Reasons for carrying a knife (in the UK).......

[Grimnir]

I would like to thank everyone for this thread, it has taught me more about knife law than I thought possible - and that's not me being flippant! I belong to a heathen group working to gain legal recognition for our religion and the subject of knife carrying has come up more than once. Historically, the surviving lore on heathenry does say that you should always go armed and that is a part of our religion, but how do we take that in regards to modern society and the laws as they exist?

I had originally pushed for the right to carry a fixed-blade knife up to 3". After reading this thread I have changed my mind. A sub-3" folder would do just as well, as would a replica blunt (for religious purposes). I do have one question of you though - does anyone know what the law is regarding carrying a blunt blade? That is, one that is ceremonial, not one that can be used as a knife? Are there any restrictions on this? Because if not I'm going to make one from the bar of mild steel I have in the back room and forget carrying a live blade at all unless I actually have a need for such a blade

 

[bambodoggy]

I suspect the easiest way for you to get round this is the way many Sikh's do. They are required to carry knives (Kirpan)as part of their religion in much the same way that some christians wear crosses and although some do this others, and in fact most I believe, have chosen to wear small charm daggers on a charm type bracket or neckless.

As regards blunt edges I do not know exactly where you would stand in terms of the points and blades act (I suspect still foul of it though) but either way an offencive weapon charge could be pressed against you as with any other item if deemed to have been used in an offencive manor.

Hope that helps mate,

Bam.

 

[RGRBOX]

Here is Switzerland, the law isn't very clear.. I sell knives, and have this same question asked of me and my guys daily. I tell them first, that they can do what they want so as long as they do it out side of my shop.. but even the police don't always know here.. the law about this canges all of the time. most of the knife related crime here is with kitchen knives. Anyway, I carry a knife with me daily in my pocket, and have never been asked about it by the police. But because I use it to cut open boxes etc.. at work i would use that for my excuse. Another point and it has been said often in this thread, is I only carry my fixed blade, saw, axe, etc.. in my ruck until I get to the point of where I get out of my car, and start my trip on foot. This way I don't have any problems if I was to run into a Police check point.. happenes all the time over here.. I also cross over the border from time to time into France, and I carry my knives etc.. either under my car seat, or in my back pack.. Most of the people I've spoken to about having there knives taken by the police where either young, 18 to 21 years old, and they carry them on them in the street. Second they are usually stopped by the police for other reasons..

 

[East Scout]

LOL!

The sad thing is that many of us have also been in the army and lost mates as well, but we tend not to shout about it. I have a feeling that Hilltop is actually a 12 year old boy, visiting BCUK as he takes a short break from his hourly internet pron excursions

How he / she / it managed to knock up 110 posts beats me!

Martyn, I'll buy you a beer for banning him (if that's still legal).

I have noticed in my travels that guys that cry and stomp thier feet like that are usually the worst of liars and cook up some story to jusify the failure to fit into normal suroundings...In this case a simple internet forum....

ES

 

[Graham_S]

"the empty can rattles loudest"

 

[bogflogger]

But there is still the possibility that he is Genuine and Suffering from Post Combat Stress, so could we stop the Slagging please.

 

[ArkAngel]

Good grief

I don't look at a topic for a week or so and look what happens!

I think we have to accept the fact that Hilltop does indeed require professional assistance. Even if he doesn't again we should respect the fact that he has his views on this subject and very are obviously very strong (for whatever reason).

Of course i cannot condone the manner in which he expressed his opinons and applaud the mods in their decision.

I used to work with someone with similar views. I hold a firearms license as i'm sure many other people do on here. This work collegue was most vocal that i was "physcopathic", "deranged" and many other opinons too strong to list on this site. He simply couldn't or wouldn't try to see my point of view. His opinion was that NOBODY in a civillized society needed to own a firearm PERIOD.

He wanted ALL knives banning, all firearms of any power or calibre. When questioned what he considered to be a "dangerous" knife he replied that his wife managed with a 2" paring knife in the kitchen and thats all she ever used. Anything more than that was pointless <no pun intended>. When i pointed out that i owned 15 chef knives rangeing from 1" to 14" again he went off on his rant about the size of knife and how i was a "unbalanced" person etc.

Needless to say i didn't have much further communication with him and left the job soon after. Even my new collegues occasionly take the mickey about my rifle (yes i only have 1 not a cuboard full!), it's good natured but this previous experience has made me a bit sensitive about ownership of items such as my rifle and knives.

I try to be balanced in my opinion of these matters but i have to admit it annoys me slightly that debate on this topic gets so heated about something i have been brought up with since i was a small boy. To me guns and knives are a normal part of my life and have been since my grandfather gave me my first cut down airgun at 6 and i earned my pocket money shooting rabbits on his farm.

As far as i can see, if you have a reason to carry a knife, carry a knife. If you can't think of a reason why you need one, leave it at home. That way you protect yourself and keep on the right side of the law.

