Summary Of Responses On Adding Further Weapons To The Offensive Weapons Order

[Cairodel]

Dammit man - I can spell!
Just not type or proofread........or be bothered finding the spell check....
Not ignorant, just lazy is my excuse and I am sticking to it!

Sorry John, that was the only mistook eye cood find....

Proofreading and editing is part of my job, and I make mistakes
every now and then.. doesn't eveybody..!?!
I have to say that I despair when I read SOME posts.....:Wow:

 

[JonnyP]

I happen to agree with H2o where he says about the Samurai swords only use is to cause injury or death (or words to that effect), but if some like to collect things like that then thats up to them, in my opinion. He is also right that there is no place in bushcraft for such items, but Red is right that it may not stop at just the swords going, and such items that we as bushcrafters use may be next, so we need to keep an eye on it all, at least...
Very interesting thread this....

 

[John Fenna]

Dammit man - I should be able to do this - I write for three mags and have written eight books!
However I get my wife to type, proofread (and correct my grammar) in every case.....
Last of the lazy men?

 

[Cairodel]

Should be a comma after "however" John...

Titles of your books..????

 

[British Red]

And very good your articles are John - although I've found GM has gone off a bit of late - needs more of your "country" page I feel. Although there does seem to have been a few more "critical" reviews in the last year which is nice - always a fine line I guess between alienating manufacturers and panning tat

Red

 

[John Fenna]

Aaaaaaaaaaaagh!


Heritage Walks in Pembrokeshire (out of print)
Discovery Walks in Carmarthenshire (out of print)
Discovering Pembrokeshire by bicycle (Gomer Press)
Longer Walks in Pembrokeshire (Accent Press)

A Basic Guide to Making Your Own Outdoor Activity Clothing
" " " " " " " " Equipment
" " " " " " Fleece and Pile Fibre Clothing
" " " " " " Open Canoe Accessories
- these last four all self published and only the last now available by special order from me.
No swords involved!
Back to the theme of the thread!

 

[Cairodel]

Congratulations on the publifactions, John. (just threw that in for good measure..!?!)
I'll see if I can find anything next time I'm over....
I think this thread has just about worn itself out, don't you..??

 

[Dougster]

Enforce the laws we have and we will not need more laws!

John, that is far too sensible mate. We couldn't possibly do that.

 

[Dougster]

as I'm sure Dougster will agree
...LOL....!?!

I just like punctuation, any punctuation, so I can draw breath..............

 

[Dougster]

I think this thread has just about worn itself out, don't you..??

Well............................................

 

[sharp88]

There bringing police checks into airgun clubs now. Sucks for me because Iv been told I cant shoot until they'v checked me out - Iv made 3 journeys without shooting there. Curse the old buerocrats. Beware newcombers alike.

Truth is, you can fairly easily get a firearm on the street, without even knowing the right people. It will probarbly cost you an arm and a leg but all you'd have to do is ask around. How about getting the Uzis, AKs, Agram2000s, etc off the street aye policemen? Stop eating donuts n kebabs n do somthing about it. As soon as the media puts somthing in the newspaper - people panic and thus the government makes an illusion to make the people think theres somthing being done. The truth of it all is innocents like me suffer the irritating consequences, like an overbearing wait to get into there airgun club!

As for swords, who needs them, they make fine ornaments but there not a practical tool and have no use but looking good on your mantle. Then again there not easily concealed. I bet more people get killed with stanley knives.

 

[FGYT]

all though i dont agree with the proposed bann at all

what makes it worse and in my mind Stupid beyond belief and most kids would to if explained
is that they ARE not banning all swords they arnt even banning all repro chepo swords

either swords are dangerous or they arnt

bit like saying we are going to stop Van use by criminals by banning green Transits but no other colours or makes etc

They wont just blanket ban as that would unit all other users together we already have martial artist users saying its oks it wont affect me i use a real sword etc or reinactors the same but it will eventually (they may still bann all Samuri swords and have no exemptions for real or collectors)

teh argument that swords are only used to kill is rubbish there are probably Millions of them in the country right now and bar the media flashing sensationalising it their use to kill is virtually non existant 200 - 250 deaths a year for all blade crime out of 65 plus Million people. let alone the small % of these that use swords and the smaller % that use this particular type and a cheap one.

