Racial mix of people at meets

[Martyn]

Yes, it seems it's predominantly a white mans pastime. The question is why?

I dont think there is anything sinister afoot, I think it's more to do with the historical relationships of countryside activities in Northwest Europe. The lifestyles, skills, tools and activities are universal to some extent, but the skills, attitudes and culture that are specific to Western Europe, seem to have strong links with the old Scandinavian, Germanic, Saxon and Celtic peoples. This is reflected a lot in clothes, kit and so on. So I think white people tend to culturally identify with it more than other ethnicities. It's also a countryside activity. While the UK has huge immigrant populations, they are still, for whatever reason, predominantly inner-city communities while rural UK is predominantly white. Certainly British country sports are still predominantly white, probably for the same reason. Whether or not this attracts a sinister element, is another question. Is badger baiting a white, working class pursuit? I think there is also a large numer of ex/serving military attracted to it and while the UK does have a very large immigrant population, only around 1% of the armed forces are identified as from an ethnic minority.

 

[andybysea]

Those Asian guy's who where planning the next attack's after 7/7 went to the Lake district,and camped out and practiced some skills,although not quite what most on here get up to.

 

[Maggot]

Those Asian guy's who where planning the next attack's after 7/7 went to the Lake district,and camped out and practiced some skills,although not quite what most on here get up to.

There were plenty of Irish guys who we used to look for in the 80s who did a lot of camping, mostly in Armagh where there are some really good campsites.

 

[Maggot]

Of course, another reason for the predominance of white, middle class, beardy types is that for centuries we have been desperately trying to get 'nature' to conform to what we want, and on the way have domesticated not only our animals, but also ourselves.

Now we would like to have some less domestication, and experience a more 'basic' lifestyle for ourselves instead of from an ancient history books. Other races and cultures are not so far removed as to feel the need to 'return' to that way of life, as they still live it.

As for why there not more women, that's obvious, they are too bloody sensible to spend the weekend in the cold and wet pretending to have a good time eating partially cooked food with a wooden spoon, peeing and crapping in the woods and stinking of smoke

 

[Tengu]

Most Asian people I know are just too busy to get out.

One guy I know is full time at college, he comes home and works in a pizza shop untill 0200.

When they go on holiday they inevitabley go home to stay with relatives. (Bearing a plasma screen as a consideration for Aunty putting them up.)

 

[Swallow]

Coming from a city and then wondering round the moot the same question crossed my mind more than once and bothered me at times. Back in smoke the simple (but probably wrong and oversimplified) answer that came to me was.

Non-Euopeans have come to the country relatively recently from a Bush setting to an Industrialised setting to get the benefits of an Industrialised setting.

Europeans have been in an Industrialised setting for some time and are going to a Bush setting to get the benefits of a Bush setting.

It could just be that both parties are trying to achieve some sort of balance between the two but are travelling in opposite directions to get that balance.

There could be some conditioning there as well. I remember my blood boiling when I read about a local government official who wanted the Hadza to be "decent" to "wear clothes" and live in houses.

 

[Lynx]

Perhaps they fail to understand why anyone would want to leave their nice cosy centrally heated homes to swing from a hammock in the middle of a dark wet forest whilst foraging for animals to eat! I just don't understand why they don't get it!

 

[maddave]

· Is bushcrafting a predominantly white activity?
· If it is does this matter?
· If it does matter what might be done about it?

Yes
No
Nothing, people enjoy different pastimes for different reasons.

Who knows why different groups do or don't take part in different things ... Perhaps it's partly cultural, perhaps it's just because they like or dislike the particular activity in question. simples

 

[Maggot]

· Is bushcrafting a predominantly white activity?
· If it is does this matter?
· If it does matter what might be done about it?

Yes
No
Nothing, people enjoy different pastimes for different reasons.

Who knows why different groups do or don't take part in different things ... Perhaps it's partly cultural, perhaps it's just because they like or dislike the particular activity in question. simples

Or is it because we, as a community not individually, are not that welcoming, and look a bit scary with our white male predominance, penchant for knives, the woods and fire? I don't think anything is 'simples'.

Think 'Deliverance' ding a ding ding ding ding ding ding ding:theyareon

 

[Martyn]

[video=youtube;0yt9R0I3gSk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yt9R0I3gSk[/video]

 

[Swallow]

I think the question is worth asking but I also think that What might be done about it is a very dangerous question, if for example you start consciously or subconsciously dragging your "ethnic" mates along because we had a conversation about the proportions being "different" then it's become contrived.

I don't know if it is welching it, but I've often found when you ask a question like that and just leave it alone things start to happen naturally.

 

[GordonM]

I think the bushcraft community is a welcoming one. I also feel that most folks I have interacted with on this site are very inclusionary. I see great respect shown here for indigenous people's skills that impart bushcraft to us. I also see respect here for non-white folks, in general. I think it is good to ask the questions about our hobbies. I certainly do not feel the need to send out inner city "bushcrafting outreach teams" under the auspices of some government social program, however. The same media exposure most of us get to bushcrafting is available to the minorities in our countries. I simply feel it is down to a person's choice to participate.

Gordy

 

[santaman2000]

There are huge numbers of immigrants into the UK, from many years ago, who are still unable to converse in English. Indeed, there are large numbers of, particularly Asian women, who are 3rd generation immigrants to the UK, and they can't speak English either. Their culturally heritage is so strong that they have either chosen or been unable to develop a culture of their ...

Yes Asian do seem to stay more cloistered; family in particular is a stronger bond. That said, just because they haven't assimilated into UK culture or learned English doesn't mean their culture hasn't evolved. If as you say they are 3rd generation I'd wager their culture is still different than their grandparents.

