Summary Of Responses On Adding Further Weapons To The Offensive Weapons Order

[h2o]

swords are for killing.ban em how can a police officer be expected to deal with a guy carrying a sword.yes some people will still have swords but why keep importing and selling them .no one has a legitaimate reason for keeping a sword .as for the i keep mine on my wall it,s ornamental brigade what happens if one night you hear burglars downstairs you go down and he stabs you with your own ornametal sword!!! try telling people who have lost family members due to idiots with swords that we should keep them cos i like looking at them.Lets ban em theyre are just weapons designed to kill. People who use swords are criminaly insane maniacs why let these people own swords.The reason the police want a ban on swords is because everytime they bust a dealers house he has a sword there and they have to leave it there knowing full well the scroat will probably use or threaten to use that sword in the future.No one needs a sword if anyone on here genuinly needs a sword ,because they keep getting attacked by ninjas then fair play to em keep the sword otherwise grow up

 

[British Red]

I wonder how many people on here genuinely NEED an axe? I guess I have more need than many since I use mine to split firewood to heat my home. But, If it came to it I could use a hydraulic splitter. Lets face it only foresters NEED axes - and to be honest they could get away with saws a loppers. So by your logic h2o, would it would be okay for axes (and bushcraft knives) to be banned? I can't imagine it would be much fun for a police officer to be faced with an axe - indeed a GB scandinavian would probably inflict more damage than a sword.

As for "people who use swords are criminally insane maniacs" - do you mean that? People who practice kendo? Re-enactors? The Household Cavalry? etc.

I suggest out hobby has no more logical reason to permit dangerous bladed instruments to be int he hands of the public than their hobbies do. If some fool was to take an axe to someone in the street, would you advocate the banning of axes? The banning of handguns had no positive effect on gun crime (actually gun crime rose massively). Strange thing about criminals. They don't obey the law. So the only people who are hurt by bans are law abiding people.

I despair

Red

 

[h2o]

I wonder how many people on here genuinely NEED an axe? I guess I have more need than many since I use mine to split firewood to heat my home. But, If it came to it I could use a hydraulic splitter. Lets face it only foresters NEED axes - and to be honest they could get away with saws a loppers. So by your logic h2o, would it would be okay for axes (and bushcraft knives) to be banned? I can't imagine it would be much fun for a police officer to be faced with an axe - indeed a GB scandinavian would probably inflict more damage than a sword.

As for "people who use swords are criminally insane maniacs" - do you mean that? People who practice kendo? Re-enactors? The Household Cavalry? etc.

I suggest out hobby has no more logical reason to permit dangerous bladed instruments to be int he hands of the public than their hobbies do. If some fool was to take an axe to someone in the street, would you advocate the banning of axes? The banning of handguns had no positive effect on gun crime (actually gun crime rose massively). Strange thing about criminals. They don't obey the law. So the only people who are hurt by bans are law abiding people.

I despair

Red

no knives are used for cutting axes for chopping what are swords used for?killing

 

[h2o]

the household cavalry carry swords red yes you are correct.They also carry guns !!!as for kendo i dont know much about it we were brought up to believe that cowards use weapons.comparing someone going into the woods carrying an axe to help with fire wood to a smackdealer storing a sword next to his frontdoor is crazy talk.Laws cannot be made for some and not others if the man on the street has to get rid of his swords so that when smack dealers are found with swords they get 5yrs that is fine by me.

 

[British Red]

Swords are also used for ceremonial purposes, sporting purposes etc.

Why do you NEED to chop anything with an axe?

Do you think a criminal could not kill someone with one?

When they have taken away swords, the criminals will use something else - like an axe. Since you don't need your axe - its just a hobby, its fair that your axe is confiscated in the same way that a kendo practitioners sword is confiscated. Both are sharp and dangerous in the wrong hands. Neither are needed, so, by your own logic, it would be fair to take it away.

OR you could accept that violent criminals will always find something to kill with and stop trying to ban the tool and start acting against the criminal.

Entirely your choice, but trust me, the majority of people see no reason for normal people to own machetes or "hunting knives" both were specifically mentioned in the same white paper with a view to adding them to the offensive weapons register, so this is not my opinion its the stated intent of the same legislator.

