money, we bought a house. That took five years. Sadly we split up and I was forced to move out..homeless again.
I've been close to homelessness many times since, living in realy manky, or seasonal bedsits with undesirable neighbours. I've realy only had a stable home for the last 25 yrs, and as its rented there is always a feeling that I could end up homeless again if something went wrong.
In fact, my h/a tried very hard to make me move out after I lost my family, just as the bedroom tax came in. Once again, struggle to pay the rent, but I was determined to stay, so I did without whatever I could, (tv for instance) to stay.
Now I'm a pensioner, the bedroom tax no longer applies, so that is one weight off. Do I feel secure? No I don't. Years of stress and struggle, worry and being bullied or told I have to leave, have left a deep mark on me.
Attitude towards homeless people leaves a lot to be desired, even a bedsit is never secure. So security of tenure is something that needs to be looked at.
Oh, and second homes left empty most of the year. Just visit Cornwall in the winter...that peace and quiet is because every second house.. or more is empty of local residents, and the owners are elsewhere, using it for air b&b so you can have that empty town peaceful experience to make yet more money and their own holidays. While locals can't work as they have no homes and have to move into crappy bedsits in another area to be able to get a job. Houseprices meanwhile keep rising as they are sold on to other outsiders for bigger a nd bigger profits.
Don't get me started on the migrant hotels, where they, laze about at taxpayers expense and are fed, shod, warm and cosy while veterans , youngsters and others, are on the streets and pensioners have to choose between warmth or food.
Sorry, if this last bit is regarded as a political statement, but we do need to acknowledge the truth of the matter before looking at solutions. Those hotels should be used for our own people, and a stop put to these economical migrants who cause chaos on our once fine streets. There you have it.
My opinion as someone who has been at the sharp edge of this problem for more years than I care to remember. Lived experience, political or otherwise.
I ended up in hospital with pneumonia, and if it had not been for a kind nurse, noticing me crying and taking the time to find out why, then using her own time and money to find me a bedsit, and pay the first weeks rent and deposit, I would have been back on the streets. I did have a very low paid job in a supermarket, but the new bedsit was 11 miles away, and I had no transport, and couldn't afford the public transport, by the time I'd paid rent and some very basic food so I had to walk 2 miles before I could begin hitching to try and get to work by 8am( in the middle of a snowy winter) and I worked as much overtime as I could, and reversed the journey at 9pm. Getting home often at 10 or 11pm.
I saved and got a ratty, illegal moped, and then found a better paid job nearer to where I lived. Got the moped legal, and lived from hand to mouth for the next year or so, while I saved, got better transport, and eventualy a boyfriend who after 2 yrs, living in a mobile home to save money, we bought a house. That took five years. Sadly we split up and I was forced to move out..homeless again.
I've been close to homelessness many times since, living in realy manky, or seasonal bedsits with undesirable neighbours. I've realy only had a stable home for the last 25 yrs, and as its rented there is always a feeling that I could end up homeless again if something went wrong.
In fact, my h/a tried very hard to make me move out after I lost my family, just as the bedroom tax came in. Once again, struggle to pay the rent, but I was determined to stay, so I did without whatever I could, (tv for instance) to stay.
Now I'm a pensioner, the bedroom tax no longer applies, so that is one weight off. Do I feel secure? No I don't. Years of stress and struggle, worry and being bullied or told I have to leave, have left a deep mark on me.
Attitude towards homeless people leaves a lot to be desired, even a bedsit is never secure. So security of tenure is something that needs to be looked at.
Oh, and second homes left empty most of the year. Just visit Cornwall in the winter...that peace and quiet is because every second house.. or more is empty of local residents, and the owners are elsewhere, using it for air b&b so you can have that empty town peaceful experience to make yet more money and their own holidays. While locals can't work as they have no homes and have to move into crappy bedsits in another area to be able to get a job. Houseprices meanwhile keep rising as they are sold on to other outsiders for bigger a nd bigger profits.