Another possibility is that they aren't all actually 3rd generation. Some may be illegal immigrants. If the community is that cloistered it would be difficult for anyone outside the community to know all the individuals.

 

[santaman2000]

Most Asian people I know are just too busy to get out.

One guy I know is full time at college, he comes home and works in a pizza shop untill 0200.

When they go on holiday they inevitabley go home to stay with relatives. (Bearing a plasma screen as a consideration for Aunty putting them up.)

Exactly what I meant about different priorities. Most Asians I know have a stronger work ethic and family loyalty than my non-Asian friends. Little thought is given toward recreation of any type other than socializing with loved ones.

 

[spiritwalker]

interestingly most serial killers are white too maybe its the lure to all the shiny knives and stalking around the woods ?

 

[santaman2000]

It might also be asked if there are really fewer of them into bushcrafting, OR...are they simply not joining the same groups we are? Just because someone isn't on the forum doesn't mean they aren't out fishing. Just because they don't come to meets organized by these groups doesn't mean they aren't out there (although granted you would expect to bump into them occasionally)

Maybe as I think about fishing, some of the answer lies in the different practices. Most Asians and Blacks that I know over here are ardent fisherman (at least here in the South, I cain't speak for the rest of the country with any certainty) That said, what I've gathered on this forum is that there isn't a great deal of fishing areas open to the public there for free. Perhaps other aspects of how we practice what we call bushcraft are simply removed from their access.

 

[maddave]

Or is it because we, as a community not individually, are not that welcoming, and look a bit scary with our white male predominance, penchant for knives, the woods and fire? I don't think anything is 'simples'.

Think 'Deliverance' ding a ding ding ding ding ding ding ding:theyareon

Errrrrr no?? I think bushcrafters as a "group" are some of the most friendly and welcoming people around... As for the knives etc, it's only because the media/government/police are now programming our youth to see them initially as weapons with a "nod" to being a tool, and not the other way round. "KNIFE CRIME" makes better headlines than "YOUTHS CARVE WOODEN VENUS DE MILO WITH MORAS" lol

 

[Maggot]

Errrrrr no?? I think bushcrafters as a "group" are some of the most friendly and welcoming people around... As for the knives etc, it's only because the media/government/police are now programming our youth to see them initially as weapons with a "nod" to being a tool, and not the other way round. "KNIFE CRIME" makes better headlines than "YOUTHS CARVE WOODEN VENUS DE MILO WITH MORAS" lol

I'm guessing, but I reckon you fit exactly the profile I described. White, male, a small collection of bushcraft kit with a few knives, like sleeping and being in the woods and can happily start and control a fire? Of course you find the bushcraft community welcoming, you are one of them and in the demographic.

Go and join an inner city rap and hip hop club populated by the black community, see what it feels like. Or if you now tell me you are deep in the underground R&B scene in Manchester, go and join a ladies rounders team, anywhere where you are not in the dominant demographic. It feels uncomfortable, why would you put yourself through it?

There are bigger issues around this, especially, why do black and Asian communities not take their recreation in the countryside? Go for a walk on Saddleworth more, or the Pennines, any sunny Sunday, and count the non-white faces, you'll be lucky to get into double figures. It's a shame, and maybe we as an active outdoors community should try to do our bit in addressing it.

 

[maddave]

I'm guessing, but I reckon you fit exactly the profile I described. White, male, a small collection of bushcraft kit with a few knives, like sleeping and being in the woods and can happily start and control a fire? Of course you find the bushcraft community welcoming, you are one of them and in the demographic.

Go and join an inner city rap and hip hop club populated by the black community, see what it feels like. Or if you now tell me you are deep in the underground R&B scene in Manchester, go and join a ladies rounders team, anywhere where you are not in the dominant demographic. It feels uncomfortable, why would you put yourself through it?

There are bigger issues around this, especially, why do black and Asian communities not take their recreation in the countryside? Go for a walk on Saddleworth more, or the Pennines, any sunny Sunday, and count the non-white faces, you'll be lucky to get into double figures. It's a shame, and maybe we as an active outdoors community should try to do our bit in addressing it.

I'm afraid your "reckoning" is flawed, and as this thread has the possibility of going the wrong way I'll be locking it.

 

[Tony]

I've just read all through this and thought I'd comment, although I'm not opening the thread again, I agree with MD that the thread's tone was changing and it was right to shut it down, It's great that the thread progressed in a way that enabled the mods to leave it open, but as a subject it was unlikely to stay open.

This is where I stand on the issue so there's no confusion about bcuk.
Everyone is welcome and has just as big an opportunity to participate and thrive on here as anyone else, colour, political position, sex, life experiences etc are irrelevant, they're not a decider in the registration process. There is no exclusion on bcuk unless the rules are broken, someone is a trouble maker, spamming etc. I am good friends with a number of people that are not 'white' and those that want to do bushcraft do it and those that don't do not, they have the same opportunity to participate as many others, it is not an exclusive activity but in it's nature it is inclusive, we encourage all people to get into the woods and open spaces and enjoy them.

I have not used bcuk as a political tool for other subjects that may well have merit and I don't intend to do so now, if any individuals wish to take it upon themselves to address the issues they perceive then by all means do so and good luck with it. If I were not white and I was reading this thread though, I feel like I was being singled out and I'd be less likely to join the site and participate. My personal view is that we should treat everyone the same, start off with respect, acceptance and trust for people and let them dictate if that was well placed or not, all are welcome around my fire and bcuk is part of my fire.