 

[RGRBOX]

I grew up with knives, and guns in my small town in Louisiana. We almost never had any problems.. that is, there were problems, but on a level that our hunting rifles, and knives couldn't match. In the towns where there were bars, and clubs there were fights, and some ruckus.. but not with us. I grew up with a respect for guns, and knives. I killed my first White Tail Buck while waiting for the school bus one morning.. We used to carry knives to school, because I studuied agriculture, and we used them daily.. I was a trained Butcher. I used to carry my .22 with me to school, and leave it on the school bus.. then after school, the bus driver would let me off along the route, and I would hunt while working my way back home. Anyway, from a lot of what I've seen, that most problems have been in the cities, and towns.. but in the back woods of where I'm from we have gotten along without killing each other.. and I can only thank god for that.. Over here in Europe, and in more then many places in the States, I've seen people crying about gun control, knife control etc... many guns that are used are illegal, and many knives are kitchen knives.. in crime that is.. sometime the local police come by my shop, and show me pics of knives, and weapons used in a homiside to help in identification. In 10 years i've only seen one hunting knofe and it was one of those cheap Spanish ones that cost nothing to buy.. and with weapons, not one time have I seen an assault rifle in the pics.. people are the problem here.. and not the items they use.. we tend to put blame on everything except for what is the true problem... if we start banning everything that can be used to kill someone.. then a capenter will have to get a permit for a hammer.. and a baseball player for a bat...

Sorry for ranting about this.. it's just I never expected to have to discuse this on this forum.. I though that everyone on this forum were into what were doing.. and that's the love of the outdoors, and living bushcraft.

 

[scanker]

[snip]As far as i can see, if you have a reason to carry a knife, carry a knife. If you can't think of a reason why you need one, leave it at home. That way you protect yourself and keep on the right side of the law.

Just to clarify, you mean only carry a knife if you have a good reason so that you comply with the law? You're not talking about carrying a knife for protection.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I just want to make sure that when "protect" and "knife" are used in the same sentence, the meaning is clear.

 

[RGRBOX]

Anyone who carries a knife for protection, and doesn't know how to use one is just stupid.. second, and most important.. carrying a for protection means that if you were to use it, you can expect to spend a long time in prison.. are you ready for that..? I carry a knife.. I don't carry it for protection.. I tell all of my clients the same.. and I have many who want one for protection... I try to guide them into the direction of some pepper spray instead... And the last thing is that if you were to be stupid, and take out your knife to threaten someone.. you can expect that maybe the guy will leave.. unlikely.. or he will either take it from you and use it on you.. or he will be carrying something bigger...

 

[mikehill]

Just to clarify, you mean only carry a knife if you have a good reason so that you comply with the law? You're not talking about carrying a knife for protection.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I just want to make sure that when "protect" and "knife" are used in the same sentence, the meaning is clear.

I read it as protecting yourself from the law, not an assailant
Mike.

 

[Spikey DaPikey]

As a biker, i always carry my Leatherman Crunch on my belt, as i can do most roadside repairs with it (including changing the back wheel !!)

However, in Coventry, the police have started to use an airport style scanner in the city center, to check for carried knives etc. You dont have to walk throught it, but anyone walking away when they spot it, may be stopped and checked anyway !!

So, to this end, i asked my local MP, what the law was regarding the carrying of said multitool.

This is what i got back :

With regard to whether a Leatherman tool constitutes an offensive weapon, this matter has been fully examined and i can now provide the following response.



Offensive Weapon
Any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having with him for such use by him, or by some other person

The Leatherman does not fall into the 'made' section of the offence because it was made as a tool and not specifically to injure people. Nor would it fall into the 'adapted' section unless it had been altered with the intention of causing injury.

An offensive weapon could be an otherwise inoffensive article where someone intends to use it to cause injury to a person (for example, a set of car keys held between the fingers with the intention of injuring someone).

Bladed/ Pointed Article

It is an offence to have with you, without good reason of lawful authority an article which has a blade of is sharply pointed or a folding pocket knife which has a blade the cutting edge which exceeds 3 inches (7.62 centimetres)

Defences to this would be if a person could demonstrate that he or she has a good reason, or lawful authority to have it with them, or if the article is used for work, religious reasons or is part of a national costume.

I hope this response goes some way to reassure your constituent.


so, there ya go

 

[East Scout]

I carry my Swiss Mountaineer on my person attached to a braided lanyard everywhere i go..If Im in my Jeep traveling, you can count on my Survival Web Gear to be in the back w/ my Ka-Bar and my Marine Raider to be on it........The thought of personal protection isnt on my mind ( but applicable) at all but rather utility and having it incase I find myslef having to run for it if the hammer ever droped while Im out and about..Its perfectly legal to carry the large knives w/ my Kit in my Jeep and equaly legal to have the Swiss Mountaneer in my pants pocket......

