Offensive Weapons Act 2019: surrender and compensation scheme. December 2020 - March 2021

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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Florida
@TeeDee None are wntirely free from “the code of law.” I’ll center the answer on the main topic: self defense and/or defense of family. That’s one of the inherent rights. It’s a basic human right and indeed, one of the very reasons government and law exist at all. To try to restrict that right is abhorrently evenly inns of itself. That said, the code of law, and a tenet of civilization, is to prevent it being used as an excuse for murder. It’s perfectly reasonable to prescribe and enforce codes specifying that “deadly force” isn’t necessary appropriate response to verbal insults (basically qualifying what is and is not legitimate self defense) Until the last decade and a half deadly force here was only seen justifiable when left with no other alternative (if you could avoid being harmed by simply retreating, you were expected to do so) Castle Doctrine was the exception: once you retreated to your home (or if the incident began there) you had no duty to flee your own home. This doctrine also appield to your vehicle or motel room in most states. More recently more and more states have passed the “stand your ground” laws removing the duty to retreat.

Back to the point of you question as to what rights are inherent: as stated above, the right to self defense, the right to use your own property as you see fit as long as it doesn’t cause harm to others (the legal term is the right to “quiet enjoyment”)

The right of free speech. Again, even this has some legitimate restrictions: for example shouting “FIRE!” in a crowded public area for no reason wouldn’t be true “speech” in that context. Nor would lying under oath at a public function.

tonbe honest the list is far too long to be complete. That’s why there was serious debate about the original Bill of Rights. On the one the one hand the framers thought that listing them was uneccessary and also because future generationsmight think them THE existive list.
on the other hand they realized that some rights were so important they needed to be innumerated.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,849
1,061
64
Florida
Well, I hope most people in the US, like the UK, will realise a zombie knife is not anything to do with bushcraft. I'd rather hear from someone in the US talking about how they use their knives as tools rather than see someone showing off their huge knife in the UK that'll never get used.
I use my Bowie’s, and my hunting knives very, very frequently indeed. I have a 9 inch fillet knife that gets used most times I fish, particularly when filleting large fish (over 20 pounds) The bowies and hunting knives get used cleaning deer, squirrels, rabbits, quail, ducks, etc. as well as doing almost all camp, chores and cooking chores. Could I do them with a smaller knife yes and I have. That said the smaller ones rarely last more,than one hunting season with that type use. I use my machetes when clearing trails and brush.

I hope most people in the UK like the US realize that “bushcraft” is hardly the be all and end all of knife use.
 

TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
6,859
1,133
47
Exeter
@TeeDee None are wntirely free from “the code of law.” I’ll center the answer on the main topic: self defense and/or defense of family. That’s one of the inherent rights. It’s a basic human right and indeed, one of the very reasons government and law exist at all. To try to restrict that right is abhorrently evenly inns of itself. That said, the code of law, and a tenet of civilization, is to prevent it being used as an excuse for murder. It’s perfectly reasonable to prescribe and enforce codes specifying that “deadly force” isn’t necessary appropriate response to verbal insults (basically qualifying what is and is not legitimate self defense) Until the last decade and a half deadly force here was only seen justifiable when left with no other alternative (if you could avoid being harmed by simply retreating, you were expected to do so) Castle Doctrine was the exception: once you retreated to your home (or if the incident began there) you had no duty to flee your own home. This doctrine also appield to your vehicle or motel room in most states. More recently more and more states have passed the “stand your ground” laws removing the duty to retreat.

Back to the point of you question as to what rights are inherent: as stated above, the right to self defense, the right to use your own property as you see fit as long as it doesn’t cause harm to others (the legal term is the right to “quiet enjoyment”)

The right of free speech. Again, even this has some legitimate restrictions: for example shouting “FIRE!” in a crowded public area for no reason wouldn’t be true “speech” in that context. Nor would lying under oath at a public function.

tonbe honest the list is far too long to be complete. That’s why there was serious debate about the original Bill of Rights. On the one the one hand the framers thought that listing them was uneccessary and also because future generationsmight think them THE existive list.
on the other hand they realized that some rights were so important they needed to be innumerated.


Again , I do find this stuff interesting.

But again - I DO think you are writing this from a US Centric perspective.

Regardless of the fact if I agree with it or not ( ref Free speech ) here in the UK we currently have laws determining what is covered and open to Free Speech and then the legal implications and policy enforcement of what some decide to infer is Hate speech.

It doesn't matter as to if I agree with it or not - I can quietly protest , write petitions , march, even respectfully protest angrily but at the end of the day - we have law enforcement based upon Hate speech.

This is the situation in the UK. Where this forum is based..

Regarding Self Defence in the home ( correctly spelt for HERE :) ) and castle law I have no idea anymore , again - doesn't mean I agree with it but currently its the laws I have to follow in this country.

Self defence in the streets - I'm pretty sure we are not allowed to carry anything in the UK with the IMPLICIT purpose of self defence ( self defense to you.. ) - again , maybe not how it should be but its the laws that govern this land that we follow.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,849
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Florida
@TeeDee Yeah, I understand that your laws are different. At least up to a point (they’re surprisingly alike in many ways too) It’s not the laws themselves that I find so odd (we have our own sets of laws that are just wrong and people tryimg to pass even more) What I find strangest is how complacently you accept them (the UK I remember very much valued the same freedoms we’re discussing) Yes I understand the limitations of peaceful protest but there are other options short of violence: simple civil disobedience comes to mind and the French Yellowjacket protests (albeit those were for a different subject)

Besides, when I said rights are intrinsic that in and f itself transcends any nation. The very term “human rights” implies that (that’s why I used it rather than “civil rights” which can vary by nation) And yes, my views are formed by my American experience. That’s also irrelevant.
 
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TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
6,859
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Exeter
@TeeDee Yeah, I understand that your laws are different. At least up to a point (they’re surprisingly alike in many ways too) It’s not the laws themselves that I find so odd (we have our own sets of laws that are just wrong and people tryimg to pass even more) What I find strangest is how complacently you accept them (the UK I remember very much valued the same freedoms we’re discussing) Yes I understand the limitations of peaceful protest but there are other options short of violence: simple civil disobedience comes to mind and the French Yellowjacket protests (albeit those were for a different subject)

Besides, when I said rights are intrinsic that in and f itself transcends any nation. The very term “human rights” implies that (that’s why I used it rather than “civil rights” which can vary by nation) And yes, my views are formed by my American experience. That’s also irrelevant.

We are sort of arguing the same point. Yes Human rights vs Civil rights , but the situation regarding OUR laws surrounding the Offensive weapons act 2019 IS what is being discussed within this thread as the thread title suggests.

 

C_Claycomb

Mod
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
6,363
1,338
Bedfordshire
On the contrary Santaman, you US experience is very relevant and is the core reason that you do not see things in the same light as many others here. Your idea of rights is shaped by US history, culture and philosophy, which is not a universal across the world.

The harder you push your view, the less people will listen to you.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,849
1,061
64
Florida
On the contrary Santaman, you US experience is very relevant and is the core reason that you do not see things in the same light as many others here. Your idea of rights is shaped by US history, culture and philosophy, which is not a universal across the world.

The harder you push your view, the less people will listen to you.
Whether or not people listen is equally irrelevant. Cultures are irrelevant (American cultures, European cultures, Asian cultures, African cultures,nor any other) History itself is irrelevant. At least to the concept of what is a natural, intrinsic right. Evolution determined that eons ago.

our cultures, societies, laws, and history can try as they might to change it, but nature will outlast the human race.
 

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