Some cultural differences...

[Goatboy]

Hi Toddy,
May want to read these: -

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/02february/pages/shingles-vaccinations-old-people.aspx

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chickenpox/pages/prevention.aspx there's a link from there about chickenpox vaccinations but I can't get it open at the moment.

 

[abominable_scouse_monster]

I didn't know you could get one Thank you
I'm going to find out about it. I'm not 60, but I finally got chickenpox when I was 29, and it was beyond miserable The only thing worse was real 'flu which floored me for months. I've been dreading the shingles tbh.

We live and learn


Mary

I had mine when I was 6 over the summer holiday, the whole summer I was stuck inside what a fecking bummer that year was. Then aigin that was the same summer I learned what the internet was and how to use BASIC... great times but I also evolved the geek part of myself that has lead to many days of isolation but many days of DnD too... I am so conflicted about my childhood.

 

[RonW]

Ordinary childhood diseases? Like the flu pandemic that killed 50 million in 1917. Measles has always been known to leave a certain percentage blind. Mumps can leave them sterile. And as Toddy said, chicken pox comes back as shingles later in life.

Get real Santaman.
I have no idea what childillness is called what in English, but a few. Most of them I had as a kid, like rubella, measles, mumps, varicella. the latter are the chickenpox, right? Allthough highly unpleasant, not lifethreatening. I still have my three kids, too. Come back as shingles? It might! But only under certain specific circumstances, like a very low immunesystem, due to another illness or fysical fatigue. Again, annoying, but not lifethreatening. I know... The flu epidemic that raged in 1917 is no ordinary child disease. Mumps can leave them sterile if they get that at a later age, like puberty. Measles leave a certain percentage blind? What percentage?? In third world countries, it might, yes, yet that is quit easily countered by vitamin A admission. And about 1 per 1000 might get complicaties like meningitis. Is that a reason to pump the little ones full of cocktails of which no one of us has an idea what they contain??
Are you one of those who obediantly believe government vaccinationprogrammes are to be good?
What about the side effects many of these vaccinations have? 9 out of 10 times these are worse than the actual disease!

Read and ask around a bit, befor you start panicing....

 

[Toddy]

Oh believe me I read. I read every thing I could get my hands on, and my brother, my Aunt and my Uncle were all doctors.

Every child of my generation has at least one scar on their upper arm. It was a smallpox vaccination. We all got the drop on the sugar lump that was the anti polio shot....I know adults now in their sixties who still hirple along on calipers because of the polio, if they survived the iron lung. One wee drop of vaccine and there are no more crippled children.
How about rubella that damages unborn babies so severely there's a deaf/blind charity raising money and care for their lifelong care ?
Scarlet fever, diptheria....killed my g,grandmother and her six week old daughter, killed five of HWMBLT's grannies youngest babies in a week.....one wee jag and it's no more.
Chickenpox is no simple thing, it hides itself away within us, it can come back, it can come back as shingles. Shingles is a disease of the nerves and is excruciating....and if it hits the eyes or ears it can blind or deafen. Nearly 20% of those who have had chickenpox develop shingles at some point in their lives. It is implicated in the development of auto immune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis.
One wee vaccine, give me the jag.

The list goes on and on and on. Either be part of the cure, or be part of the problem stewing in the background.

Toddy

 

[boatman]

If you don't get your children vaccinated against measles you are an idiot and even more so if you have a girl child and do not get her immunised against german measles. Good luck with them ingesting vitamin A.

 

[Paul_B]

As soon as I turn 60 I intend to get the shingles vaccination too.

Well I'm 20 years off that. A guy at work came in with chicken pox. I was furious as my lad was 7 days old and I was terrified of bringing it home to him. He got sent home thanks to enough of us kicking off. Another lad with a baby just upped sticks and went home until he had gone.

Another guy had 2 lots of shingles in the last year. 2 others had it too, one guy was off for 8+ weeks! If insufficient kids get the jabs then it won't give herd immunity and I believe even vaccinated can then still get I'll. Cld be wrong but you're relying on others getting vaccinated as much as your kid getting vaccinated. I don't like that helplessness and dependency on others.

 

[British Red]

What Toddy said. And out of curiosity, what are the vacinations required of school kids? I know here an MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) is one of the required shots. It wasn't when I was a kid though. I got Measles, Mumps (twice! Once on each side) and German Measles. The resulting quarentine kept me out of 8 weeks of the second grade.

As far as I know, you are not required to have had any vaccinations to attend school. Why would you be? If the vaccinations are effective, vaccinated children are immune to the diseases. So if a few children's parents choose not to vaccinate them, there surely cannot be a risk to vaccinated children?