ES

 

[ArkAngel]

Oh god yes i meant only as a tool not as a device for self protection.

I have not and would not ever carry a knife for self protection. As i believe was mentioned earlier in the thread only a skilled martial artist or possibly certain branches of the military could use them effectively anyway.

I consider myself to be a skilled martial artist (2nd dan black belt in jujitsu) but i wouldn't think i would ever be good enough to defend myself with i knife. It also draws the possibility that if you are disarmed your own weapon could be used against you. I know a few police officers who would never want to be armed for fear that their own weapon could be used against them.

 

[bambodoggy]

Its perfectly legal to carry the large knives w/ my Kit in my Jeep and equaly legal to have the Swiss Mountaneer in my pants pocket......

I think you'll find if you're stopped with that lot in your car (which as we've already discussed is a public place) and you don't have a valid reason then you will be nicked, I know as it's happened to me.
You are breaking the law (as I was unknowingly) and if caught you will go to court.

All the best,

Bam.

(EDIT: I'm guessign that maybe you're from Kent County in the USA as opposed to the county of Kent here in the UK....in which case ignor my entire post lol )

 

[Martyn]

I carry my Swiss Mountaineer on my person attached to a braided lanyard everywhere i go..If Im in my Jeep traveling, you can count on my Survival Web Gear to be in the back w/ my Ka-Bar and my Marine Raider to be on it........The thought of personal protection isnt on my mind ( but applicable) at all but rather utility and having it incase I find myslef having to run for it if the hammer ever droped while Im out and about..Its perfectly legal to carry the large knives w/ my Kit in my Jeep and equaly legal to have the Swiss Mountaneer in my pants pocket......

ES

Legal in the USA, illegal in the UK.

Contributions to this thread from overseas members is obviously very welcome, but in the interests of avoiding confusion, it's prolly a good idea to just make it clear what country you are talking about when stating whether somnething is legal or illegal.

 

[Martyn]

As a biker, i always carry my Leatherman Crunch on my belt, as i can do most roadside repairs with it (including changing the back wheel !!)

However, in Coventry, the police have started to use an airport style scanner in the city center, to check for carried knives etc. You dont have to walk throught it, but anyone walking away when they spot it, may be stopped and checked anyway !!

So, to this end, i asked my local MP, what the law was regarding the carrying of said multitool.

This is what i got back :

With regard to whether a Leatherman tool constitutes an offensive weapon, this matter has been fully examined and i can now provide the following response.



Offensive Weapon
Any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having with him for such use by him, or by some other person

The Leatherman does not fall into the 'made' section of the offence because it was made as a tool and not specifically to injure people. Nor would it fall into the 'adapted' section unless it had been altered with the intention of causing injury.

An offensive weapon could be an otherwise inoffensive article where someone intends to use it to cause injury to a person (for example, a set of car keys held between the fingers with the intention of injuring someone).

Bladed/ Pointed Article

It is an offence to have with you, without good reason of lawful authority an article which has a blade of is sharply pointed or a folding pocket knife which has a blade the cutting edge which exceeds 3 inches (7.62 centimetres)

Defences to this would be if a person could demonstrate that he or she has a good reason, or lawful authority to have it with them, or if the article is used for work, religious reasons or is part of a national costume.

I hope this response goes some way to reassure your constituent.


so, there ya go

Indeed, your MP has said absolutely nothing, other than to mislead you.

Leatherman Crunch has a blade under 3" right? It's not an offensive weapon per-se right? So it's legal right? Wrong!!!

It's a locking knife and falls foul of the Harris ruling.

The absence of any mention of the Harris ruling in your MP's letter is rather misleading. Dangerously so from your point of view.

I would reply to that letter with ...

"You make no mention of the Harris ruling and the tone of your letter implies it's legal to carry the leatherman crunch in public. Can you clarify, how does the Harris v DPP ruling affect section 139 of the 1988 CJA, with regard to the legality of carring the knife in public places?"

At which point, I'm sure he'll go off and ask someone. A good place to start would be with a policeman.

 

[bogflogger]

At least the MP actually bothered to reply, even if it was with only part of the facts and not the whole story!

 

[East Scout]

I wasnt aware there was a Queen Ann's county anywhere in the UK w/ a Kent County north of it. So I figured that be the first clue I wasnt in the UK..Il'l edit my location to be a bit easier for you all..I know its a UK Forum so folks will just assume that a UK topic will be filled w/ Uk members responces..So I take the blame..!

..Very very sorry for the confusion...

ES

 

[Martyn]

..I know its a UK Forum so folks will just assume that a UK topic will be filled w/ Uk members responces..So I take the blame..!

..Very very sorry for the confusion...

ES

Hey man, no confusion and no blame.

But it is a UK based forum and the thread is predominantly about UK knife law, so people will probably assume that responses are Uk specific. It's a hot topic and I'm just keen we dont all get in a muddle with international laws as well.