If the gov want to actually stop PEOPLE causig crime make it an unaceptable risk to them to commit it.
IF a sword weilding maniac gets shot in the street Dont Witch Hunt the copper who took the shot pat him on the back and say well done and make sure he gets the propper support for being forced to take a life


Duncan

 

[Tadpole]

Just to put a different point of view, in the UK there are on average 19 deaths a month where the weapon used is a bladed weapon, now to all those who think 19 is not that great a number, what if it was your father, son, daughter, mother, it then takes on a whole new meaning. That is just the deaths, according to British National Martial Arts Association; there are over 54,000 ‘attacks’ with a bladed weapon a year, just in London. In one east London hospital there were “309 knife injuries; 259 patients were admitted, 184 were operated on, and eight died. The chest was the most common area injured, most patients were men, and mean age was 28”
Of the two and three quarter million violent crimes reported, 75% involve some kind of weapon (38% of the people involved were wounded and 2% of the wounds were classed as serious,) 30% of murders are committed with bladed weapons.

What is the difference between a knife or bladed implement and a bladed weapon?
Intent, your intent.
27,000 people require treatment for table knife injuries each year, and 7,800 people were injured by a meat carving knife, when will the government make it illegal for butchers to sell meat that require the purchaser to cut it up for themselves.
Stick a sword in a glass case and look at it, fine. Take it to a school and flash it about, not so fine. Even then if like some on this board you make your living educating kids in history, then it comes down to intent, the big question “Why do you want a sword?”

 

[-Switch-]

Truth is, you can fairly easily get a firearm on the street, without even knowing the right people. It will probarbly cost you an arm and a leg but all you'd have to do is ask around.

Unfortunately untrue.

Actually, the first part of your post is true - it's unbelievably easy to get hold of a gun in the UK. The comment about the cost is the part I would question.
£350 for a .357 Desert Eagle anyone?
Too expensive? Ok then, how about £100 for an ex-military browning 9mm pistol.
And if that's still too much then you could always go for a Makharov pistol for £50. That's peanuts.


h2o - You've got a valid point and you're good to mention it, especially as most of the comments in this thread would argue against it. I'm struggling to agree with it though, as I genuinely think that the banning of swords is a knee-jerk reaction (for want of a better phrase) and will cause problems. This doesn't make me childish, it simply means my opinion is different to yours.

Having said that, the point that h2o has made about swords being useless is a good one and could do with analysing.

Many comments and reactions to this type of thread are along the lines of ''someone got killed with a brick once, so why don't they ban bricks'' etc. Comments like that are unhelpful and don't really get the proper meaning of the arguement across.
You can't ban bricks because they hold up my roof, and I don't like sleeping with half a ton of slate resting on my face. Chisels can't be banned because they are used by carpenters to make things. Axes, machetes, bottles, knives, saws, ashtrays, bit's of wood - they're all items that have a proper purpose but are unfortunately used every now and then to injur or kill someone.
Swords are a bit different though.
The arguement with swords is - for want of yet another better phrase - a double-edged sword.

You could argue that the sword is designed for killing, no other purpose, and therefore has no rightful place in modern 'civilised' society. Whether someone views them as 'art' or 'collectors items' is irrelevant.

My arguement is that the swords currently on sale are not designed for killing.
It has been over a hundred years since swords were produced specifically with the intention of killing people. These swords are made and sold as collectors items and decorative pieces.



Personally I'm going to buy one before the ban comes into effect, purely on principal.

Now that, my friends, is childish

 

[sharp88]

£2000 odd quid for an Uzi up in London so Iv heard. But I wouldn't know for sure, I dont dabble in that kinda thing, you never know who your dealing with, if the gun is marked and if your gonna get skagged off for it. I only like reading about those kinda weapons in books - .22s, airguns and 12 gauges are more my thing.

Couple of years ago a friend at school told me her boyfriend could get a handgun for £60. I never beleived it. As for the type of person he was: he crashed his car with me in it and ended up in a court case for stealing money from my friend's parents and harrassed and threatened her for about a year.

 

[Minotaur]

and for Hari Kiri you use the tanto Dagger a full size sword is far to long :rolleyes:
Duncan[/QUOTE]

I was going to argue that you were wrong there but you are not, Seppuku is performed with a tanto.

[quote="Bernie Garland, post: 354859"]i might be splitting hairs, but the law states any knife that the blade can be locked, is an offensive weapon,and lets be real when was the last death by sword ?[/QUOTE]

On the news reports they have interviewed a mother, whos son was killed by a wakizashi(they talk about a 12" samarai sword so it must be a wakizashi).

I am sort of confused by the ban and its wording. Until the first person with a reason to have one is taken to court, I am not sure of the law. To my understanding a genuine samarai sword is made in Japan, and costs a hell of a lot more than £300 quid. Try £25,000 for a wakizashi, and you are getting there.

I think the reason behind the ban is simple, a samarai sword is as close as we have ever got to the perfect cutting weapon, so even a cheap and nasty copy is going to kill someone very easily.