 

[santaman2000]

Get real Santaman.
I have no idea what childillness is called what in English, but a few. Most of them I had as a kid, like rubella, measles, mumps, varicella. the latter are the chickenpox, right? Allthough highly unpleasant, not lifethreatening. I still have my three kids, too. Come back as shingles? It might! But only under certain specific circumstances, like a very low immunesystem, due to another illness or fysical fatigue. Again, annoying, but not lifethreatening. I know... The flu epidemic that raged in 1917 is no ordinary child disease. Mumps can leave them sterile if they get that at a later age, like puberty. Measles leave a certain percentage blind? What percentage?? In third world countries, it might, yes, yet that is quit easily countered by vitamin A admission. And about 1 per 1000 might get complicaties like meningitis. Is that a reason to pump the little ones full of cocktails of which no one of us has an idea what they contain??
Are you one of those who obediantly believe government vaccinationprogrammes are to be good?
What about the side effects many of these vaccinations have? 9 out of 10 times these are worse than the actual disease!

Read and ask around a bit, befor you start panicing....

I had some good answers but I read further and Toddy already covered most of them. As for trusting the government reccomendations. Well its actually the state governments that have the true authority with vaccinations. But there almost universal. You don't HAVE TO get your kids the vaccinations; but if you don't, they can't go to school.

 

[santaman2000]

As far as I know, you are not required to have had any vaccinations to attend school. Why would you be? If the vaccinations are effective, vaccinated children are immune to the diseases. So if a few children's parents choose not to vaccinate them, there surely cannot be a risk to vaccinated children?

The risk is that it will spread from one unvacinated child to another. And then back to the preschool kids at home. I can't speak for UK requirements but most states make them mandatory here.

 

[Paul_B]

Toddy - well put. There is a lot of rubbish being put out online about how much of a toxic cocktail vaccines are. Poppycock!

I've read about it containing mercury, aluminum and other stuff that ppl without any understanding "know" are totally dangerous and toxic. Those claims have been disproved or in some scary ingredients lists are actually either additives used in foods, over the counter drugs like paracetamol or are just plain inert.

I've read about how they cause allergies. That too has been proven as false.
Then you have asthma and numerous other things claimed to be caused by vaccines. Jeez! If half the stuff was true we'd be killing off vast swathes of our population. We're not.

The one thing we do have an epidemic of is a generation of over anxious, over protective and under educated parents. I say under educated in terms if science, scientific method and the ability to understand / be critical of scientific matters or rresearch.

 

[Paul_B]

Another thing we have in the UK is the daily mail and similar papers that spread fear but don't correct their reporting or poor journalism that is only bothered about papers sales not accuracy of their paper.

 

[santaman2000]

Toddy - well put. There is a lot of rubbish being put out online about how much of a toxic cocktail vaccines are. Poppycock!

I've read about it containing mercury, aluminum and other stuff that ppl without any understanding "know" are totally dangerous and toxic. Those claims have been disproved or in some scary ingredients lists are actually either additives used in foods, over the counter drugs like paracetamol or are just plain inert.

I've read about how they cause allergies. That too has been proven as false......

Actually some of them CAN cause allergic reactions. Before they'd give me the flu vaccine I had to sign a statement that I wasn't allergic to eggs or MSG. The vaccine is cultured in eggs but I still have no idea what the question about the MSG was about.

 

[British Red]

The risk is that it will spread from one unvacinated child to another. And then back to the preschool kids at home. I can't speak for UK requirements but most states make them mandatory here.

I'm glad that parents have more freedom of choice here.

 

[santaman2000]

I'm glad that parents have more freedom of choice here.

Oh they have the freedom to choose not to vaccinate here as well BR. But they'll have to make alternate arrangements for school. In most instances home schooling would be the only option as private schools generally come under the same regulations.

Of course if a Dr, determines that a child has a valid medical contr-indication to a given vaccine (such as an allergy to it or one of it's ingredients) there are exceptions.

 

[British Red]

Sounds draconian to me - the only people at risk are those who choose to take the risk. I don't see that as any of the governments business.

 

[Swallow]

As far as I know, you are not required to have had any vaccinations to attend school. Why would you be? If the vaccinations are effective, vaccinated children are immune to the diseases. So if a few children's parents choose not to vaccinate them, there surely cannot be a risk to vaccinated children?

The risk is that it will spread from one unvacinated child to another. And then back to the preschool kids at home. I can't speak for UK requirements but most states make them mandatory here.

Am I mistaken or has Santaman dodged the question here?

 

[santaman2000]

Sounds draconian to me - the only people at risk are those who choose to take the risk. I don't see that as any of the governments business.

Not sure i disagree with you here. Just explaining the policy and reasoning. Not trying to defend it.

 

[santaman2000]

Am I mistaken or has Santaman dodged the question here?

If so, not intentionally. If you'd care to elaborate further on the question maybe I can answer further. maybe not, but it's worth a try.

 

[Toddy]

No, it's false science that BR.

They choose to not only take the risk but choose to risk that the disease gets re-established and morphs. Malaria and TB are classic examples.

Toddy

 

[santaman2000]

No, it's false science that BR.

They choose to not only take the risk but choose to risk that the disease gets re-established and morphs. Malaria and TB are classic examples.

Toddy

There's logic in your argument but I'd not heard that it had happened with Malaria and TB. Interesting.