Don't get me started on the migrant hotels, where they, laze about at taxpayers expense and are fed, shod, warm and cosy while veterans , youngsters and others, are on the streets and pensioners have to choose between warmth or food.
Sorry, if this last bit is regarded as a political statement, but we do need to acknowledge the truth of the matter before looking at solutions. Those hotels should be used for our own people, and a stop put to these economical migrants who cause chaos on our once fine streets. There you have it.
My opinion as someone who has been at the sharp edge of this problem for more years than I care to remember. Lived experience, political or otherwise.
Hi @Woody girl,
Saw this piece in a paper.
uk.news.yahoo.com
Aligns some with what you say about homeless vs migrant.
Saw this piece in a paper.
Cardiff’s homelessness shame is a wretched microcosm of broken Britain
Under the falling light of a cold December afternoon, a woman in her 50s slumps on a cracked pavement, doubled up in pain. In an ill-fitting pair of tracksuit bottoms, one of her legs is exposed to the elements, revealing alarming looking black blotches on skin striped with varicose veins. She...
I was proactive after my experience helping homeless, and I would take time to sit on the pavement and talk to those souls. I've heard some awful stories believe me. I'd always buy the big issue, and every year I'd pack a rucksack with essential quality camping equipment that I'd buy in charity shops, also clothes, especially aiming it towards women.
Now, every big issue seller I come across is looking well fed, clean, and dressed in warm clothes, and can barely speak English.
I've stopped the rucksacks when I discovered they were going to economic migrants.
I'm not against migrants, I know it can be tough in a new country, but I've only ever begged once to get food for my dog.
I had two days without money and no food for myself, but I did what I had to for my best friend.
I guess I've always been a fighter, and managed to get where I needed to be eventualy, but its soul destroying trying to do it.
No wonder some give up or succumb to apathy and despair when they are walked past as if they don't exist and are treated like vermin.
I'm a tuff cookie, and have a fighting spirit, but that doesn't mean I haven't tried to end things on more than one occasion.
I've worked hard to establish a bit of security over many years, doesn't mean it won't end tomorrow.
The solution is to close the borders, get rid of the paperless dingy divers who are conning their way in and being freely given recourses that belong to us by birthright, and paid taxes, and that will free up a million spaces per year instantly, then deal with the air b& b, and second home issue, returning local homes to local people at localy affordable prices, rather than national averages.
We don't need to turn farmland into housing estates. We have enough, it's just the prices of even renting and rougue landlords, buying up huge portfolios, and profiting from less fortunate people who are basically paying their multi mortgages, and will never be able to get their own, even if the mortgage repayment is less than their rent outgoings.
Now, every big issue seller I come across is looking well fed, clean, and dressed in warm clothes, and can barely speak English.
I've stopped the rucksacks when I discovered they were going to economic migrants.
I'm not against migrants, I know it can be tough in a new country, but I've only ever begged once to get food for my dog.
I had two days without money and no food for myself, but I did what I had to for my best friend.
I guess I've always been a fighter, and managed to get where I needed to be eventualy, but its soul destroying trying to do it.
No wonder some give up or succumb to apathy and despair when they are walked past as if they don't exist and are treated like vermin.
I'm a tuff cookie, and have a fighting spirit, but that doesn't mean I haven't tried to end things on more than one occasion.
I've worked hard to establish a bit of security over many years, doesn't mean it won't end tomorrow.
The solution is to close the borders, get rid of the paperless dingy divers who are conning their way in and being freely given recourses that belong to us by birthright, and paid taxes, and that will free up a million spaces per year instantly, then deal with the air b& b, and second home issue, returning local homes to local people at localy affordable prices, rather than national averages.
We don't need to turn farmland into housing estates. We have enough, it's just the prices of even renting and rougue landlords, buying up huge portfolios, and profiting from less fortunate people who are basically paying their multi mortgages, and will never be able to get their own, even if the mortgage repayment is less than their rent outgoings.
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