I also think, that it is the gun ban revisted, lots of noise, effects the legal people, and no effect what so ever on the illegal world.

 

[Mirius]

On the news reports they have interviewed a mother, whos son was killed by a wakizashi(they talk about a 12" samarai sword so it must be a wakizashi).

This is exactly the sort of political grandstanding that Vernon Cloaker has done before on similar things, where he can appear to react to something that has been used to create a public outcry.

I am sort of confused by the ban and its wording. Until the first person with a reason to have one is taken to court, I am not sure of the law. To my understanding a genuine samarai sword is made in Japan, and costs a hell of a lot more than £300 quid. Try £25,000 for a wakizashi, and you are getting there.

I agree that this is something that we should be very concerned about. From my experience of Vernon, the process will go something like this:

1) Find something that creates a good public knee jerk reaction
2) Make a proposal on the lines of, "lets ban these dangerous swords, who agrees with me?" This runs on the back of media stories like the one above. Note that the proposal is not a balanced one asking about how dangerous swords really are and if anything effective could be done.
3) A revised proposal is made, taking into account views that support the proposal, and ignoring those that don't. So our martial artists will get an exemption and everyone appears happy.
4) The final proposal is made, and strangely enough, those exemptions are missing from it, so the marital artists don't get an exemption, but it's too late now because the media aren't interested any more in old news. This should sound familiar to the pistol clubs.

As an aside, you'll note that the martial artists should already be concerned, because they aren't using 'genuine' swords but copies.

I think the reason behind the ban is simple, a samarai sword is as close as we have ever got to the perfect cutting weapon, so even a cheap and nasty copy is going to kill someone very easily.

Whilst I don't think anyone would quibble over the quality of samurai swords, I'm not sure everyone would agree that they are the perfect sword. However, the point is that they arent banning samurai swords, but the cheap copies that are not the perfect cutting weapon, since they are just sharpened bits of curved metal and certainly no more effective than the other swords out there, which will still be perfectly legal.

 

[Dougster]

Unfortunately untrue.

Actually, the first part of your post is true - it's unbelievably easy to get hold of a gun in the UK. The comment about the cost is the part I would question.
£350 for a .357 Desert Eagle anyone?
Too expensive? Ok then, how about £100 for an ex-military browning 9mm pistol.
And if that's still too much then you could always go for a Makharov pistol for £50. That's peanuts.


h2o - You've got a valid point and you're good to mention it, especially as most of the comments in this thread would argue against it. I'm struggling to agree with it though, as I genuinely think that the banning of swords is a knee-jerk reaction (for want of a better phrase) and will cause problems. This doesn't make me childish, it simply means my opinion is different to yours.

Having said that, the point that h2o has made about swords being useless is a good one and could do with analysing.

Many comments and reactions to this type of thread are along the lines of ''someone got killed with a brick once, so why don't they ban bricks'' etc. Comments like that are unhelpful and don't really get the proper meaning of the arguement across.
You can't ban bricks because they hold up my roof, and I don't like sleeping with half a ton of slate resting on my face. Chisels can't be banned because they are used by carpenters to make things. Axes, machetes, bottles, knives, saws, ashtrays, bit's of wood - they're all items that have a proper purpose but are unfortunately used every now and then to injur or kill someone.
Swords are a bit different though.
The arguement with swords is - for want of yet another better phrase - a double-edged sword.

You could argue that the sword is designed for killing, no other purpose, and therefore has no rightful place in modern 'civilised' society. Whether someone views them as 'art' or 'collectors items' is irrelevant.

My arguement is that the swords currently on sale are not designed for killing.
It has been over a hundred years since swords were produced specifically with the intention of killing people. These swords are made and sold as collectors items and decorative pieces.



Personally I'm going to buy one before the ban comes into effect, purely on principal.

Now that, my friends, is childish

That's one of the best posts I've read in ages - and one I find it impossible to argue with.

You are totally right with your argument, but it's still the demonising of the object rather than the behaviour that I have issues with.

That said I still can't work out why most people would want to buy a sword.

 

[Mirius]

That said I still can't work out why most people would want to buy a sword.

Whilst agreeing with you to the fullest, I'd guess that most people couldn't work out why you'd want to spend time out in the cold and damp next to a smoky camp fire when you could be at home. I don't think it really matters if we understand why people want to do things, so long as we understand that they have the right to do so.

 

[Bernie Garland]

Whilst agreeing with you to the fullest, I'd guess that most people couldn't work out why you'd want to spend time out in the cold and damp next to a smoky camp fire when you could be at home. I don't think it really matters if we understand why people want to do things, so long as we understand that they have the right to do so.

well said and couldn't agree more

bernie