If you, as a "Bushcrafter" are happy to see a parang or golok banned (which they almost certainly will be under the sword legislation anyway being a curved blade), well, I feel sorry for the youngsters who will never get the chance to use such tools

Red

 

[British Red]

Man killed in axe attack

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4347919.stm

See took me about a minute - I bet I can find many more. Horrible, dangerous things. They should be be banned. Why does anyone need an axe these days? Houses have central heating!

Red

 

[h2o]

Man killed in axe attack

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4347919.stm

See took me about a minute - I bet I can find many more. Horrible, dangerous things. They should be be banned. Why does anyone need an axe these days? Houses have central heating!

Red

I HAVE A STOVAX .to the uninitiated thats a stove in the house you put wood on it which needs splitting with an axe.what use other than violence does a sword serve?

 

[h2o]

the arguement for keeping swords is childish.

 

[BOD]

For five years I lived in a country where almost every household had at least one golok/machete/parang and cutlass type short swords. Many people used these tools on a daily basis and many more were skilled in their use

There were few murders. I fact I could not recall any involving swords/parangs and did an internet search and found only one instance where a parang(golok) was used and it was not in a murder.

It was in a road rage attack and the assailant had a parang and a baton in his hands and the victim was beaten with the baton only. The assailant threaten to kill him but did not. It was in 1999.

There have been murders since then of course but those that featured on the internet involved crimes of passion and the victims were beaten to death. Two other murder weapons were a pillow and plastic sheeting.

I think these items should be banned instead.

It is interesting that edged items perceived as tools were not used as weapons even among people who have a bloody history of head hunting, piracy and colonial war.

I will be there in a few hours and will make more enquiries about statistics as I appreciate that an interent search is not conclusive. Though I do know the murder /homicide rates are very low.

 

[Dougster]

the arguement for keeping swords is childish.

This thread has produced some of the most eloquent arguments and some of the worst written drivvel I have experienced (and I mark teenagers homework).

It doesn't matter how many smack dealers have swords, they have smack, therefore they have no regard for others.

Just because you don't agree is not enough. I don't agree, I always have to suppress a giggle when I go to the home of a grown man with swords above the fireplace. But I will stand before him and defend him from those who say he has no need for them.
Martyn has a beautifully written post that hits the nail on the head.

I have a workshop with saws, chisels, hammers and screwdrivers available to some very unpleasant teenagers. I have to count them six times a day. I'm sure they could do a huge amount of damage with a chisel but I am encouraged to give them to some vicious kids.

Tools are inanimate, they cannot be inherrantly bad. I cannot abide 'I didn't mean it' as a defence any more.

The one thing that seems to have been secretly banned in this country is consequence. We had a bottle full of potassium stolen from a science lab at school on Friday, think what could have happened if that had fallen amongst a group of small children! The irony was that as a result of public perception of our establishment, it was all hushed up.....

 

[h2o]

This thread has produced some of the most eloquent arguments and some of the worst written drivvel I have experienced (and I mark teenagers homework).

It doesn't matter how many smack dealers have swords, they have smack, therefore they have no regard for others.

Just because you don't agree is not enough. I don't agree, I always have to suppress a giggle when I go to the home of a grown man with swords above the fireplace. But I will stand before him and defend him from those who say he has no need for them.
Martyn has a beautifully written post that hits the nail on the head.

I have a workshop with saws, chisels, hammers and screwdrivers available to some very unpleasant teenagers. I have to count them six times a day. I'm sure they could do a huge amount of damage with a chisel but I am encouraged to give them to some vicious kids.

Tools are inanimate, they cannot be inherrantly bad. I cannot abide 'I didn't mean it' as a defence any more.

The one thing that seems to have been secretly banned in this country is consequence. We had a bottle full of potassium stolen from a science lab at school on Friday, think what could have happened if that had fallen amongst a group of small children! The irony was that as a result of public perception of our establishment, it was all hushed up.....

now youre just being disrespectful with the i mark teenagers homework remark!!!big deal just because you teach people as a living doesnt mean you can teach other adults dont be so condascending.you have said you laugh when you see a man with swords on his wall yet you defend him.This is a bushcraft forum and there is no use for swords in bushcraft and the last thing i want is bushcrafters getting tared with the same brush as rambo wannabee,s.i dont mind debate but the teenager remark was uncalled for.Maybe if british teachers were of better quality my work would be better written.It seems to me that anyone who thinks differnetly to the others on this forum is beat down. Let everyone have a view lets debate but calling people teenagers IS OUT OF ORDER .I also agree martyn has a beutifully written post just because someone has a better education than another doesnt mean that the one with less education is always wrong,that sounds like middleclass snobbery to me

 

[Dougster]

I believe that some posts here (and I point no fingers) are short sighted and blend opinion with fact. Teenagers blend opinion with fact. Just because it's not bushcraft does not make it wrong. Children are egotistical, positions held whereby 'swords are of no use to me therefore are wrong' appears egotistical, make the connection.

I never for one second called anyoneone a teenager, but concede the intonation was made unintentioanlly. Anyone who then feels they have been called a teenager makes a leap I didn't actually intend. If I could do it again I would leave that phrase out, I won't edit as that would be trying to cover my tracks.

I am amazed at someones need for swords on his wall and try as I might I cannot see the point, but I will not take away his peaceful right to do so as it doesn't affect others adversely.

As for the remark on the poor quality of British Teachers, well, I'll leave that one open. I've been called worse than a bad teacher. It's always the same when people blame those who tried to help them.

You drew an intonation and you directed insults in return. I was not alluding purely to your posts, which I happen to think are wrong. I have already said I don't see the need for swords, but my view is frequently not right. One point we have agreed on here is that the act is wrong, not the object, and we should not demonise the tool to allow yet more people to blame it, society or those who attempted to educate them for their own shortcomings.

On a separate, and this time personal note, breaking huge swathes of text makes it easier for others to get your point, I've just read yours 4 times to understand it h2o.

I struggle with written English, so I go back through what I write with the perspective of others to ensure I am clear. I have tried to be clearer this time but I am prepared to disgree with you on this one. I think it important to make the distinction between fact and opinion.

I made an earlier post in haste, but I am happy to retract a comment I later think was wrong. As for Swords having a purpose other than to kill - what purpose does art have as Red put it? Some things are just nice to look at - in the eye of the beholder.

I disagree that all the arguments opposing yours are childish.

 

[h2o]

i never said you was a bad teacher dougster ,just i went to one of the worst schools in england.This is fact as its getting demolished having been in special measures for years.I agree my english isnt great hence me having an f at gcse in the subject,and i was in the top set.

ahhh i see what u mean use the big fat key on the right hand side of the keyboard.Will do in future

 

[h2o]

. As for Swords having a purpose other than to kill - what purpose does art have as Red put it? Some things are just nice to look at - in the eye of the beholder.

has anyone ever been killed with a painting?

 

[British Red]

h2o

You are the one who is disrespectful in this argument - indeed YOU are the one who accused others and their arguments of being "childish". You need to understand that people can disagree with what you say without being in any way rude to you. It is not okay for you to be rude to other people and then invent ways in which you think they have done the same to you. You are the person hurling insults in this discussion

Banning "swords" means that all the fencing clubs in Britain are banned, another Olympic sport is removed and the world is a poorer place. If you also removed everything else that was "designed only to kill", you may as well ban archery, javelin, discus, shot put and many other sports.

However as happy as I am to discuss the point rationally, I find your insulting of this community and its members unpleasant so I am afraid you will need to find someone else to talk to.

Red

 

[John Fenna]

I have to agree with Red on this one - no need for anyone to be rude, just discuss things like rational beings everyone.
Personally I find repro swords of any sort a bit of a bad joke whilst finding real swords interesting (until I got poor and had to sell them I had a collection of Court Swords).
Why do we need legislation - a homocidal thug on the streets with a sword is already breaking the 3" blade law!?
Enforce the laws we have and we will not need more laws!

 

[Bernie Garland]

i to agree with red and john, the criminals have enough available without swords, and at the end of the day the criminal, would have to be a bit thick to walk about with one,as i think old bill would soon get a phone call.

bernie

 

[Cairodel]

Personally, I thought Dougster's post perfectly reasonable, just as the following ones by
BR, Bernie and John Fenna's..
BTW, John, there are two "i"s, not two "o"s in homicidal, as I'm sure Dougster will agree
...LOL....!?!

 

[John Fenna]

Dammit man - I can spell!


Just not type or proofread........or be bothered finding the spell check....
Not ignorant, just lazy is my excuse and I am sticking to it!

 

[Mirius]

.or be bothered finding the spell check

Which is one reason I use Firefox with a spell check add in since it highlights them as I type (though I do find it amusing that it doesn't recognise Firefox as a word). Mind you I still don't notice them all, but it is something for those who have spelling issues to consider.

My spelling skills, as with all my other skills are down to me, not the people who may or may not have taught me well.